Levi X and MNK

I've been farming Levi X on MNK a lot lately. I usually end up like 4th on the enmity list on the tail, and I more than pull my weight on adds. That's fine, I could probably do a little better, but GL3 management is next to impossible, and unless I'm mistaken DRGs and BRDs have a much easier time turning "on" their dps mechanics.

I feel like I am killin' it on spumes, I usually do a TwSn buffed Demo and ToD on the spume I am near to start with, shoulder tackle over across the platform, use DK+TrSk+Demo+ToD on the next, run to the adjacent spume without wasting any time on my GCD, do DK+TwSn+Demo+ToD on that one, then I'm back to the first, DK+TrSk+Demo>high DPS rot with BFB+IR and using my off-GCDs until I decimate that one, reapplying demo on Spume #2 when I know its about to go. When my primary target is down, I reapply Demo+Fracture (as it won't last the duration of ToD) then pop over to the other set of Spumes if they are still up and either get 2 sets of Demo/ToD ticking, or apply what I can (sometimes its ToD+Frac on each one if I am coming over with bad rotation timing in terms of being able to apply a Demo) to the remaining 2 spumes.

Two questions for good MNKs who have farmed this:

- Am I right in assuming that its going to be hard for me to top the chart as a MNK (on levi, specifically) in this fight assuming my party members are comparably geared and skilled due to the nature of movement, GL stacks, etc? Or am I sucking and need to improve my Cool Down management on that fight?

- Am I right to spread my DoTs across accessible Spumes, or should I single target burn the crap out of one single spume and then move onto the next, until I know I won't be in contact with them (i.e. obviously its best to apply ToD/Demo to every spume that's still up during spinning dives, then touch what I can while dodging)?

Sorry for the long winded-ness, but it really pissed me off when a BRD said he parsed "much higher" than me yesterday : (

In our farm group, it looks like BRD/DRG>MNK>BLM.
BRD and DRG are kinda close but usually the bard tends to parse slightly higher on average as long as there is no singing involved. Our MNKs do fairly well and are not that far off either. BLMs are somewhat low to the point that we have stopped running it with more than 1 BLM at a time.

We have no SMNs in our group but i feel they might be top dps in this fight.

While I cannot offer any advice on MNK, I would say not to worry about it too much. BRDs and SMNs are pretty much downright unfair on this fight.

Yeah, I have a fun time keeping up with bards as DRG, SMNs just kill it though.

I'm personally not sure about the "dot up all of the spumes method". It's certainly possible to go and do that without losing Greased Lightning, but every moment you spend not attacking a spume is a moment you're doing less damage, regardless of dots you already have up. The arena is large enough that you'll be doing a lot of running.

A very good thing to do to keep your DPS up in the fight though is to make sure all three of your dots are refreshed right before a dive phase. All dots keep ticking and doing damage even while he is untargetable.

As bad as it is to say...I personally cringe every time I run Levi EX with a MNK (normally, I heal the fight). They're just so gimped in the fight...aren't enough good MNK that can do the fight well.

the only way that i'm able to keep GL 3 is to push levi thru phase (during the first half of the fight, meaning from the start to first yellow spume. He only jump/drive once, the initial one) this allow my party to skip 2 drive and keep my GL3.
this is really difficult to do tho as it require every DPS to puch the boss. for the spume DPS i like to focus one by one. The last thing i want is to have more than 2 spume goes off at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

I'm personally not sure about the "dot up all of the spumes method". It's certainly possible to go and do that without losing Greased Lightning, but every moment you spend not attacking a spume is a moment you're doing less damage, regardless of dots you already have up. The arena is large enough that you'll be doing a lot of running.

A very good thing to do to keep your DPS up in the fight though is to make sure all three of your dots are refreshed right before a dive phase. All dots keep ticking and doing damage even while he is untargetable.

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I never will have any point in time where i am doing nothing from a GCD stand point, the time it takes to run between 2 spumes near to each other is less than a fully stacked GL3 GCD, as long as you are moving as you are applying the previous skill. For the far ones, there is time to use 2 Shoulder tackles in each spume phase, which I use to get between those distances. So from that standpoint, there is no dps wasted.

