Elementalist => Red Mage/Geomancer Job idea

It's time for me to give you all another large wall of text. :D

Weapon: Rapiers: Thin, single-handed blades that end in a point that were specially handled to allow aether to be channeled through them. Allows for shields on the off hand.
Armor Type: Robes and Light Armor

Elementalist [ELM]
Magic-Melee DPS Class
Limit Break: Magic DPS
Battle-mages that specialize in switching between devastating elemental magics and fencing. Their spells are DoT based and rely on a rotation, switching from one DoT to the next, increasing their damage when used in the correct sequence, and adding stacks to the foe. Magic uses MP and is Intelligence-based, while their Fencing uses TP and Dexterity-based.

Elemental Spells and Cycle:
- The Elementalist main arsenal consists of both natural (Air, Earth, and Water) and aetheric (Fire, Ice, and Thunder) elements and weaving them together, creating a cycle. One cycle is called an Arcane Cycle.
- There are Three types of cycles: The Incorporeal Arcane Cycle (Fire, Thunder, Wind), Corporeal Arcane Cycle (Water, Ice, Earth), and the Complete Arcane Cycle (All Elements).
- Incorporeal Arcane Cycle: Fire => Thunder => Wind => Fire
- Corporeal Arcane Cycle: Water => Ice => Earth => Water
- Complete Arcane Cycle: Fire => Water => Thunder => Earth => Wind => Ice => Fire
- To progress through a cycle, the caster must cast the next Elemental Spell in the cycle on the previous spell's Attuned debuff.
- A cycle is complete when the caster recasts the first spell they cast in the cycle on the correct Attuned debuff.
- Upon completion of a cycle, a target shall receive one tally on an Arcane Cycle buff/debuff.
- One target can only have 10 tallies on an Arcane Cycle stacks on them at a time.
- Completing a Incorporeal Arcane Cycle places a tally on the selected enemy target (as a none removable-debuff).
- Completing a Corporeal Arcane Cycle places a tally on the caster (as a none removable-buff).
- Completing a Complete Arcane Cycle places a Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally on the selected foe and a Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally on the caster.
- Arcane Cycle stacks will stay on the foe until they are killed, disengaged, the Elementalist who placed them on is killed, or all the tallies are used on the stack.
- Multiple foes can have an Arcane Cycle stack from the same Elementalist.
- Arcane Cycle stacks will stay on a caster until they are killed or use all the tallies on the stack.
- Casting the wrong elemental spell on the wrong Attuned debuff will NOT effect it but it will not count towards the cycle until the correct spell is cast. The Attuned debuff will disappear when time is up OR if the wrong Elemental spell's DoT ends and its Attunement buff pops up, the cycle will then be reset but it will not effect Arcane Cycle stacks.

Spells:
- Burn: Fire-based. Ignites the aether surrounding the selected target. Places a "Burn" DoT on the foe for 9 seconds and then places a "Fire-Attuned" debuff on them for 10 seconds.
- Drown: Water-based. Converts the aether surrounding the selected target into water. Places a "Drown" DoT on the foe for 9 seconds and then places a "Water-Attuned" debuff on them for 10 seconds.
- Shock: Thunder-based. Energizes the aether around the selected target. Places a "Shocked" DoT on the foe for 9 seconds and then places a "Thunder-Attuned" debuff on them for 10 seconds.
- Rasp: Earth-based. Uses aether to make minerals surrounding the selected target grind. Places a "Rasp" DoT on the foe for 9 seconds and then places a "Earth-Attuned" debuff on them for 10 seconds.
- Choke: Wind-based. Uses aether to push a great amount of air at the selected target. Places a "Choke" DoT on the foe for 9 seconds and then places a "Wind-Attuned" debuff on them for 10 seconds.
- Frost: Ice-based. Uses aether to freeze the selected target. Places a "Frost" DoT on the foe for 9 seconds and then places a "Ice-Attuned" debuff on them for 10 seconds.
- Osmosis: Uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected foe. Damages the targeted foe, converts 50% of it into MP, and adds one Corporeal Arcane tally to the caster's stack.
- Elementalshift: Changes the selected target's Attuned debuff to the next one in the cycle (This does count toward completing an Arcane Cycle). Also increases the chance of the next Elemental spell placing a Tactical Wheel buff on the caster by 15%

* One foe can only have one DoT and Attuning debuff on them per Elementalist.
** Any newly cast DoT will replace an older DoT.
*** The Attuning debuff will disappear when the opposing elemental spell is cast.

