rank cross class abilities

For my Paladin I use the following cross class abilities. I have them in this order of availability.
Fracture (for bleeds to maintain aggro on off targets)
Bloodbath (paired with Fight or Flight for self heals)
Foresight (for an extra 20% def cooldown. i can stack with rampart if need be)
Mercy Stroke (for finishing off mobs/boss burndowns)
Stoneskin (just in case i need to use it. usually dont need it in groups)

Any change in availability (due to level sync). Any alternate ability suggestions?

As a war:

#0 Provoke
#2 Convalescence.
#63 Internal Release
#256 Featherfoot
#90k Flash

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

As a war:

#0 Provoke
#2 Convalescence.
#63 Internal Release
#256 Featherfoot
#90k Flash

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#0 Provoke
#2 Convalescence.
#63 Internal Release
#256 Featherfoot Second Wind
#90k Flash

I macro Second Wind with Unchained since they have the same timer and I'm always berserk + IR, so I get the max use of second wind. Roughly 900 - 1.2k heal.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

#0 Provoke
#2 Convalescence.
#63 Internal Release
#256 Featherfoot Second Wind
#90k Flash

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If you're going to take Second Wind over anything on that list, it should be Flash. Flash is basically worthless thanks to Overpower and SC. Featherfoot is also going to mitigate a helluva lot more damage over time than Second Wind will (a single boss auto-attack is going to hit as hard as Second Wind; if you dodge 3 auto-attacks every 4 Featherfoots, you're more than breaking even over Second Wind).

I'm guessing the OP is asking for the particular slots for the CC abilities along with the entire list. As such, I wouldn't put Provoke in the first 3 for WAR because real reason you should need Provoke is tank swapping (which won't happen without another tank around) since, if you're getting outdone on enmity before 40, chances are that Provoke isn't going to cut it (unless you honestly plan on dying during boss fights wherein you'll need it).

My order is Convalescence (strong tank CD for when you only have the weakest tank CD in the game), Internal Release (because damage is nice), Featherfoot (see Convalescence), Mantra (it's like a really weak Convalescence) or Awareness (it's like a really conditional Foresight), then Provoke. I don't see the value in Second Wind since it contributes less over time than even Mantra does, and for burst functionality, it's worth less than any of your other CDs barring Featherfoot.

As paladin, none of the warrior cross skills really shine. Foresight is ok if I got nothing left but with such a short CD on rampart, its always up. Mercy stroking an add or a conflag for a heal is cool but nothing reliable. Outside of stoneskin from CNJ, none of the cross class skills do much. I just take them to take them.

Blood Bath is nice, its added small extra hate, use it everytime when you start pulling

Foresight is extra defense added, Total physical damage reduction is roughly around 5% no matter how high your def numbers, its not completely useless

Mercy Stroke is also good for finishing off, extra dmg dealt to mobs/boss is nothing hurts

MRD cross skills is not useless after all

Blood bath is 140 enmity for the buff plus whatever you heal for times 0.05. Not likely that the sum total exceeds the enmity of a single flash. Not useless but far from useful.

5% physical DR every 2min vs. 20% total DR every 90 sec. Again not useless but nothing to write home about.

Mercy Stroke: hilarious IF/WHEN you can time the heal. Neat but not game changing.

I'd much rather get Featherfoot or Keen Flurry than any MRD skill. Contrast that with PLD skills like Convalescence or Provoke, which actually do something. PLD gets the short end by being crossed with MRD

for warrior: depends on the fight. brayflox speed runs, i use flash, conva, internal R, feather foot, provoke. coil with a single target, i use conva, Internal R, provoke, awareness, second wind. feather foot does nothing against bosses, at least not in the new turns, and don't need flash, unless you wanna use it during pacification but its kinda minimal aggro that you could go without.

cross class skills really need a revamp to make them more useful and open up more customization in fights.

Good
Provoke - Some fights aren't even possible without it. Even in fights where you don't even plan on using it, it could still save the day.
Convalescence - Just a really good ability. Perfect for when you're taking high sustained damage. Thrill of Battle + Convalescence = Super Defiance!

