On the importance of the elder primal, Odin

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“There are none now alive who know the truth of when or by whom this elder primal was first summoned into the world. ”

I think that a character of such importance to be called elder, should have his own trial or a dungeon with quests centered around him.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...b4/OdinFF6.PNG

I experienced a few small Gridanian quests centered around his release from whatever imprisoned him in the shroud, however for a legendary friend and foe alike that has been central in the universe of many Final Fantasy games, and even featured as a major part of A Realm Reborn's opening cinema, a huge FATE bustling with effects that you can barely see Odin is no place for such a character.

"I am a god amongst men, yet here I stand a man amongst gods."

The Behemoth monster has had a chance to at least be re-purposed outside a huge FATE as King Behemoth within the Labyrinth of Ancients, giving players a much clearer look at it and all it's abilities in their glory. Of course that is just a huge beast of no real importance aside from being a historically strong enemy in the Final Fantasy series. Honestly i'd like to know more about Odin, what his purpose is in Eorzea, and why he was summoned. With recent barrier field removals on cursed places such as Amdpor City, shown to be lairs of ancient things such as Diabolos, i'm hoping that we'll see more light shed on Odin soon.

I'd like to see more story here, too. I feel like Odin has a lot of potential to educate us more on the Allag and Primal Lore, particularly about the mysterious Elder Primals, and that he has been set up with the quests that you've mentioned. He is definitely a loose thread that has yet to be tied down or unravelled, anyways, and there is potential for future information.

Here's to hoping we find answers!

Well, one of the ways they could be going about this is having him featured as a roaming FATE for release to give him some exposition and eventually adding him as a dungeon boss or a trial/primal fight of his own in a patch. I believe a lot of people would rather have SE do this than keeping him as a FATE with nearly useless items (Body can't be glamour'd and the stats were already lackluster at release) and having him fade away into nothingness.

We'll have to wait and see.

Honestly, I have a feeling Odin will be tied to the Ruins of Gelmora, as that place looks like a dungeon he would be in.

Secondly, GIEV RUINS OF GELMORA DUNGEON NAO! :(

I'd be highly disappointed if there weren't a major story arc involving Odin. He's too iconic to the series to be relegated to only being a FATE boss. I'm wondering if more information about him will be forthcoming after they introduce Ramuh or if it won't be until after the expansion.

I still think he had a hand in Bahamut's severed body. There's a lot unexplained with what happened in that bright light and how Bahamut came to be sealed up in Dalamud's fragments being slowly regenerated by the ancient construct's mechanisms.

Spoilers for Coils 1 and 2...

There is a theory that there are both physical and aetheric Bahamuts, the latter of which had already been severed by the Allagans before Ragnarok was shot into orbit in order to be used as a solar conduit to power The Crystal Tower. When Nael used the lunar transmitter to call Meteor/Dalamud/Ragnarok down from the sky, he was tempered and started gathering aetheric energy for Bahamut which was channeled towards the artificial satellite. Upon the false moon's fall, Bahamut then manifested in aetheric form much as any of the other primals we have fought. However, he was orders of magnitude more powerful and, in combination with the fall of the lesser moon's shattered remains, reshaped the land. Whether this is innate, due to his size, or a result of having been used as part of a solar energy collection system has yet to be explained. It might be argued that aether-Bahamut's rampage stopped because the physical pieces of him contained in the lesser moon became separated over great distance, causing him to be unable to effectively draw on enough aether to continue his rampage. Binding Coil story seems to indicate that the Allagans had a contingency plan for if The Ragnarok ever fell back down to Hydaelyn. This is evidenced by ADS (The Allagan Defense System), the presence of advanced machina and magitek that still function and attack us, and the fact that Twintania is seemingly bound by a control collar that has turned it into yet another defense system standing in the way of those who would release dismembered Bahamut from his coils.

There are still many answered questions and your theory is certainly and interesting one. We don't know why Bahamut's rampage stopped, and that's as good a theory as any. We also don't know if it is possible for primals to have true physical form. If Elder Primals are not strictly beings of Aether, this opens the door for possibilities not considered. The hubris of the Allagans is demonstrated by the fact that what we call Dalamud was not simply a prison for Bahamut but also a tool by which the Allagans used him.

I had the feeling that Nael only did what he did BECAUSE he was being tempered by Bahamut.

IIRC, I read somewhere that Ramuh is an elder primal as well? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I have this feeling that the remains of Bahamut seen in Coils are the physical form that perhaps only elder primals can manifest in (or are originally based in). That perhaps the Louisoix/Nael we see in Turn 1/5 is actually an aetherial manifestation of the physical form. We never really know what happened to Loiusoix after the Calamity event, but from the videos I've seen, it seems like he's become an aetherform, much like King Moggle Mog.