Fencing:
In order to protect themselves while attune their foes to the arcane cycle, Elemantalist have developed a special fencing technique to work in conjuncture with their spell.

Fencing Skills:
- Main Gauche: Uses 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a targeted foe. Places a "Main Gauche" buff on the user for 10 seconds. The Main Gauche buff grants a 80% chance that the damage of a nearby enemy's attack will be decreased by 25% and will be countered for 50% of the damage. Some moves cannot be countered.
- Sabrage: Uses 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the user. Does physical damage to a selected target from up to 15 yalms away and adds 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally to their stack.
- Checkmate: Uses all the Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tallies from a targeted foe. Endows your rapier with aether and causes their Arcane Cycle stacks to burst. Does 20 potency per Arcane Cycle stack.
- Point-in-Line: Uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected foe and 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster. An instant cast ability that automatically parries and counters the targeted foe's attack for 25% of the damage. Timing must be correct in order to use.
- Wasp Sting: The Fencer thrusts towards their foe and places a Poison DoT on them for 10 seconds. Gap-Closer.
- Swarmstrike: Thrusts at a targeted enemy seven times. Each strike does a small amount of damage and has its own chance to be evaded and/or crit. Can be stopped by moving your character.
- Circle Blade: The fencer spins around in a circle, slashing every foe in a 5 yalm radius.
- Ripose: Deals damage to a foe and places a "Bleeding" DoT on the targeted foe for 5 seconds. This skill can ONLY be used after evading, parrying, or countering an enemies attack.
- Remise: A quick, second attack. Can only be used after a Physical Skill.

On GCD
- Elemental Spells
- Main Gauche
- Checkmate
- Wasp Sting
- Swarmstrike
- Circle Blade

Off GCD
- Osmosis
- Elementalshift
- Sabrage
- Ripose
- Remise
- Point-In-Line

Special GCD notes:
When they use a fencing skill, the GCD is normal. When they use an one of there class's Elemental spell , the fencing skills are off the GCD, and usable instantly.

Skill Levels:
1. Burn
2. SwarmStrike
4. Drown
6. Shock
8. Remise
10. Rasp
12. Circle Blade
*Quest* 15. Point-in-Line
18. Choke
22. Frost
26. Feather Strike
*Quest* 30. Osmosis
34. Wasp Sting
38. Ripose
42. Main Gauche
46. Checkmate
50. Elementalshift

Traits and Level Obtained
8. Enchanted Intelligence I
14. Enchanted Dexterity I
16. Enchanted Dexterity II
20. Double-Touch: Whenever Point-in-Line is successfully used, the user will receive a "Double-Touch" buff for 15 seconds. Double-Touch boost the damage done by melee attacks/skills by 10%.
24. Enchanted Intelligence II
28. Tactical Wheel: Adds a 50% chance whenever an Elemental Spell is cast to add a "Tactical Wheel" buff onto the user for 10 seconds, depending on what spell was used. Only one Tactical Wheel buff can be gained per Arcane Cycle and an Elementalist can only have one Tactical Wheel buff at a time.

• Burn: Places a "Tactical Wheel - Flick" buff on the caster. Tactical Wheel - Flick adds a 50% chance of adding a normal, physical attack after using a Fencing skill.
• Drown: Places a "Tactical Wheel - Check-Step " buff on the caster. Tactical Wheel - Check-Step boosts the target's rate of parrying and/or countering by 10%.
• Shock: Places a "Tactical Wheel - Ballestra " buff on the caster. Tactical Wheel - Ballestra boosts the target's action speed by 10%.
• Rasp: Places a "Tactical Wheel - Forte" buff on the caster. Tactical Wheel -Forte boosts the target's evasion rate by 10%.
• Choke: Places a "Tactical Wheel - Fleche" buff on the caster. Tactical Wheel - Fleche boosts the target's physical damage by 15%.
• Frost: Places a "Tactical Wheel - Appel " buff on the caster. Tactical Wheel - Appel increases the amount of enmity generated by the caster by 5%.