Okay
Featherfoot - Not guaranteed to do anything, but strong enough to save your life when it does. Low cooldown too.
Internal Release - Roughly a 1% overall DPS increase, but at least it's always guaranteed to do something.

Situational
Second Wind - While the effect is weak, it gives you a pseudo-boost to your effective HP if used to top yourself off before bursts or used in between attacks.
Mantra - Decent in the right encounters. Still does something useful in the others.

Bad
Flash - Outclassed by Overpower and Steel Cyclone. There are a few applications in end game, but not very many.
Awareness - Boss auto attacks have less than 5% chance of critting. 12.5% uptime on an ability that might not even help you, and when it does, you're still taking damage.

Useless
Haymaker - Why is this even an ability, period?!
Savage Blade - A Skull Sunder I can't even combo into. Cool.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

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I guess this can be categorized in to two: Low level (15-49) and End game (50-coil)

As far as low level goes my list still stands. Second Wind is there as a free cure and nothing more and it scales with dmg so its helpful in a pinch. I would say Flash is a necessity since its basically a free aoe enmity grab. You may say the Steel Cyclone is better, and it is, but at 5 stacks I can use IB instead. In the 15-20 dungeons flash can keep you from wasting too much tp since your only threat rotation is going to cost you 130 tp very 6 secs. Though I do agree with you that when you know how to WAR inside and out flash is not needed (though handy). T4 is an example of a place with tons of mob grabs but can be done w/o flash and good use of SC. Mantra is "helpful" if you don't have a monk but at 5% as a cross skill its weak especially when you consider that only you, as the tank, will be getting hit.


End Game:

1. Provoke
2. Convalescence
3. Internal Release
4. Second Wind
5. Mantra

Provoke, obviously you need it for end game since you'll be tank swapping. Convalescence, IR, and Mantra, I agree with you since there will always be stacking phases where your party aoe heals and 5% can help. Featherfoot I still fail to see the use for. Yes its 90 sec but I've been using it sine 2.0 and I have yet to notice a consistent dodge rate. I can't blind the boss and I honestly don't know which stats affect it, if any so feel free to correct me on that. Awareness is to niche for me to consider. I can't predict the crits from a boss and if I can predict a big hit IB does the job much better. Also I'm not sure if it was fixed but doesn't Awareness still block incoming crit heals? (need confirmation) I still stand by Second Wind as from my experience it has saved me on more than one occasion where our healer died and the other healer is having trouble keeping up.

TL;DR, You shared your opinions and I shared mine, lets do tea sometime :D

Just my 2 cents, but as a Warrior I like Flash during speed runs. When chain pulling and Overpower usage can lead to TP starvation, I'd rather have that one aoe threat skill that doesn't use TP (Cyclone doesn't, but building Wrath stacks requires either Infuriate or TP).
The rest has already been said - Voke and Conva are the ones that I really like, FF rarely feels useful, but I sometimes pop it during Unchained + Berserk + Bloodbath to bring the entire effect somewhere near a proper def CD.
Mantra is half a Conva that applies to your party, fairly weak in total effect unless the party actually needs more heals. IR is fun to use, more damage never hurts.

I like to stack Foresight and Featherfoot just to make it feel like I may have popped an actual cool-down.

The reality though is that if you took all the cross class stuff away I wouldn't really miss anything except for the 'voke, which is indispensable, and convalescence which is a really good ability.

I feel like the reason Savage Blade and Skull Sunder are available cross class is to attempt to allow some non-tank classes to have something with an enmity bonus? Like a Dragoon (or even monk) can do a bit of tanking against an add or something and skull sunder would even let him keep his job stone.

Both abilities are 100 potency on a *3 threat multiplier. While 300 pot is probably higher than the number on most damage skills, I daresay that the difference to a proper dps rotation is insignificant. Also considering that tanking an add locks out all position based skills I can't see why they would want to do that.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Second Wind is there as a free cure and nothing more and it scales with dmg so its helpful in a pinch.