Spoilers for Second Coil NPC Dialogue:

This is all but confirmed. Alisae believes that this aetherform of Louisoix can be freed from Bahamut if the coils are broken, while Alphinaud believes that this will only loose more calamity upon Eorzea. We are lead to believe that even if their consciousness lives on, the physical bodies of both Nael and Louisoix are quite dead.

Anyone else feel Odin is a little too tiny? I was really surprised the first time I saw his character model.

I think for the while, Odin is just wandering arround the shroud looking for something we are going to find sooner or later, and then is when things will get interesting with him. I mean, he is an Elder Primal and he is easier than Ifrit HM. No sense whatsoever. As was said before, Gelmora looks like a place where he could be instanced and he has to be related to Bahamut in one way or another. Odin, Bahamut and Alexander are in FF saga, the representation of the classic triangle of fantasy of the Knight, the Dragon and the Castle.

Let`s hope the loremasters do something with this, it would be sad that Odin stays as a FATE forever which, would be almost an insult for FF players since he is one of the most iconic, powerful and dear summons.

If you want to take it further with the history of Odin himself (the actual myth, not FF), Odin is killed by Fenrir. Would be interesting to see some kind of nod to that in FF form. IF they ever intend to introduce Fenrir.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

If you want to take it further with the history of Odin himself (the actual myth, not FF), Odin is killed by Fenrir. Would be interesting to see some kind of nod to that in FF form. IF they ever intend to introduce Fenrir.

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http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ter-Fenrir.png

Probably a good chance it's coming.

Totally forgot about Fenrir eventually being introduced to the game. Unless this means that Odin will end up being a benevolent primal of sorts, and task you with killing Fenrir when the time comes?

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Originally Posted by SavageWolf

Anyone else feel Odin is a little too tiny? I was really surprised the first time I saw his character model.

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From what i've seen, he seems big enough. He doesnt have to be much bigger than a Roe in my opinion, especially since he usually seems to be closer to a normal human in height most of the time, if not a little bigger.

I'm sure there's probably a thread where it's already discussed in detail, but Odin's dialogue lines when you fight him are super interesting to me. "Here I stand, a god amongst men. Yet here I remain, a man amongst gods."

There are so many different ways to speculate and read into his words that I really can't wait for us to finally find out what the deal is. For instance, why is it that he reappears after every defeat? Other primals need to be summoned again, but Odin seems to need no such invitation- he just seems to recover and re-manifest, and whatever his deal is there's no denying that he's so terrifyingly strong that every elemental in the ENTIRE Twelveswood trembles at his presence.

I've never been able to confirm it, but I've heard that Odin's phsyical appearance changes based on who lands the killing blow. If it's true, does that imply that Odin's spirit takes over the body of the one who slays him?

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Originally Posted by Darske

I'm sure there's probably a thread where it's already discussed in detail, but Odin's dialogue lines when you fight him are super interesting to me. "Here I stand, a god amongst men. Yet here I remain, a man amongst gods."

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I've always read that as meaning that Odin was once mortal... he's actually a tragic figure especially with his defeat dialogue reading "You know not what you do..." implying that he actually has some benevolent purpose.

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Originally Posted by Darske

I've never been able to confirm it, but I've heard that Odin's phsyical appearance changes based on who lands the killing blow. If it's true, does that imply that Odin's spirit takes over the body of the one who slays him?

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This is true, he sometimes takes a Lalafell form even with a mini Sleipnir. He's not possessing anyone though I don't think... it's more like he's echoing them. I have some further theories on this based on the events in Turn 9:

Bahamut is shown to be capable of taking the tempered soul of Nael Van Darnus after death and creating it a new body in the form of Nael Deus Darnus. Odin seems to be granted a new body after every death as well so I think it's something similar. It's my belief that Odin isn't actually a primal at all but the pawn of one, namely Fenrir. Urth's Fount would be where Fenrir is still sealed and manipulating Odin as a tool to some end, perhaps to free himself.

So… the FATE, Steel Reign rewards…

Zantetsuken, Hmaljr, Herklaedi and Sleipnir barding…

BUT WHY NO SHIELD?! T__________T

And yet people are still wondering who it was that summoned Odin in the first place. Well…

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/48550086.jpg

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

And yet people are still wondering who it was that summoned Odin in the first place. Well…

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(Posting because I am sleepy and this is for humor)

A nice theory, sir, but incorrect! Allow me to edify you with the FACTS.