32. Enchanted Intelligence III
36. Cyclone Blade: Increases the range of Circle Blade from 5y to 8y and pushes all enemies in range 2y to their right. Some monsters cannot be pushed such as bosses.
40. Enchanted Remise: Shortens the recast time of Remise.
44. Enchanted Dexterity III
48. Cycle Through: For every successful opposing spell cast on an Attunement debuff, 1 second will be taken off of the Elemental Spells DoT. DoT times can only go down to 4 seconds long. Does not effect Red Mage's Enchant or Geomancer's Terrain.

Cross-Class Skills
- Circle Blade
- Ripose
- Remise
- Point-in-Line

Red Mage [RDM]
Magic-Melee DPS/Support Job
Limit Break: Magic DPS
Elemantalist 30/ Arcanist 15
Cross-Skills: Mage
Relic Weapon: Joyeuse (Main-hand) and Warlock's Escutcheon (Off-Hand)
Mages that use their past elemental mastery to enchant allies.

Skills:
30. Spike: Places a magic barrier around the targeted unit. Whenever the target is hit with a nearby attack/skill/spell, the attacker will receive 25% of that damage. When the targeted unit has an Enchant buff on them, damage increases to 35%.
35. Elemental Burst: Makes it so your next spell will effect the target and any foe in a 5 yalm radius. For every monster hit by the spell, the caster's chance of gaining a Tactical Wheel buff increase by 5%. All hit enemies will receive the DoT and following Attuned debuff.
40. Salute: Uses 5 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tallies from the caster. A selected ally will receive 3 seconds to their oldest buff that was placed on them by the caster.
45. Enchant: Uses 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster. Changes the next spell you cast into an Enchantment spell that buffs a selected player. Enchantment places two buffs on a selected target: An "En-" buff, that increase the target's physical damage by 10% and a second buff that is based on what spell was cast on the target. Both last for 20 seconds. Only one Enchantment can be placed on a target at a time. A target can only have one Enchantment placed on them and any new Enchantments cast on them will replace the old. Enchantment spells cost double the MP of the Elemental Spells used to cast them.

• Burn: Places both an "EnBlaze" and "Courage" buff on the target. Courage boost the physical damage of the target by an additional 10%.
• Drown: Places both an "EnDrench" and "Calm" buff on the target. Calm boost the healing potency of the target by 15%.
• Shock: Places both an "EnSpark" and "Enlightened" buff on the target. Enlightened boost the magical damage of the target by 10%.
• Rasp: Places both an "EnGeo" and "Steadfast" buff on the target. Steadfast decreases damage the target receives by 5%.
• Choke: Places both an "EnGail" and "Energized" buff on the target. Energized hastens the targets actions by 15%.
• Frost: Places both an "EnRime" and "Refreshed" buff on the target. Refresh continuously restores the targets MP and TP by 5%.

50. Doublecast: Uses one Arcane Cycle from a selected target. Allows the user to cast a spell on up two separate targets. MP and Arcane Cycle stack costs still are in effect. If Elemental Burst was used, its AoE effect will NOT go into effect.

On GCD:
- Spikes
- Salute
- Enchant

Off GCD:
- Elemental Burst
- Doublecast

Geomancer [GEO]
Magic-Melee Tank Job
Limit Break: Magic DPS
Elemantalist 30/ Gladiator 15
Cross-Skill: Melee + Tank
Relic Weapon: Caladbolg (Main-Hand) and Aegis (Off-Hand)
Elemantalist that use the surrounding aether to augment their own strength, draw enmity, and just make their enemies miserable.

