Zodiak Weapons : Are you casual content or hardcore content?

This is not a complain thread, please complain elsewhere. I just want a discuss whether this is hardcore content, casual content, or something along the line which meant as fail experiment?


If it is hardcore content, then I says that the weapon will need to be strongest or equivalent at the final form. (Most of my hardcore friends are already won T8, and on proceed to T9, they will not care this content if it is anything less than lv 115)

If it is casual content, then I says that the weapon should consume less time to obtain. Because how many casual players do you know that willingly to get Atimus and not give up mid way? All of my casual friends already give up on this, except a few. And Only hardcore friends that are near Atimus or already got Atimus, but as I said before that they plan to throw this away if it doesn't give better stat than Allagan weapon at the end.

So currently imo, this content is failing to be either good content that casual or hardcore players would be happy about.

Hardcore players would expect this to be strongest. or they will not bother.
Casual players would expect the content to consume less time. or they will not bother.
->>> SE only end up getting complained from both side.

Here is how I see it.

Zodiac weapon path - Skill Level: Low, Time Level: High
Leviathan EX weapon path - Skill Level: Moderate, Time Level: Moderate
Second Coil weapons path - Skill Level: High, Time Level: Low

If you don't want to take a skill-based path or spend a considerable amount of time on it, you don't need an i100 weapon.

I would like to believe that there is no such thing as casual content, or hardcore content...

You can choose to tackle hard content casually, and you can attack easy/tedious content at a hardcore pace...

And change that Coil content raiding time to high... Only way that's low is if you have cold ass people playing with you and you get lucky on drops. If its low, people would have had T9 weapons before I got my Animus...

And as far as I know... Only a select few got it like that...

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Originally Posted by Zaels

Here is how I see it.

Zodiac weapon path - Skill Level: Low, Time Level: High
Leviathan EX weapon path - Skill Level: Moderate, Time Level: Moderate
Second Coil weapons path - Skill Level: High, Time Level: Low

If you don't want to take a skill-based path or spend a considerable amount of time on it, you don't need an i100 weapon.

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Show me the t9 clearing group that hasn't put countless hours in coil progression.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Show me the t9 clearing group that hasn't put countless hours in coil progression.

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Skill Level: High/Mastery

all you need is T9 clear to get i115 weapon

while atma & animus questline require weeks to complete

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Show me the t9 clearing group that hasn't put countless hours in coil progression.

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He implies that Coil is not a grindfest, rather it's a skill check. Althought it does take practice, there's no forced grind like 13500 myth for books. The upgrade items are also 100% drops so there's no RNG involved.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

He implies that Coil is not a grindfest, rather it's a skill check. Althought it does take practice, there's no forced grind like 13500 myth for books. The upgrade items are also 100% drops so there's no RNG involved.

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100% drops so no RNG involved eh? Man someone should lock and close this thread. LOL

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

He implies that Coil is not a grindfest, rather it's a skill check. Althought it does take practice, there's no forced grind like 13500 myth for books. The upgrade items are also 100% drops so there's no RNG involved.

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That means every weapon drop at once, with no RNG involved in the loot? Sure, 1 drop is guaranteed, but it is not guaranteed that it is also the right drop.

The relic weapon, since it was first released has always been second rate and easier to obtain. Why would they change that formula? The relic has been so hyped up that casual players can feel accomplished when they get it. Because it's so hyped up, hardcore players want it too, for some reason, even though it's pretty obvious that it'll always be like 3rd best (at most).

I find it funny how many people ate up the hype. Sure, relic may upgrade even further in the future......when they bring more weapons that one-up it, too. Wait another patch, and you'll be doing the same thing on the same treadmill..... then again, and again, and again. The relic upgrade is simply for nostalgia value, if you ask me...

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Show me the t9 clearing group that hasn't put countless hours in coil progression.

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Still low compared to the actual grind/time it takes to get an Animus weapon. Also item level 115 vs. 100. It's still very low comparatively.

The coil weapons also include the i110 weapons that cost soldiery to buy the weathered versions of them, and the unidentified allagan tomestone. That's two different sets of weapons that involve coil, and not just the T9 weapons.

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Originally Posted by Felis

That means every weapon drop at once, with no RNG involved in the loot? Sure, 1 drop is guaranteed, but it is not guaranteed that it is also the right drop.

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No, that means the upgrade items for soldiery weapons are 100%, that are on par, or better after T8, with tidal wave and animus.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

He implies that Coil is not a grindfest, rather it's a skill check. Althought it does take practice, there's no forced grind like 13500 myth for books. The upgrade items are also 100% drops so there's no RNG involved.