And Yes i reapply all 3 of my dots as Levi does Tidal Roar or whatever that group-wide AE is so that they are all ticking during dives.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

As bad as it is to say...I personally cringe every time I run Levi EX with a MNK (normally, I heal the fight). They're just so gimped in the fight...aren't enough good MNK that can do the fight well.

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That's what I am fearing. I am definitely holding my own against other DPS classes, but I feel like maybe I should just bring a different class in to DPS when I can.

P.S. Why are people saying BLMs are bad on this fight? I have an i90 BLM I do turn5 with and I can't see how this would be tougher than Titan HM to DPS on?

BLM is not bad it just SMN is OP on single target xP + Multi DoT on spume

I keep up with other DPS just fine on MNK and often top the chart.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

I keep up with other DPS just fine on MNK and often top the chart.

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No offense intended, but: Nice job man, but that's not helpful at all.

Here are some tips i would like to share :

- Dont start with perfect balance , stand in the middle of the platform to reach the head fast and use it after the first body slam so you are guaranteed to keep GL3 on . Use dragon kick, twin Snakes , demolish + touch of death on the head, shoulder tackle the tail Dragon kick , double dots again.
- Howling first + innerrelease combo at the spume near the tail . This way it hit tail + spumes> more dmg .
- The tail is the rear side of the boss , to be able to crit bootshine.
- Spume phase : priority with dotting spume with Demolish, but dont use touch of death if the spume not lasting long . (example ToD = 30 sec duration , Spumes dies in 10 sec means you applied 1/3 of the dmg of ToD , not worth using it )
- use shoulder tackle wisely. Keep the dmg ongoing, never walk to the other side without shoulder tackle.

I often manage to be on the top of the dps list.

If you have the DPS to push phases for the first half, you can keep GL3 through spumes easily - sometimes clear through first SP.
Don't chase after melee Sahagin if they pop on the opposite side of the ship; either let tank pull to your side or wait for them to arrive in the middle with ranged. The less time you spend hoofing it, the more time you have to punch something.
When you finish off mage Sahagin, turn your attention to the head first. Apply ToD/Demo before shoulder tackling back to the tail.
Insist on melee LBing either Levi or the second mage sahagin. Many PTs like to drop meteor on the spumes, but a competent team of i90 can bust them up easily. This preserves GL3 for the transition as well.
Use Shoulder Tackle to avert the sliding and re-engage spumes quickly.

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- Am I right to spread my DoTs across accessible Spumes, or should I single target burn the crap out of one single spume and then move onto the next, until I know I won't be in contact with them (i.e. obviously its best to apply ToD/Demo to every spume that's still up during spinning dives, then touch what I can while dodging)?

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The party should focus fire. Makes cures easier and gives tanks a chance to invest their own DPS in the nearest spume. Sure, ranged doods have their little DoT tricks, but that ultimately benefits DPS on a single target. In many cases, you'll kill a spume in <15s so it doesn't warrant a melee DoT at all.

I would also not use enmity as a reliable metric for DPS.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I never will have any point in time where i am doing nothing from a GCD stand point, the time it takes to run between 2 spumes near to each other is less than a fully stacked GL3 GCD, as long as you are moving as you are applying the previous skill. For the far ones, there is time to use 2 Shoulder tackles in each spume phase, which I use to get between those distances. So from that standpoint, there is no dps wasted.

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You may not be wasting GCDs, but you are wasting auto-attacks anytime you don't have shoulder tackle. Don't underestimate them; they're over 1/3 of MNK dps. It could even be close to half, but I haven't done any measuring of that lately.

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Originally Posted by LoneWhiger

Dont start with perfect balance

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This should go without saying, but I see so many MNKs do this. Makes me want to throw myself into the ocean. Or maybe that's just the hysteria.

Coincidence?

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

P.S. Why are people saying BLMs are bad on this fight? I have an i90 BLM I do turn5 with and I can't see how this would be tougher than Titan HM to DPS on?

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Probably has to do with there being no opportunities to AOE anything. One group I was running with that seemed to have pretty exceptional DPS (we were pushing phases pretty frequently) the BRD was VB/WB multiple spumes and SMNs were multi-dotting them. Anytime you're constantly doing damage to more than one mob at a time it's really going to skew the results. If people were doing as I do on BLM and just focus on one mob at a time then I'm sure they'd fall in line with what I'm doing.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

P.S. Why are people saying BLMs are bad on this fight? I have an i90 BLM I do turn5 with and I can't see how this would be tougher than Titan HM to DPS on?