Skills
30. Nature's Wrath: Increases the enmity generated from Elementalist's spells and fencing and Geomancer's abilities. Stance. Can be used under level 30, as long as Geomancer's Job Stone is equipped.
30. Seal Evil: Uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected foe. Stuns the selected target for 4 seconds.
35. Poison Mist: The caster corrupts the aether surrounding them, causing all foes in a 5 yalm radius to receive a "Mist Poison" DoT for 18 seconds.
40. Sinkhole: Uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle stacks from a selected foe. Physically pulls all enemies within a a 7 yalm radius towards the caster. Some enemies cannot be pulled (bosses, trails, giant monsters, etc.).
45. Pulse of Life: Uses all of the Corporeal Arcane Cycle stacks from the caster. The caster sends out a pulse of aether that heals all allies nearby. Heals with a 20 potency per Arcane Cycle stack used.
50. Terrain: Uses 2 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tallies from a selected foe. Changes the next Elementalist spell cast by the user into a Terrain spell.
- Terrain spells cost double the MP of the Elemental Spells used to cast them.
- Terrain spells place a continuous, 5 yalm AoE effect where the Geomancer was standing during the cast for 20 seconds.
- Terrains damage any enemy that enter them over time and enchants any party member that is stand in them, while the Geomancer who cast them is standing in it. How the terrain enchants depends on the spell that was cast.
- Additionally, any enemy that is standing in 4 yalms of the caster when they cast a Terrain spell will receive the corresponding elemental spell's DoT for 5 seconds.
- Also, while standing in a Terrain, the chances of the caster receiving a Tactical Wheel buff from the corresponding elemental spell will increase to 75%.
- One Geomancer can only have one Terrain up at a time, and a party of 2-8 can only have up to 2 Terrains up at a time.

• Burn: Places a "Magma Surge" terrain. When the Geomancer that cast the terrain stand in it, every party member who is standing in the AoE's physical damage increases by 10%. Also increases the chance of the user getting Tactical Wheel-Aetheric when Burn is cast to 75%, while the Geomancer is standing in the terrain.
• Drown: Places a "Torrent" terrain. When the Geomancer that cast the terrain stand in it, every party member who is standing in the AoE's HP heals over time. Also increases the chance of the user getting Tactical Wheel-Natural when Drown is cast to 75%, while the Geomancer is standing in the terrain.
• Shock: Places a "Thunder Cloud" terrain. When the Geomancer that cast the terrain stand in it, every party member who is standing in the AoE's magic damage increases by 10%. Also increases the chance of the user getting Tactical Wheel-Aetheric when Shock is cast to 75%, while the Geomancer is standing in the terrain.
• Rasp: Places a "Sandstorm" terrain. When the Geomancer that cast the terrain stand in it, any enemy that attacks any party member who is standing in the AoE's will receive a Blind debuff. Also increases the chance of the user getting Tactical Wheel-Natural when Rasp is cast to 75%, while the Geomancer is standing in the terrain. In addition, any enemy stands in this terrain will receive addition damage.
• Choke: Places a "Eye of the Storm" terrain. When the Geomancer that cast the terrain stand in it, every party member who is standing in the AoE's Evasion increase by 10%. Also increases the chance of the user getting Tactical Wheel-Natural when Choke is cast to 75%, while the Geomancer is standing in the terrain.
• Frost: Places a "Snowstorm" terrain. When the Geomancer that cast the terrain stand in it, any nearby enemy that attacks any party member who is standing in the AoE's will receive a small amount of damage. Also increases the chance of the user getting Tactical Wheel-Aetheric when Frost is cast to 75%, while the Geomancer is standing in the terrain.

On GCD:
- Sinkhole
- Pulse of Life
- Terrain

Off GCD:
- Nature's Wrath
- Seal Evil
- Poison Mist

Geomancer will come from Conjurer methinks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

Geomancer will come from Conjurer methinks

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That's if SE can figure out how to make anything other then a healer out of Conjurer's skills.

