Summoner: Advanced Mechanic Testing

While many Summoner BiS builds promote Crit and Det, it's strange that SE seems to push Crit/Spell Speed in the BiS weapons.

Since Spell Speed doesn't benefit the DoTs (other than a slight increase to application) and because many of the Summoner skills are instant cast, there doesn't seem to be much benefit to Summoner itself outside of a lowered ReCast time.

Looking at the stats from a pet perspective.

- Spell Speed lowers Recast time of GCD spells including the Pet attacks

- Enhanced Pet Actions when proc'd increases both the Master and the Pets Spell Speed

So by stacking Spell Speed does it decrease a pet's recast time on GCD skills - YES
Can you lock in the increased speed by using Spur while the Spell Speed proc is up. - NO
Can you put your pet into hyper mode if Selene uses Fey Glow while your Spell Speed proc is up and then lock it in using Spur (+50% Spell Speed) - DEFINITELY NOT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE

So even though the Enhanced Pet Action when proc'd increases the Masters Spell Speed stat you can't lock the new stats onto the pet using Spur or Re-Summoning.

So BiS gear with Spell Speed
Spell Speed - 458
Crit - 564
DET - 240
Acc - 486

4% chance to get Spell Speed Buff on each attack by the Pet (21% Crit x20% Proc Chance)

So ~25 attacks to proc the Speed Buff (~70 Seconds)
Direct Increase in Pet DPS based on your Spell Speed Stat (about 5% for duration of buff @ 8 seconds)

Spell Speed Proc should drop the pet to a 2.7GCD on their main attack. With BiS Spell Speed (+Buff)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BiS with Crit/DET
Spell Speed - 430
Crit - 503
DET - 299
Acc - 490

3% chance to get Spell Speed Buff on each attack by the Pet (15% Crit x20% Proc Chance)

So ~33 attacks to proc the Speed Buff (~92 Seconds)
Direct Increase in Pet DPS based on your Spell Speed Stat (about 5% for duration of buff @ 8 seconds)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ARR 2.2
Comparing the two best gear sets with accuracy capped ~490

564 Crit and 240 DET is equal to 485 Crit and 311 DET - so it might be better to have slightly better chance
to proc the Speed Boost to increase pet DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Can you lock in the increased speed by using Rouse while the Spell Speed proc is up.
Can you put your pet into hyper mode if Selene uses Fey Glow while your Spell Speed proc is up and then lock it in using Rouse (+50% Spell Speed)

---

Spell speed stats do affect pets, and Garuda is unique in that he benefits off of his own spell speed proc (chance after a critical hit).

Apparently they do not, as with 405 spell speed (+60 something from gear) my Garuda still has a 3.00s recast on wind blade....

To answer your question though, you cannot lock in the proc buff by using rouse-- that would be broken because if it were chained every minute (rouse) it would turn Garuda or Selene into a machine gun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xxalucard

Spell speed stats do affect pets, and Garuda is unique in that he benefits off of his own spell speed proc (chance after a critical hit).

To answer your question though, you cannot lock in the proc buff by using rouse-- that would be broken because if it were chained every minute (rouse) it would turn Garuda or Selene into a machine gun.

---

Thank you very much for the information.

That's what I would like to test. Since Rouse is suppose to lock the pet stats in at the "owners current value". I doubt the effect would stack each time it is used, because as you say, that would be "broken".

What I do want to see is if: Summoner Skill Speed 500 - Enhanced Pet Proc + 20% - Summoner Skill Speed Stat is now actually changed to 600.

Activate Rouse - Pet Skill Speed is now locked in at 600.

So if the pet skill speed proc'd again afterwards - the Summoner Skill Speed would only go to 600 again, which if you popped Rouse again, it would only lock in at 600.

It would be interesting for Scholar if it did work that way as with new gear you can reach 530 Spell Speed with food. If you use Fey Glow with the Spell Speed proc and Rouse you could lock your pet in at almost 800 Spell Speed.

Food and potions do not affect pet stats (even with Rouse).

Selene + spell speed proc can actually raise your SS to ridiculous levels so for SCH it might be worth stacking SS, however, they benefit much more from Crit + Det stacking so...SS is just really underwhelming for ACN jobs at the moment. BLM and WHM builds take better advantage of it.

Very small update. If anyone is interested in testing as well.

Pet stats are taken from your current gear, not your actual stats. As such any changes you make to your stats which aren't gear related (food buffs, potions, procs, etc) have no effect on your pet.

See edited post. Spell speed from gear is not affecting Garuda's recast timer on Wind Blade. Bug?