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It scales with attack power, not damage, so it's buffed by Berserk and unaffected by Defiance and Unchained (though it does actually benefit from Wrath stacks). I still don't see the value given that the heal it'll provide is basically a single auto-attack every 120 seconds, and it's always better to avoid damage than to recover from it. About the only advantages that Second Wind has is that it'll affect magic damage (a pretty niche advantage given that magic attacks tend to be AoEs that barely hurt tanks or specific, predictable spikes) and that it's controllable. For those, we have a bunch of other tools at our disposal (Conv, ToB, Veng, IB) so I don't really see the point. It's not even really a significant increase in our self healing since we have Bloodbath, IB, and SP.

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I would say Flash is a necessity since its basically a free aoe enmity grab. You may say the Steel Cyclone is better, and it is, but at 5 stacks I can use IB instead. In the 15-20 dungeons flash can keep you from wasting too much tp since your only threat rotation is going to cost you 130 tp very 6 secs. Though I do agree with you that when you know how to WAR inside and out flash is not needed (though handy).

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The only reason you could possibly *need* Flash when you have Overpower and SC is if you don't know how to manage your TP consumption. 2-3 Overpowers or an SC>Infuriate>SC at the start of the fight are basically a guarantee that you'll have aggro on everything for the entire fight, even at low levels, which means that you have more GCDs to devote to Wrath stack acquisition and debuff application.

You can't even use Flash that many times as a WAR either, because of our absolutely pitiful mp pool. If you're in any situation where TP consumption is a factor, you're not going to get much out of Flash because you'll only get 3 uses before running out of mp (which means 3 uses before you have to go back to Overpower), then it'll take something like 25 GCDs for you to get enough back to cast it again.

As to "wasting" Wrath stacks on SC when you could IB, there are plenty of occasions where you don't really need the DR from IB. For speed run pulls, SC is way more useful to me than IB because I already know that the healer is going to be watching me like a hawk, and it's a helluva lot more useful to get a big hit that generates a crapton of enmity basically for free than it is to reduce my damage taken by 20% for 6 seconds (especially if the healer isn't swapping to CS when they don't need to heal).

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Featherfoot I still fail to see the use for. Yes its 90 sec but I've been using it sine 2.0 and I have yet to notice a consistent dodge rate.

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It's not supposed to be "consistent", but I definitely notice an increase in the number of occasions that I dodge while it's active as opposed to normally.

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I honestly don't know which stats affect it, if any so feel free to correct me on that.

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As far as I know, there isn't any stat in the game that affects evasion rate. DEX only affects ranged attack power, I believe, so the only way to increase your evasion is with skills (which basically just means Featherfoot).

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Also I'm not sure if it was fixed but doesn't Awareness still block incoming crit heals? (need confirmation)

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They fixed that a while back. It now only blocks crit hits (which, keep in mind, only occur on auto-attacks).

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I still stand by Second Wind as from my experience it has saved me on more than one occasion where our healer died and the other healer is having trouble keeping up.

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I still don't really see the point. On the occasions where I've seen a healer struggling, I've never seen Second Wind actually make a difference. If I need self heals, I've got IB, Bloodbath, and SP.

It should be noted that I use all of my CDs actively rather than waiting until I "need" them. Featherfoot isn't going to be a useful contributor in a single use, but, over time, it most definitely has an impact (also, you should never stack Featherfoot on top of any other CD except for ToB; if you dodge, you're completely negating the benefits of any other CD you have active so you wasted a portion of that time; the best way to use Featherfoot is to stagger it with your other CDs to try and keep at least 1 CD or IB up at all times that you're tanking so that none of them decrease the effectiveness of the other).

Flash is pretty nice IMO. 360 degree aggro move for pulling groups and using to conserve TP. Brayfox you can pull with flash and then Spam overwhelm once everything is pulled.

Useful for the first t5 pull and holding the first three snakes.