Edit:
Added skills :D

Updated
General
-Added Relics
-Added Limit Break
-Added Cross-Class skills for Jobs

Elementalist
-Added what level you get skills
-Added what skills are cross-class
-Added a note about the GCD

Red Mage
-Elemental Burst and Enchant only use 1 Arcane Cycle stack each.

Geomancer
-Terrain only uses 1 Arcane Cycle stack.

The elemental sounds like a job itself

The elemental sounds like a job itself

Updating:

Elementalist:
-Added Traits

Geomancer:
-While standing in a Terrain, the Geomancer who cast it's chance of getting a Tactical Wheel buff from the corresponding elemental spell will increase to 25%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

That's if SE can figure out how to make anything other then a healer out of Conjurer's skills.

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It wouldn't be too hard. GEO could boost INT a lot and give them terrible MND. They could change Cleric Stance while GEO is equipped to be a stance that creates some sort of new mechanic for GEO (like WAR's Defiance). Add in Flood, Tornado and Quake, a form of MP restoral and some other ability/mechanic. The ancient magic could combo or work with Aero/Stone lines in order to make it a little interesting. They'd still have all their heals but at a reduced potency and would essentially function like a support DPS similar to how BRD supports the team.

I have a really hard time accepting GEO's wielding rapiers too. Outside of Final Fantasy Tactics they've always had a form of blunt weapon as their specialty. Bells, clubs, poles, maces etc. That makes CNJ another reason for their class of choice. Blunt weapons derived from nature.

They'll have to change many of the CNJ's traits and find something to do with Cure/Cura/Curaga/Medica/Medicara :l

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

They'll have to change many of the CNJ's traits and find something to do with Cure/Cura/Curaga/Medica/Medicara :l

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Only 2 - Freecure and Overcure and they could just get switched when Cleric Stance is up (assuming they'd alter CS when GEO is equipped) to Freestone and Overdraft using similar or same effects for Stone/Aero. MND traits can stay (SCH keeps INT traits). Others enhance supporting abilities.

Cure is a non-issue as SMN gets Physick.
Cure II & III, Medica & Medica II offer the team support in a tight situation. Instead of a BRD replenishing WHM MP the GEO could help heal a little bit as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I have a really hard time accepting GEO's wielding rapiers too. Outside of Final Fantasy Tactics they've always had a form of blunt weapon as their specialty. Bells, clubs, poles, maces etc.

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I did actually have the Tactics version of Geomancers in mind when I designed the job... >w>()
They were more physical and hardy then other incarnations, who were all squishy mages (they even used swords and axes as weapons).
We already have two types of squishy mages, the burst-damaging Black Mages and DoT-single-targeting Summoners, so I figured why not have a Tanking mage to go along with my Red Mage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Only 2 - Freecure and Overcure and they could just get switched when Cleric Stance is up (assuming they'd alter CS when GEO is equipped) to Freestone and Overdraft using similar or same effects for Stone/Aero. MND traits can stay (SCH keeps INT traits). Others enhance supporting abilities.

Cure is a non-issue as SMN gets Physick.
Cure II & III, Medica & Medica II offer the team support in a tight situation. Instead of a BRD replenishing WHM MP the GEO could help heal a little bit as well.

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As a DPS, there should be no need for Cleric stance. It should be INT based right at L30. Thus Cleric Stance is effectively worthless.

I don't think Geomancer should have access to AoE heals of any kind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Exstal

As a DPS, there should be no need for Cleric stance. It should be INT based right at L30. Thus Cleric Stance is effectively worthless.

I don't think Geomancer should have access to AoE heals of any kind.

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That's why I said I assumed they would alter CS when GEO is equipped. CS could be used as a stance when GEO is equipped to foster a mechanic in a similar fashion that WAR uses Defiance. It's obvious GEO would be INT based as a DPS which again is why I said I assumed they would alter CS.

This wouldn't be the first time GEO would have heals. Mog in FFVI could recover status ailments and heal HP and MP to full. Aerith in FFVII had access to several AoE heals. GEO in FFXI has a very potent AoE Regen spell and can sacrifice it's Luopon to produce an AoE heal.