*edit* DEFINITELY A BUG-- the spell speed proc NO LONGER AFFECTS GARUDA and his Wind Blade recast is always 3.00s with a constant cast time of 1.00s

i suggest someone makes a thread addressing this

I have just examined garuda actual spell speed to confirm whether the myth regarding summoners stats reflection is true or not. The result of my video-based analysis was consistent with what xxalucard said, or in other words, the myth was wrong.

I recently have started using SMN for the Coil turn 7 and saw some summoner's guides. Some guides and forum threads in English and Japanese said that the spell speed of the summoner also decreases the cast and recast of the garuda. I suppose the sources of this myth are:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...mmoner-A-Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDIvsOzhzmU

I think the original speculation regarding spellspeed reflection itself was reasonable because the WoW pet system uses this idea. However, the result of my experiment has shown the idea was wrong.

[Methodology]
I used movie recording software with a time stamp recording option. After the recording, I reviewed the movie frame by frame.

Software:
AmaRecCo (one of the most popular videogame movie recording software in Japan)
Settings:
Framerate 60Hz, AMV3 codec, Timestamp active

* Time stamp accuracy: According to my WoW raiding experience, the timestamp of amarecco completely corresponds to the timestamp of the raw combat log (wow combatlog timestamp resolution is 10-millisecond).

[Result]
The cast time and recast time of garuda's Wind Blade and Aerial Slash was completely static. The following are examples:

SSPD 518
0 (ms) "Aerial Slash" cast starts (the frame the cast bar firstly appears)
2832 "Aerial Slash" cast ends (the frame the cast bar disappears)
28632 "Aerial Slash"'s cooldown ends (the frame the cooldown seconds shown on the tooltip disappears)
SSPD 351
0 (ms) "Aerial Slash" cast starts
2866 "Aerial Slash" cast ends
28665 "Aerial Slash"'s cooldown ends

SSPD 518
0 (ms) 1st "Wind Blade" cast starts
950 1st "Wind Blade" cast ends
99401 30th "Wind Blade" cast ends
SSPD 351
0 (ms) 1st "Wind Blade" cast starts
967 1st "Wind Blade" cast ends
99367 30th "Wind Blade" cast ends

* no spell speed buff procs during the tests
* the range between the garuda and the target is consistent (A separate test changing the range has also been conducted and shown the range has no effect)

Actually the remaining seconds for recast is shown on the tooltip (the tooltip is shown by mouseovering the actionbar icon). As for Wind Blade, the number always starts from '3'. Considering the fact that such remaining seconds shown in-game are always rounded-style in FF14, the recast of Wind Blade is consistently 3.0 seconds.


[To be addressed further]
Although the cast and the recast of the pet spells were shown to be consistent, the interval between the recast-up and next-cast seemed rather fluctuating, somehow. While the cast and the recast have resulted to have 30ms error, the intervals have approximately 100ms error. This interval fluctuation was likely not to correlate the summoner's spellspeed and the garuda's critically-hit incidences, and other possible factors. I suppose that this fluctuation has ever misled the result of previous examinations including the youtube movie referred above. (or hidden change was applied through patch 2.1 or 2.2 maybe)

I have just found a previous pet spellspeed examination report regarding Scholar's fairie in the Japanese healer subforum.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/147237

Reviewing the thread, the system mechanics of pet spellspeed have changed a few times through previous patches.

Patch 2.0
Tooltip: static (unaffected by summoner's spellspeed)
Actual: unknown

Patch 2.1~2.15
Tooltip: modified (affected by summonner's spell speed)
Actual: modified

Patch 2.16 (at the time of the posts of the thread referred)
Tooltip: static
Actual: modified

Patch 2.2
Tooltip: static
Actual: modified

EDITED: Mechanic in 2.2 is the same as 2.16

Nice information Hartack. That's a neat way to test the cast\recast time and definitely better than a stopwatch.
I guess the deviation is what led me to think there was a difference with the spell speed. It seems it's just a visual difference based on server latency most likely.

So maybe Crit and DET is still great for Summoner.

as someone pointed out earlier, this is current either bugged or changed (without a patch note to notify us) and does not alter garuda, it did, however, change the cast time before 2.2 (maybe 2.21, i didnt pay close enough attention) and that was indicated by the tooltip of our garuda-egi's skills also.

on a side note, it is spur and not rouse that changes our pets stats last i checked, but i'll have to double check.

EDIT: just double checked and it is spur that resets stats and not rouse

I think things regarding spellspeed now be made clear.

I would like to examine crit and det effect on the pet quantitatively if there is a chance. (or waiting for seeing a report from others)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hartack

I think things regarding spellspeed now be made clear.