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it's not that blms are bad at leviathan, but other jobs (drgs (maybe, not 100% sure), bards, and especially summoners) will do better than them if played properly

One way to keep gl3 is at the beginning of the fight, if you end your combo on leviathan as he swims away to body slam with Snap punch or demolish (Usually accomplished by engaging same time as tank and going all out, can still fit a ToD, I hit GL3 right as he swims), and you slide into the head with PB on you will keep GL3 as the stacks are just about to wear off when you hit him, so with PB I Demolish again, Dragon kick, twin snakes, shoulder tackle to tail and get last Dragonkick and demolish on Tail.

Also, The head pops about 2-3 seconds before the tail, so sliding into it will net you more damage, and dragon kick on levi's head helps damage on the main tank as its all magic damage. Demolish only loses 40 potency from the side (obv can't hit back of levi's head), leaving you with 310 potency still, so my usual rotation on levi and tail without PB is start at head to get dragon kick and both dots on it. Dragon kick, twin snakes and ToD don't lose any damage on head, and demolish still stomps on snap punch damage even at the side, then shoulder tackle to the tail to get DoT's on it as well. I also use PB after every big phase change, like the rails fall off, I pop it as I slide back towards the head on bodyslam, and during last add on slide to kill him fast. I top most runs as monk.

I had this video unlisted for quite a while, its not a very good quality, but maybe it will help. I had toned down my quality and forgotten so I had not shown this video, but it's mostly what I do on monk in Levi. This is an early video, so there are some refinements I made to rotations and I messed up a few times, but it's still a good show of the PB thing I do at the start, and other various things like hitting head first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCuPhM6qpw0

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Originally Posted by hamsteak

it's not that blms are bad at leviathan, but other jobs (drgs (maybe, not 100% sure), bards, and especially summoners) will do better than them if played properly

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I have also topped plenty as BLM, it usually comes back to bad BLM's or better other DD's, BLM can top just fine. Hell, a lot of BLM still don't know that Manawall will block reflect damage, and ignore dotting the tail. Also works well when you have succor and won't take much damage soon. I find BLM one of the easiest to do well in Levi.

If the team can push levi through the phases I enjoy monk and can actually do some DPS...
As Monk I easily stay second in DPS only beaten by Summoner.
I prefer to tank Levibeetus, for tanks this fight is kinda like Titan HM 2.0 you can read the forums while you tank it.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

No offense intended, but: Nice job man, but that's not helpful at all.

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What do you want me to say? You often drop GL3, big deal. Everyone else gets disconnects as well. Just do your rotation properly and use your buffs. If you wanna be on top, then DoT both the head and tail and minimize run time with tackle.

Have you ever seen a Monk on top of the enmity chart for ANY Extreme Primal (does not include Thornmarch)? If youve been top, your other dps is *more than likely* trash or have died, resetting their enmity entirely

Monks put in hella work on the adds and Gyres in Levi ex. It has its uses. Also please note that Leviathan's tail does count as its Back. Knowing this will help maximize your DPS.


And yes, I'm prepared to get a lot of hate from the first statement

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Originally Posted by MrDiezel

Have you ever seen a Monk on top of the enmity chart for ANY Extreme Primal (does not include Thornmarch)? If youve been top, your other dps is *more than likely* trash or have died, resetting their enmity entirely
.........
And yes, I'm prepared to get a lot of hate from the first statement

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Well, I agree the Primals are generally designed in a way that doesn't agree with Monks (due to transitions and monk ramp up). Coil is where Monk will always shine more, so that's fine.

However firstly,Titan (HM and EX) favors Monk more than the rest. I think a monk should be top or close to it for that. I think Dragoons are the only ones who can beat Monk solidly there.
Secondly, every class but Monk has access to enmity reduction. Why do you say it like death is the only way to reduce enmity? Either that or you're getting completely stomped by the rest dps-wise that those aren't a factor.

I'm always second enmity on the tail. But that's because the Dragoon and Bard also attacking it use Elusive Jump and Quelling Strikes respectively. Though to be fair, I usually beat the Dragoon but not the Bard. The Bard should be beating me, this is true. But you can be losing in dps and top on hate and really...you should be if they're using Quelling at all.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Titan (HM and EX) favors Monk more than the rest.