In the same fashion as SMN they would heal terribly on their own but could still use them as team support. SMN and SCH were designed from scratch to come from the same class and yet in just about any given fight both jobs won't use up to 5 of their abilities. Even if GEO was such a terrible healer that it wasn't even worth it to assist with a weakened Medica II and all the healing spells went unused that would still just be 5 abilities unused. The same as SCH and SMN.

In fact, many other jobs won't use up to 5 of their abilities as well. Some even up to 6. This is where giving each class a 2nd job comes in. Take the abilities they won't really use with their current job and then make a new job that will use them a lot. Look at ARC's Repelling Shot. BRD will almost never use it. If they were to add a trap-using RNG job to ARC then RNG could get a an ability that rushes up to the target to place a trap and then use Repelling Shot to get out of there in a combo.

So if CNJ were to get another job it would be best to give them one that would make liberal use of Stone, Stone II, Aero, Aero II, Cleric Stance and to a degree Stoneskin. When CNJ is soloing they can be an efficient DPS using these abilities but in group play they see little use (I'm aware that an exceptional WHM can find the time to CS>Aero>Aero II). So DPS comes to mind. Those elements make GEO come to mind. GEO could then be similar to a CNJ/WHM soloing but with its own flair and of course much more potent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Cure II & III, Medica & Medica II offer the team support in a tight situation. Instead of a BRD replenishing WHM MP the GEO could help heal a little bit as well.

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Except that they would still be getting Graniteskin, Proshell, Esuna, and combat rez as well. If you think SMN has amazing utility, a CNJ DPS would completely and totally blow them away. They would be bringing absolutely everything that a WHM brings only with lower heals. Hell, a DPS with 18% Stoneskin basically renders the lack of practical heals completely pointless; when you can throw a shield on someone that soaks as much damage as a healer throws with one of *their* heals, it doesn't matter that your heals are terrible.

CNJ has too much stuff that would have to be removed in order for it to not completely and totally render other DPS irrelevant (or require such a large reduction in DPS to balance it out that it's only marginally stronger than tank DPS), and, when you're talking about a job requiring half of the abilities of a class be changed and/or rendered irrelevant, you're basically saying "yeah, this isn't going to be made".

That could be remedied with support spells having high MP costs with a stance up (it would need about a minute or two cooldown to prevent liberal switching). Stoneskin is already about 400mp, right? Stance bumps it up to say 600. Instead of a direct penalty for using it (like Ballad has) you're now out a good chunk of MP which in turn lowers your DPS (about 4 casts of a Stone/Stone II for one Stoneskin). If you want to save MP you'd have to take off the stance. That's well and good but now your DPS is lowered significantly due to whatever mechanic the stance gives being nullified. You also still have terrible MND and are INT based meaning your heals still perform poorly. Now you're a poor DPS and healer in exchange for a Stoneskin/Esuna bot. Still a form of support but then you face DPS checks or resources becoming strained. Support would have to be strategic to make sure you're still able to perform your primary role as DPS and your secondary role as support.

As for seeing a large number of abilities getting changes the same issue would be present with any of the other classes getting another job. MRD/GLA would need all their enmity taken off and PGL/LNC/ARC would need their mechanics and combos altered, THM is pretty specialized, CNJ has all the support. We already know that Yoshi has said that given a situation where they were to add a DPS job to GLA they could and would make significant changes to their existing abilities to remove all the enmity. I know you are/were of the opinion that no current class will get a 2nd job but I'm of the opposite opinion.

My thread was hijacked. ; w ;

Update:

Red Mage:
-Enchant no longer cost an Arcane Cycle to cast but cost double the amount of the Elemental Spell used to cast it.
-Doublecast uses one Arcane Cycle from a selected foe.

Geomancer:
-Terrain cost double the amount of the Elemental Spell used to cast it.
-The "Sandstorm" terrain does extra damage to any foe that steps into its AoE.