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Except the part where you cast lots against 7 other players. He implies that the time taken to down content is to be disregarded, skill is time put in a game no one wakes up as god's gift to gaming.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

Still low compared to the actual grind/time it takes to get an Animus weapon. Also item level 115 vs. 100. It's still very low comparatively.

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The stats on the Animus weapon are at the stat cap. To make the Novus weapon an upgrade SE need to increase the ilevel for higher stats or give it a new set of stat types. The chance for a ilevel increase is higher, put the Novus weapon around ilevel 110. And i think there is still an upgrade planned after Novus.

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Originally Posted by Felis

That means every weapon drop at once, with no RNG involved in the loot? Sure, 1 drop is guaranteed, but it is not guaranteed that it is also the right drop.

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T9 weapons are not the only weapons you get by farming coil. The weathered weapons and the item used to upgrade them are from the second coil too. The upgrade items and the unidentified allagan tomestones are what he's talking about.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Except the part where you cast lots against 7 other players. He implies that the time taken to down content is to be disregarded, skill is time put in a game no one wakes up as god's gift to gaming.

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If you run with a static, at most, you will get your upgrade items last in line. There's still no RNG involved, you will get your drop when it's your turn, though it might take longer. RNG implies that you might never get your drop, since you're rolling against the server, as it is with T9 weapons, Levi Ex mirrors and Atmas.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Except the part where you cast lots against 7 other players. He implies that the time taken to down content is to be disregarded, skill is time put in a game no one wakes up as god's gift to gaming.

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Once you have a static group that can down the coil turns reliably, you'll get it eventually as your group obtains weapons each week. If you can clear T6-T9, that's an unID'd tomestone and a T9 weapon every week (so two weapons per week). Not to mention once you master coil it's only a matter of a couple hours invested per week to get a chance for the weapon. Also, once you put in your time learning and mastering the fights, you do not have to put in that same amount of time ever again if you want to get another weapon from coil, unlike Animus.

Animus grinding forces you to farm 12 atmas, then farm 13500 myth, kill 900 enemies, kill 27 dungeon bosses, complete 27 FATES and 27 leves per weapon. And there's no way around it.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

If you run with a static, at most, you will get your upgrade items last in line. There's still no RNG involved, you will get your drop when it's your turn, though it might take longer. RNG implies that you might never get your drop, since you're rolling against the server, as it is with T9 weapons, Levi Ex mirrors and Atmas.

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At least one person in a static is going to take 8 weeks from clearing t7 to get their weapon, this process is sped up as soon as you start clearing t9 since whoever gets high allagan weapons can pass which is why I counted t9 clears, and even that is one weapon a week which is a hard time lock on gear. Unlike levi and animus there is a hard time lock on the rate which you gear in coil, only sped up by RNG which you insist doesn't exist.

I mean this is all aside the point everyone keeps ignoring anyway that it takes time to even learn this stuff, and I wasn't seeing weathered weapons floating around at near the rate that animus weapons were appearing. You keep on treating skill like a nebulous concept you just walk in with and walk out with a weapon, and not a progression grind like any other flavor of grind.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

At least one person in a static is going to take 8 weeks from clearing t7 to get their weapon, this process is sped up as soon as you start clearing t9 since whoever gets high allagan weapons can pass which is why I counted t9 clears, and even that is one weapon a week which is a hard time lock on gear. Unlike levi and animus there is a hard time lock on the rate which you gear in coil, only sped up by RNG which you insist doesn't exist.

I mean this is all aside the point everyone keeps ignoring anyway that it takes time to even learn this stuff, and I wasn't seeing weathered weapons floating around at near the rate that animus weapons were appearing. You keep on treating skill like a nebulous concept you just walk in with and walk out with a weapon, and not a progression grind like any other flavor of grind.

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I'll just say 'Yes' since you obviously only hear what you want to hear.

Well for me this is for casual, i will explain.

Ok you need lot of time (i have lot of time and i am only at my second book, because i do one every week, to prevent a burnout :P )

But why this is casual, you don't need any extreme content or thing who are very hard to done, you can't be blocked, you can have a animus and be ilvl 60, this is possible, the only thing you need is farm mytho, and doing some dungeon and kill some mob, fate etc. So yes this content has been done for the guys who has been stuck at titan for month.

This is sad but this is the truth i'm sure.

The way I see it, any time you implement a big long elaborate quest to obtain a major piece of equipment (such as a high level weapon), then that should be the best in slot in the end.