For a cross class it's a solid tool to have on your belt.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

*snip*

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I wouldn't judge Second Wind solely on the amount healed. Yeah, 550HP every 2 minutes is nothing. Featherfoot, Mantra and possibly even Awareness will grant more HP in the long run, but you can't simply crunch the numbers and decide that Second Wind isn't as good.


The value in Second Wind is in the way it delivers the HP. Unlike Featherfoot and Awareness, it gives it to you when you need it. Unlike Mantra, it will help you in the absence of a heal and can be activated in reaction to needing a heal instead of having to do it before hand. What's better? 500 HP when you need it or 1000HP whenever it feels like giving it to you?

Not topped off before a burst? One hit away from death after a burst? Second Wind basically grants you the equivalent of about 30 Vitality in these situations.

I'm currently working on Turn 9 right now, we're using a two-tank strat for the first phase so I'm required to take Ravensbeaks in DPS jewellery. The Ghost of Meracydias in the third phase are also hitting me very hard. Second Wind is really coming in handy in this fight. It has saved my life twice in the last few days of attempts (My HP dropped to an amount less than what the Second Wind healed me for seconds earlier).

One ability I don't get is Awareness. Boss auto attacks have a less than 5% chance to crit. It will crit you once every 50-60 seconds. Awareness is more likely to do nothing than it is likely to do something. When it does do something, you are still taking damage from the attack so it might not even save you.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

One ability I don't get is Awareness. Boss auto attacks have a less than 5% chance to crit. It will crit you once every 50-60 seconds. Awareness is more likely to do nothing than it is likely to do something. When it does do something, you are still taking damage from the attack so it might not even save you.

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And, to make it even less sensible, I'm pretty sure that an attack that is parried or blocked cannot score a critical hit either. When you get down to it, the chance of an individual attack scoring a critical hit on you is almost entirely negligible.

Of course, the value of Awareness isn't so much in the fact that it mitigates your incoming damage as much as it stabilizes it; while Awareness is up, the maximum potential damage you can take over an period of time is capped out much lower. It's not going to do a good job of making you take less damage, but it will do an excellent job of making sure that your incoming damage is more predictable.

People were saying it at release and it still holds true now: the only way that Awareness is going to be anything more than the absolute worst tank CD in the game is if they create some specific boss mechanic that basically *forces* you to use Awareness, such as an attack that hits as hard as DS and applies a buff that causes the next attack to be an automatic critical hit (it would also be an effective way to force a tank swap since, if it happens every minute, you'd have to swap tanks because Awareness has a 120 sec CD) or a boss that has an increased chance to score critical hits that, every time it scores one, it gets a stacking buff that increases damage by 10% for 15 seconds (the only way to get rid of those stacks is to either get really lucky or to use Awareness to become immune to crits long enough for the stacks to fall off).

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Originally Posted by Kitru

*snip*

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I would rather they completely removed Awareness from the game than introduce a mechanic that forced it to be used, being honest. Also make tanks uncrushable because being crit as a tank is pretty dumb.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

I would rather they completely removed Awareness from the game than introduce a mechanic that forced it to be used, being honest.

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Well, they could either add mechanics that force tanks to use it, or they could simply increase the crit rate on bosses so that you can actually expect to get some benefit out of it (which would require reducing the standard damage). As it stands, it's pretty much useless, which is what pretty much everyone agrees upon.

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Also make tanks uncrushable because being crit as a tank is pretty dumb.

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I, personally, don't mind being crit as a tank because it leads to a level of unpredictability in incoming damage rate which makes it more interesting to heal. The problem is less so in being crit and moreso in the fact that crits are so rare that you can go entire fights without ever being crit. If crits actually occurred more often, they would actually have to be accounted for by both the players and the devs (which also means decreasing planned spike hits so that you don't have RNG gibs).

Kitru would you mind sharing some of the sources that you have gained info on. All I have is this, which I'm pretty sure is outdated for the most part and I sometimes check the BG site for some info. You seem to have a good handle on numbers so I would like to see it as well. Idm min/maxing my play style but I do like to keep things fresh and experiment hence my stance on my choice on Second Wind. Pls and Ty.