Secondly, every class but Monk has access to enmity reduction.

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1. I dont come across a lot of DPS who use enmity reducers who play well. this requires tank to be on his ish, and DPS to be smart. But you are right, Enmity Reducers are definitely a factor. And im not watching all players to see when they Elusive Jump/Quelling Strikes

2. I disagree with Titan Ex at least being in favor for Monk. Most monks give up Flank damage to stay stacked with dps, Landslides must be avoided, WOTL must be avoided, DPS in Adds can be cut due to Bomb/landslide pattern and whether or not tank moves remaining add out of AoE, and there are placement requirements for other bomb patterns. so i would also have to give that fight to a bard. monk/drg should excel during Heart Phase, though.

you do NOT give up flank in Titan Ex, at least I never give up mine. you do flank on right side and ask everybody else to dodge plume to the left side (most ppl dodge it to the left anyway). u can still hit titan during landslide, the gap is big enough or run to the MT as he never get LS target. you can dps the bomb to keep your GL3 up if you have to get away form boss. technically, the only place to lose GL is when earthen fury is cast, otherwise if you time it right Gl3 can be kept.

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Originally Posted by Remn

technically, the only place to lose GL is when earthen fury is cast, otherwise if you time it right Gl3 can be kept.

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Nope, technically, you can keep GL3 through earthen fury as well if you have him jump right at the circle bomb. You can hit the center bomb before it explodes and hit titan again when he lands to keep your GL up. Titan doesn't "favor" Monk per se. There's a learning curve but once you learn it, there's nothing in that fight that could hamper your abilities to deal damage. A bard would obviously have an easier time as they're both range and mobile but a good monk will top the charts easily.

what in the world... no.

if you're giving up flanks to stack, you're not doing things correctly. i have never been anything besides #1 in titan hm/ex, and it's not difficult to be out dpsing everyone else...

On average I see most monks dropping GL stacks too often in those fights, and its unfortunate and not a good representation of the class, but they need to learn to abuse timings and opportunities given in the encounters. The bombs in titan ex are free GL stack retention punching bags. If you learn the fight well enough, you will be able to time out attacks to maintain gl stacks as well throughout most of the fight. And even then, PB usage can be used as recovery to ensure you have as much uptime of gl3 as possible.

try the encounter, learn the encounter, practice the encounter -> you will learn how to maximize your potential in said encounter

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Nope, technically, you can keep GL3 through earthen fury as well if you have him jump right at the circle bomb. You can hit the center bomb before it explodes and hit titan again when he lands to keep your GL up. Titan doesn't "favor" Monk per se. There's a learning curve but once you learn it, there's nothing in that fight that could hamper your abilities to deal damage. A bard would obviously have an easier time as they're both range and mobile but a good monk will top the charts easily.

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your Right >< but then again that require your team to time when you gonna break the heart. most of my group break the thing b4 the circle bomb spawn ;S

SMN and BRD (and BLM to a lesser extent) have big advantages on Levi so don't get too discourage if they beat you. However, it is possible for MNK to beat them. The only time you should be using Lightning is when Levi dives. You should be attacking something at all times except for when there is nothing to attack, this is important, lost of uptime is the biggest bane of melee when it comes to DPS. DoTing all sprumes could be a good idea if you can do so without losing a global to travel time; however, I found that it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Also, it is possible to DoT both head and tail without sacrificing a global. Its kinda of pain but if you wanna squeeze as much DPS as possible, go for it.

Also, use parse. Enmity counter is not that great of a way to assess DPS. Even though there are currently no parser that is 100% accurate, it is still a lot better than using the enmity counter.

If you cannot beat other equally geared jobs in primal fights, then I'm sorry but you're just not that good. I can't think of a single primal fight where MNK should be losing except to a good SMN on levi and in Gaurda EX if you are forced to stay away from double wheels. Remember, keep attacking, this is key. If ever you find yourself forced to not attack, think of how you can make it possible for you to keep attacking. Yes, sometimes this mean you will have to take risks, but if you aren't willing to take risk to maximize your DPS, why not just play Bard?

Summoner is undisputed best dps on this fight. Honestly summoner is overall OP.

HOWEVER! there is a way to keep GL throughout most of the fight. To do so you need to push phases. You can go to the first 2h and only get one set of dives.