Neat concepts, even if not my first choice for the class-stem or style of Geomancer. Just on basic concepts and mere preferences alone, I'd rather the base class be an actual fencer, with abilities that hint at elemental affinities, while the elemental wheel is introduced in RDM and debuffs are made in combination between one's current step in the wheel and the abilities used. That said, such would likely leave a lot to fine-print tooltips (ability does A in Z, B in Y, C in X, nothing extra in other three elements; this ability gains buff A in Z, B in Y, C in X)...

In terms of actual critique:

- The Tactical Wheel buffs seem unable to be procced predictably in time for any particular event and the parry buff seems almost useless compared to the magic damage increase (which seems to make up the slight majority of RDM and definite majority of Geomancer). The Wheel also feels like it could be a more useful and interesting concept in itself (even if it is in some ways limiting or hindering; or more noticeably throttles and bottlenecks the class) that could add more dynamics to the Elementalist by carrying a native buff inside of each element instead.
- The minor percentages of abilities like Main Gauche also feel too weak.
- Point-in-line seems quite weak as a native ability. As a non-strength class, you're unlikely to be parrying for even 18% or so of the attack strength. Gaining 10% of that chance does not warrant a 10% loss in dps, even with the damage of Riposte (which, due to the long DoT, does not currently benefit quick successive counters, by the way). I would rework this into either a mechanic or a sort of free, dynamic buff that can only be used on one enemy at a time and would have reason to be deployed at certain times (not using it early nor late)--something that fits the theme and won't go unused but is not necessitated either.

The completion of cycles and the cycles system itself could use clarification and exemplification.
- Is the elemental order necessary? Does the position in the Arcane cycle belong to the player or only enemies ("uses one Arcane Cycle from a target")? Does it change when the player casts a spell, or only according to enemy attunement (which would delay its effects by 18 seconds since the attunement debuff only applies after the DoT has finished)? If there's a specific order to your abilities, why have the full range of abilities at your disposal at all times? (You would just be casting Burn, Drown, Shock, Rasp, Choke, Frost...) Even if the order was unimportant, at 18 seconds duration it would take 7 GCDs to be able to effectively recast any of these DoTs, basically forcing you to use all 6. It seems like it would take a minimum of 15 seconds to build a single Arcane Cycle stack on an enemy, though that may be about right, maybe not--I don't know without a better understanding of how this class would fight.

The Red Mage abilities seem rather lackluster except for Double-cast, which is not well explained, and Enchant, which seems a bit too powerful at present. Enchantment, especially, needs a cooldown listed.

Geomancer seems like it ought to be able to more support with its terrain than it does, even if not by much (i.e. applying the debuffs in lesser version to any enemies in the area, or any enemies who attack any allies in that area).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Snip

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Thank you for the critique. :D

Do address your points:
- Tactical Wheel: I had originally though about giving each element a Tactical Wheel buff but was worried that it might be unfair to give them one trait that could possibly gives them one of six different buffs but you are right that it would probably make it more interesting/useful. As for the parrying buff, I made that with GEO in mind. I designed GEO to focus more on parrying as there main defense, to go more with the fencing theme the classes have and their DEX-based physical moves. What if I boost the chance of the Tactical Wheel buff happening to 50% and the Terrain chance to 75%? I'll also add buffs for the individual elements too.
- Percents: When I did all the percents, I was worried that if I made them happen too often the class/jobs would be broken. I'll go boost some of them... >w>()
- Point-In-Line: What if Point-In-Line was an instant cast-ability that automatically parried the enemy's attack? You have to use it at the right time for it to work and get the Double-Touch trait buff.

Arcane Cycle
- Casting the spells in the correct order is necessary BUT you can start anywhere on the cycle you want, I just started it with Fire because it's the first spell you get.
- The Arcane Cycle stack is placed on the enemy. For abilities that use Arcane Cycles, you have to have a foe with stacks selected to use them.
- The Arcane Cycle is based on the Attunement debuff and using the opposite elemental spell to it. Example: You use Burn and wait for the DoT to end and the Fire-Attunement debuff to pop up, you need to use Drown, then Shock when the Water-Attunement debuff is up, and so on until you finish of with casting Burn on an Ice-Attuned foe.
-You don't have to cast the spells on the same enemy. You just need to cast it on an enemy that has the correct attunement debuff on them. This is where RDM's Elemental Burst and Doublecast comes in. I'll remove the Arcane Cycle cost on Elemental Burst to make it easier.
- As for the 18 seconds, the last trait ELM gets at 48, Cycle Through, reduces DoT's time to 9. I had designed the DoTs to force players to use magic and melee combat to maximize damage versus specializing in one or the other like the other DPSs.
-You can have multiple Arcane Cycle stacks on multiple foes.