Awareness is realllllly bad and the fact that it takes up a trait is worse. Bosses in 2nd Coil can crit and Awareness is still bad. If they want to add crit reduction to tanks it should be on gear through a stat. Call it Awareness or something.

Also for paladin cross-class in level sync I'd probably go Foresight > Fracture > Stoneskin > Whatever. If you go low enough (like Sastasha) you can slot Cure in if you feel like it as well.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I, personally, don't mind being crit as a tank because it leads to a level of unpredictability in incoming damage rate which makes it more interesting to heal. The problem is less so in being crit and moreso in the fact that crits are so rare that you can go entire fights without ever being crit. If crits actually occurred more often, they would actually have to be accounted for by both the players and the devs (which also means decreasing planned spike hits so that you don't have RNG gibs).

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Underlined is why I said as a tank. As a tank I want the smoothest possible damage income minimized as much as possible by mitigating abilities. RNG damage is the opposite of that, so I don't want it.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Kitru would you mind sharing some of the sources that you have gained info on.

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My sources are basically in game numbers. If I'm not sure on something, I go in game and check it.

As to numbers/math (outside of groups), Second Wind heals me for ~530. Mantra has the same CD, which means that it takes 10.5k healing (530 / .05) over the 6 GCDs it's active in order for the two to break even. Even though that's never really going to happen to you personally without a pair of healers spamming their big heals into you (does happen on some fights though), you still get partial returns pretty easily and, because it's a low number, it's got a lower chance of being eaten by overhealing. For every additional target you get with it though, the returns get much higher.

It's most apt to say that Second Wind contributes more to the tank from a raw hp/sec standpoint, but from an effective contribution standpoint (total benefit to the raid, with overhealing accounted for), I would still say that Mantra is going to win out in a vast majority of cases (overhealing is going to be the biggest factor most often; all it takes is your healer/s overhealing you by ~500, which can be as little as a Regen tick, soon after you use it to basically render that Second Wind wasted; because it's distributed over 15 seconds, your healers basically have to continually overheal you for Mantra to be wasted; also Mantra buffs Adloq, which means that contribution is never wasted) but that's mostly based upon personal preference/use (if you only wait til you're low enough that SW won't turn heals into overheal, you're dramatically reducing its contribution over time) and your healers. In any fight where you're going to get by significant predictable AoEs (all of the EX primals, t2, t5), though, Mantra wins outright.

Neither is a particularly impressive ability, so the argument is largely pointless because the decision is made upon preference more than performance. I take Mantra mainly because I consider that 530 heal (less that I get out of an IB and only marginally more than a couple SPs) to not be worth the slot when I could get a similar level of value for myself (reliably, that is) as well as my group.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

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(530 / .05) is 10.6k.

It's not difficult for the extra healing from Mantra to exceed the amount healed by Second Wind, but a real comparison between the two needs to be more than mathematical. Actual applications of each skill need to be considered.

Personally, I don't really see Second Wind and Mantra as "a skill that heals X damage" and "a skill that increases healing". I see it more as "a skill that increases your effective HP during a burst sequence" and "a skill that helps healers stabilize in intense healing situations". Because they serve totally different purposes, their value can't simply be compared to each other using the same metric (total HP was gained).

Mantra is good vs Rafflesia, but pretty lousy vs Melusine.
Second Wind is good vs NDD, but pretty lousy vs Rafflesia.

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Originally Posted by Rextab

For my Paladin I use the following cross class abilities. I have them in this order of availability.
Fracture (for bleeds to maintain aggro on off targets)
Bloodbath (paired with Fight or Flight for self heals)
Foresight (for an extra 20% def cooldown. i can stack with rampart if need be)
Mercy Stroke (for finishing off mobs/boss burndowns)
Stoneskin (just in case i need to use it. usually dont need it in groups)

Any change in availability (due to level sync). Any alternate ability suggestions?

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What lvl to I need to get Marauder to for Mercy Stroke?