1) Odin is freed from his stone prison when it is cut in half by a sword. (Maybe, I don't remember the exact text.)
2) In FF8, Gilgamesh obtains Odin's sword after Odin is defeated by Seifer. (Somehow. It was lame. Odin losing to Seifer? Phfff)
3) Gilgamesh can travel between the universes of Final Fantasy via the void. (Usually.)
4) Gilgamesh lost all his weapons.
4a) Zatentsuken is sold in Mor Dhona.
5) Odin uses Gugnir because he is missing his sword. (Yes, I know he does, in fact, use Zantetsuken.)
6) Odin is chasing Gilgamesh, looking for his sword. He is unaware Gilgamesh lost it. (Likely while fleeing from Odin in terror.)
7) Each time he is defeated, Odin returns to the void to look for Gilgamesh in another game. (Because why not?)

Thus, we can see that Gilgamesh was the being that freed Odin while looking for Gungnir to complete his weapon collection. (Sits back and smokes pipe, nodding sagely.)

Well… I NEVER! *twirls moustache while adjusting monocle*

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Originally Posted by Grayve

1) Odin is freed from his stone prison when it is cut in half by a sword. <- Explicitly stated in The Dark Divinity quest
2) In FF8, Gilgamesh obtains Odin's sword after Odin is defeated by Seifer. (It was lame.)
3) Gilgamesh can travel between the universes of Final Fantasy via the void.
4) Gilgamesh lost all his weapons. (He still has Enkidu. That's a paddlin'.)
4a) Zatentsuken is sold in Mor Dhona. (So? A lot is sold in More Donuts. Except for donuts.)
5) Odin uses Gugnir because he is missing his sword. (LIES AND SLANDER!)
6) Odin is chasing Gilgamesh, looking for his sword. He is unaware Gilgamesh lost it. (Nope. So wrong. Odin is seeking Manbearpig to stop his devastation to Eorzea)
7) Each time he is defeated, Odin returns to the void to look for Gilgamesh in another game. (Because no.)

Thus, we can see that Gilgamesh has nothing to do with Odin in this realm.

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There was already a thread about Odin a while back. There is actually a side quest in Gridania which explains the legend of Odin. During the reign of the Allagan Empire, Odin slew Urth and her people. An unknown Allagan Hero managed to defeat Odin and imprison him in Urth's Fount. It is unknown what grudge Odin had against Urth, but Urianger heavily implies that he is not a malevolent force. He tells the player that the legend only tells one side of the story and that the Adventurer should try to discover the other side. So there definitely will be more involving Odin in the future.

My personal theory is that Odin is tied to Garlemald somehow, possibly the "missing link" in evolution between Allagan and Garlean lineages. The style of his armor bears a strong resemblance to that of Garlean Armor.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

My personal theory is that Odin is tied to Garlemald somehow, possibly the "missing link" in evolution between Allagan and Garlean lineages. The style of his armor bears a strong resemblance to that of Garlean Armor.

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Cool!

I get a whole Hojo-Lucrecia-Vincent vibe from the whole thing, with the knowledge of the Allag being bioengineers of sorts. Perhaps Urth was an Allag biochemist who experimented on her own people, and Odin was a failed experiment in merging human flesh with a primal's essence? I don't know.

I've been throwing around an idea in my head, that people probably wouldn't agree with, but it does make sense. To me at least.

What if Odin is, in fact, Allag himself? Continuing along the lines of my "let's throw in Fenrir here" idea, perhaps THAT'S what happened to destroy the Allagan empire? That perhaps Urth was once a benevolent ruler with Allag/Odin serving under her, much like Raubahn does for the Sultana? And at some point, Urth began utilizing the power of Fenrir till she became tempered/whatever and Allag/Odin had to kill her to free her. So now Odin wanders the shroud as some kind of self-punishment for his sin of killing her.

Or at least, his spirit does, conjured up in the same manner as King Moggle Mog XII. That his appearance is more of a test to find a worthy warrior to help slay Fenrir in a possible future expansion? (Please SE, I can has? ;_; )

It might explain what he says in battle: "Here I stand, a god amongst men. Yet here I remain, a man amongst gods."

Given the nature of KMM, it isn't actually a primal, but a god-like being summoned by the will of the Moogles. Perhaps Odin's essence is the same; he's not actually a god, thereby clarifying his second sentence - yet because he's so powerful he's practically a god compared to us, thereby giving reason to the first sentence.

Whilst the real world mythos has the Fenrir Odin connection, I am not so sure that it is present in Final Fantasy mythology? I'm not so certain that there will be a battle between Odin and Fenrir based on past Final Fantasy games.

Odin's always been sort of a tragic figure in Final Fantasy lore, though.

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Originally Posted by gornotck

Odin's always been sort of a tragic figure in Final Fantasy lore, though.

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It wouldn't be the first time he's disguised himself as someone else (FFIV, iirc?, but in reverse.)