Comparatively an item dropped by a boss should not be as good or better. You can scream "coil" all you want, but until Coil is a 40+ man dungeon that only the top 1% of players can clear, AND only 1 weapon drops per week, then that weapon should not trump an epic/relic weapon.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

Skill Level: High/Mastery

all you need is T9 clear to get i115 weapon

while atma & animus questline require weeks to complete

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Next Stage after Animus will be probably 115 which comes in 2.28 iirc?!, so idk seems quite equal to High Allagan ( Stats are unknown so leave that out ). Also, you have to get to T9 first, which technically will take longer for most groups than getting Animus and then the Weapon you want have to actually drop.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bl97wQmCcAAYEO8.jpg

Was somewhere in a strat 9 Vid.. don't remember where it is from, but i would guess Famitsu. May someone can confirm. From left to right;

Relic | Allagan | Weathered | Primal

Dunno why people complain about the grind. Most ASKED for something to do.

People only compare time to get "Atimus" weapon here. Although, in my point for this thread. I meant as "Zodiak" weapon. not just Atimus.
Because all of my friends who is getting "Atimis" doesn't care level 100 weapon. (they consider it as just disposable, since they can win T7 T8 and get lv 110), They only get "Atimus" because they expect completed version of Zodiak to be level 120 and strongest in this expansion.

Relic = 80
Zenith = 90
Atimus = 100
Nova = 110
Zodiak = 120.

By the time you get to "Zodiak", it will cost a lot more time than T9 practice. Therefore, SE will really piss off hardcore players if Zodiak is not at least lv 120. SE already piss off casual players tho, because they are the initial group that complaining right now.


P.S. most of my hardcore friends are JP from 1.0, and they all think that Zodiak weapon full upgrade will be strongest. I don't know why most people in english forum seem to predict the different?

why does zodiak have to be strongest in "this expansion" why cant t be strongest PERIOD? I mean id hate to do all that work only for even if it is strogest right now... something in a new expansion will be better.

look at relic in FFXI, it was th strongest weapon you can get for YEARS and as such i ttook a LONG time to get and was a timesink (just as relic in XIV s but without the benefit of being the best when you finish), sure you can say in XI mythic and or abyssea empyrean weapons were better than relic, however even if that IS true mythic and empyrean took JUST AS MUCH TIME to obtain as relic did so they EARNED being better, getting mythic or empyrean wasnt as easy as "just take 30 mins killing this one boss everyweek or has a weekly lockout and you have a much better weapon if he drops it"

Also at some point im sure zodiak will be able to be upgraded further I mean did yosh not say relic would ALWAYS be the strongest in game? if thats the case that means EVERY TIME he releases a better weapons hes gonna have to upgrade relic/atma/animus/zodiak to compensate for that and keep his word

I don't view it as either OP. Zodiak weapon is just a as much of a time investment as any other and the stats given are entirely subjective to what you are trying to achieve.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Except the part where you cast lots against 7 other players. He implies that the time taken to down content is to be disregarded, skill is time put in a game no one wakes up as god's gift to gaming.

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Which doesn't change anything.

You open 2 chests and on average 2 pieces of ilvl110 are dropped. It's guaranteed who gets what and how that is split doesn't matter.

This spans between all of the second coil of bahamut which also drops sands and oil. That's literally 8+ pieces of high end gear per week if on farm.

Soldiery consists of farming soldiery for ilvl100 gear which you have weekly caps and you have to farm 2 to 3 weeks for a couple pieces of gear. So you're capped to 1 piece of gear per week or 3 weeks depending on what you are trying to obtain.

Animus is a straight up grind you can do none stop until you complete it. 1 piece.

The difference is when you min-max the second coil of bahamut is where you're gonna find 80-90% of your gear. The current Soldiery helps out with 2 pieces and the other upgrades are minimal job stat increases (vit + job specific).

So I don't know what kind of conclusion you're trying to draw and explain because as far as I can tell I don't see any reason behind it outside of an ilvl complain.

I think Atma/Animus part (of the Zodiak Quest line) are just time consuming. There is no difficulty its luck and grinding. I hope the Novus quest requires some difficulty and not just a luck/time grind that we have now. I also believe that Relic weapons should at some point become the best weapons in the game. I hope at some point we will have to do some type of Attestation Farming, Even if its behind a lockout.

I don't see why Relic has to be the "Casual" weapon. Why can't they tie Relics to Coils or another End Game Content. And then have these primal weapons be for the "Casual".

Atma weapon farming = Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1 Tab 1

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Originally Posted by Alise

This is not a complain thread,
Complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain, complain.

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Anyways... I'm probably a casual player; having a partner, baby, job, school, etc... But I prefer challenging content. Time consuming ≠ challenging, but something that is challenging can take a lot of time and that's okay by me.