I use:
Stoneskin
Foresight
Bloodbath

I have Raise, Protect, but they're just extras because I didn't know of any other cross skills to replace them with.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

My sources are basically in game numbers. If I'm not sure on something, I go in game and check it.

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Damn I was afraid you would say that. I do that too if I feel the need to compare gears I just hit the dummies in coerthas. Oh well I'll just have to wait for some japanese guy with a lot of time to to test skills 1000 times and post it on reddit or some other forum. Thanks anyways.

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Originally Posted by Citizen_Thom

What lvl to I need to get Marauder to for Mercy Stroke?

I use:
Stoneskin
Foresight
Bloodbath

I have Raise, Protect, but they're just extras because I didn't know of any other cross skills to replace them with.

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marauder gets mercy stroke at 26.
it's a good ability but not a necessity. the cooldown of 90s, in my opinion, is really too long to make it super useful. marauders can get it down to 40 seconds i believe. it does do a lot of damage though. it makes me feel i did something in the burndown of a boss lol.

here is the ability description.
Cast: Recast: Range: Radius:
Instant 90s 3y 0y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 200. Can only be executed when target's HP is below 20%. If delivered as the killing blow, up to 20% of your maximum HP will be restored.


raise and protect are also good in their own right. i have come across white mages lately that don't like to refesh protect so i have to do it. also it is useful while adventuring alone.

I skipped after page 1, but my personal defense for Flash still being on my bar is that for times when you need to buy an extra second or two to line up/gather adds for overpower to do the real work. The 360 degree aspect is what I use it for more than anything. Yes I know Steel Cyclone does the same, but I can hit flash once or twice as I'm moving to position, where Steel Cyclone I want to be 99% sure to hit everyone.

More applicable to speed runs, and when I do content that doesn't require that sort of gathering of mobs I do remove it, but even without being as strong as SC/Overpower and not something to rely on for hate, it still has it's uses.

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Originally Posted by Rextab

marauder gets mercy stroke at 26.
it's a good ability but not a necessity. the cooldown of 90s, in my opinion, is really too long to make it super useful. marauders can get it down to 40 seconds i believe. it does do a lot of damage though. it makes me feel i did something in the burndown of a boss lol.

here is the ability description.
Cast: Recast: Range: Radius:
Instant 90s 3y 0y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 200. Can only be executed when target's HP is below 20%. If delivered as the killing blow, up to 20% of your maximum HP will be restored.


raise and protect are also good in their own right. i have come across white mages lately that don't like to refesh protect so i have to do it. also it is useful while adventuring alone.

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I leveled MRD from 16 to 26 over the last three nights, only to find out that, yeah, that cooldown is a little long for Mercy Stroke. If it guaranteed a 20% heal, I could see that long a cool down, but being that it's conditional on the enemy's health, and that there's only a slim chance of a heal, it should probably be a 30s cooldown instead of a 90s one.

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Originally Posted by Citizen_Thom

I leveled MRD from 16 to 26 over the last three nights, only to find out that, yeah, that cooldown is a little long for Mercy Stroke. If it guaranteed a 20% heal, I could see that long a cool down, but being that it's conditional on the enemy's health, and that there's only a slim chance of a heal, it should probably be a 30s cooldown instead of a 90s one.

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It would be too large of a DPS increase at that point; if it were a guaranteed heal, it would also be too large of a heal. It's a 200 potency attack that WARs get every 40 seconds (16 GCDs), which is a 12.5 potency/GCD increase for the final burn. It might not seem like much, but it's a ~4.2% increase to your DPS for that period (WARs manage ~300 pot/GCD without factoring in damage multipliers like Maim and SE). Reducing it to 30 seconds as an additional would bring it up to 16.67 pot/GCD ~5.5% increase as an additional ability while also necessitating some significant buff for it to WARs, which means that it would provide a similar offensive benefit as the pure genertic DPS additionals (IR provides a ~1.2% increase in damage for everyone but PLD; it's slightly more for PLD) while simultaneously providing greater burst when you need it (since it's loaded on the final kill portion when you most often need the big deeps to deal with final phase mechanics) on top of healing utility.