I would like to examine crit and det effect on the pet quantitatively if there is a chance. (or waiting for seeing a report from others)

---

That would be helpful. I haven't seen any Pet stat testing especially on how much DET effects their damage/healing.

I'm still a bit confused as to why SE picks Spell Speed for Summoner if there is no bonus to the pets or bonuses to DoTs (that we know of).

A preliminary result of my experiment for crit effect on garuda is abit inconceivable. I'm now reviewing the data and checking the validity.

[Method]
Log Parser: ACT
Target: LV1 Target Dummy in Summerford (I dunno the exact English name)
*I used the most north one for the low crit attempt and the most south one for the high crit profile. (Both are lv1)

[Low Crit]
Stats Profile:
INT 309, Hit 368, Crit 341, Det 230, Sspd 341
Garuda's Wind Blade:
Swing 10733, Crit 1539
Probability:
14.3 +- 0.6%

[High Crit]
Stats Profile:
INT 511, Hit 434, Crit 503, Det 273, Sspd 451
Garuda's Wind Blade:
Swing 4403, Crit 351
Probability:
8.0 +- 0.7%

If someone knows any previous report for pet crit, it is very appreciated if the url link is provided. I have not searched information about SMN so much in the past, since my main class is not SMN.

The help for data collection will be required. it took 10 hours for 10000 swings...

Further research strongly suggests that garuda stats are snapshotted when summoned (like wow temporal pet in the WotLK and Cata)

I'm now examining whether the snapshotted stats are affected not only by gears but also by temporal buffs. At this time, I suppose it seems that the snapshotted stats are contributed only from gears.

Maybe, spellspeed things have to be reexamined... I remember I did not resummon garuda during the tests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

- Pet stats are set upon summon as well as when Rouse is used (Based on player stats)

---

Actually, I have overlooked (and misunderstoodd) the Judge's and Zamii's post. I feel ashamed so much!

Anyway, I could sufficiently collect the data for pet crit formula estimation. The garuda's base crit was different from master's base crit (5.3%) and the converting formula was also different.

Crit 341 (Summoner's Crit is 5.3%)
Swing 10092, Crit 848
Probability: 8.4 +- 0.5%

Crit 471 (Summoner's Crit is 14.4%)
Swing 10733, Crit 1539
Probability: 14.3 +- 0.6%

Crit 503 (Summoner's crit is 16.6%)
Swing 5000, Crit 775
Probability: 15.5 +- 0.8%


Approximated formula is:

Pet Critical Rate = 0.0443 x Summoner's Crit - 6.6745

* Summoner's Crit Rate = 0.0697 x Crit - 18.437 (from BLITZBALL)

I reexamined and confirmed that pet spellspeed are also contributed by master's spellspeed. It seems it works in the same manner as 2.16 (tooltip is unmodified but actual cast and recast are modified). I struck through some of my previous posts that was wrong.

Fortunately, my embarrassing struggle have left me the data collection and the neat way for analyzing. I will use them to reanalyze pet crit and spellspeed. (I updated pet crit information above).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hartack

Actually, I have overlooked (and misunderstood) the Judge's and Zamii's post. I feel ashamed so much!

---

I hope you don't actually feel ashamed. You came up with a brilliant method for testing.

I'm looking forward to more of your testing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zamii

EDIT: just double checked and it is spur that resets stats and not rouse

---

That's good to know. I never thought to verify that it was Spur over Rouse. Guess it would be easy to check to see if the pet's HP changed by swapping for more VIT. Ty for that.

I checked all pet regarding abilities of SCH and SMN. I think it has already been reported somewhere, but summarizing here may be a good idea.

Here are the abilities which update pet stats:
Spur
Fey Light
Fey Glow
Fey Covenant

* Update occurs not only at the application but also at the disappearance of the buffs
* Removing master's buffs by right-click has no effect, which confirms only buffs on the pet are involved

Rouse and Fey Illumination do not update pet stats. It is because these ailities change percent modifiers but not change pet status directly like the other abilities.

We already had all these discussions like... 4 months ago.

My aim at the first was to estimate the master's crit and spellspeed effect on the pet quantitatively because I could not find any guide or threads having such information. However, since I am new to Summoner and lacking the knowledge about stats update mechanic, my testing led to faulty one, so that I summarized the information for my own reference.

If you know the pet status formula, it is greatly appreciated if you provide me the url link. This is not something ironic or torlling. If there has already been a report examining pet stats like Blitzball, I don't have to waste time any more. The link where pet stats updating mechanic information summarized are also welcome. I think there may be other important facts than what I summarized above.

The effect of Secondary stats on the pet looks to be about the same as the Master. I updated the OP to show what we could expect from
the Enhanced Pet Action mechanic, and where the stats seem to be heading for Summoner.