The problem with Mercy Stroke isn't that it isn't up often enough, doesn't heal for enough, or doesn't do enough damage. The problem is that it requires such precision timing on its use to get the heal from it that the heal might as well not exist. The "fix" for this would be having it throw a debuff on the target that lasts for a tiny period (~2-3 seconds) that heals you if the target dies while it's affected. That way you'd still have to be precise in its use to get the heal but you'd actually stand a real chance of getting the heal. If the devs wanted to reward precision especially, they could reduce the debuff heal to 10% such that you get more with the kill but at least get *something* if you use it right before it dies.

I stopped even trying to time it and just see it as an offGCD DPS move.

Featherfoot really sucks in the new coil.

Maybe we can find some new data on this, but I've recorded maybe 3-4 dodges in hours of Turn 9 attempts over the past two weeks. The 15% Dodge chance on Featherfoot either does not work as advertised or bosses have above 100% hit rate and pushes most of the dodge off of the table.

In any case, I've since dropped Featherfoot in T9. I use Provoke, Convalescence, Mantra, Second Wind, Internal Release. I will pay closer attention to Featherfoot results tonight in Turns 6 and 7. (I don't tank Turn 8).

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

In any case, I've since dropped Featherfoot in T9. I use Provoke, Convalescence, Mantra, Second Wind, Internal Release. I will pay closer attention to Featherfoot results tonight in Turns 6 and 7.

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I've been dodging plenty in t6 and t7 with Featherfoot even without anyone Blinding.

Today: 31 Auto Attacks from Rafflesia. 25 Auto Attacks from Lamia Deathdancers. Parsed 0 Dodges. Extremely small sample size (I prob had FF up for about 15 AA's total) but still... 4 dodges on many, many T9 attempts (all on Golems and Dragons who can be afflicted by Ruin II).

Needs more testing but I'm probably gonna drop FF for T9 anyway. Both Mantra, SW, and IR all seem more appropriate.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

Extremely small sample size (I prob had FF up for about 15 AA's total)

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I wouldn't be surprised if the 2.2 bosses basically have a 100% hit chance so that the only time you can dodge is while they're blinded or you have Featherfoot up. It would grok with observations thus far about the rarity of dodges since you would basically only have a 15% chance to see them 16.67% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I wouldn't be surprised if the 2.2 bosses basically have a 100% hit chance so that the only time you can dodge is while they're blinded or you have Featherfoot up. It would grok with observations thus far about the rarity of dodges since you would basically only have a 15% chance to see them 16.67% of the time.

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That's what I thought it was initially, but mathematically you should dodge close to 1 attack per Featherfoot usage. Not 3 Dodges in 50+ T9 Attempts.

It almost seems like I need Featherfoot + Ruin II in order to dodge something.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

That's what I thought it was initially, but mathematically you should dodge close to 1 attack per Featherfoot usage. Not 3 Dodges in 50+ T9 Attempts.

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Haven't done t9 yet, but most of the stuff I've seen in SCoB has a really slow attack rate. We generally assume one AA every 3 seconds or so; for Featherfoot, that's 5 attacks, which is a 56% chance that you'll see a dodge. If you go slower, like 5-6 seconds (which is what I get the feeling for on Rafflesia during those parts of the fight that she's actually auto-attacking and no occupied with one of her numerous special attacks), you're only getting 2-3 attacks per Featherfoot, which means that you've got a ~30-40% chance of seeing a dodge each use.

Yeah, that's true. Plus Rafflesia casts a lot of spells and doesn't do a ton of damage to tanks in general.

In any case, this just reinstates how questionable Featherfoot is in Second Coil. The low frequency of dodgable attacks plus the fact that Warrior has more of a true Off-Tanking role and takes fewer attacks in general.

It's definitely no longer the "must-have" cross class that it was in 2.0-2.1 content.

I wish I could test this more, but we clear T6-8 so reliably now and I don't even tank T8. I know for certain that Featherfoot sucks in T9. I really like Mantra and Second Wind.