Red Mage
-Red Mage was designed to be a single-target-supporting DPS versus Bard, which is a group-supporting DPS (at least in my eyes it is. :B ).
- I had designed their abilities to be a bit lackluster just for that reason, Enchant and Doublecast. I also did it to give them things that Bard, the only other support job, didn't have, like a debuff-remover (to help healers) and something to give spike damage to tanks.
- Doublecast was designed to help spread Enchantments and Elemental Spell DoTs. It allows you to cast two of the same spell on up to two targets. With Enchant up, the two spells become Enchantments.
- Elemental Burst is RDM's equivalent to ACN/SMN/SCH's Bane but instead of using it after placing a DoT on an enemy, you us it before to make it an AoE.
- I'll also be boosting Spike's damage output. >w>

Geomancer
- I like both of your ideas. I think I will change them a little to "applying the debuff to enemies in the area, when the Geomancer casts the Terrain spell" and changing the Terrains to effect your allies as well, so long as the Geomancer who cast it is in the AoE.

Huge update:

Elementalist:
- Explained the Arcane Cycle more and fixed wording.
- Listed what Elemental Spell went to which element in the cycle.
- Elementalshift now also increases your chance of receiving a Tactical Wheel buff by 15%
- Main Gauche now has an 80% chance of reducing damage received by 25% and countering an opponent's nearby attack with 50% of the damage.
- Wasp Sting's DoT now only lasts 10 seconds.
- Ripose's Bleeding DoT now only lasts 5 seconds.
- Point-In-Line is now an instant cast skill that automatically parries and counters a targeted foes attack for 75% of the damage. Timing MUST be exact in order to use correctly. Not all attacks can be countered.
- Added On GCD and Off GCD lists.
- Double-Touch now increases the damage done by melee attacks/skills by 25% when Point-In-Line is successfully used.
- Tactical Wheel now has a 50% of adding a Tactical Wheel buff when the user uses an Elemental spell. Each spell now has its own buff.

Red Mage:
- Spike now damages any attacking foe by 25% of the damage they inflicted.
- Elemental Burst no longer has an Arcane Cycle stack cost.
- Defined Doublecast better.
- Added On GCD and Off GCD.

Geomancer:
- Nature's Wrath boosts the enmity of Geomancer's abilities as well.
- Seal Evil no longer has an Arcane Cycle stack cost.
- Better define of Terrain
- Terrain now effects all party members who enter its AoE.
- Terrain also inflicts the corresponding Elemental Spell's DoT for 5 seconds to any enemy standing within 4 yalms of caster when they cast the Terrain spell.
- Terrain now increase your chances of receiving a Tactical Wheel buff to 75% when using the corresponding Elemental spell in it.
- Added On GCD and Off GCD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

- Point-In-Line: What if Point-In-Line was an instant cast-ability that automatically parried the enemy's attack? You have to use it at the right time for it to work and get the Double-Touch trait buff.

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One thing you could do is simply have it take effect (at no cost) only when you are perfectly in front of the enemy and have that enemy targeted. This would be automatic if you had threat, but you could potentially play with the mechanic by allowing the ELM to parry attacks not aimed at you. ELM would thereby become more supportive, moving into tank position for AAs and dodging back out before cleaves. Just a thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Arcane Cycle
- Casting the spells in the correct order is necessary BUT you can start anywhere on the cycle you want, I just started it with Fire because it's the first spell you get.
- The Arcane Cycle stack is placed on the enemy. For abilities that use Arcane Cycles, you have to have a foe with stacks selected to use them.
- The Arcane Cycle is based on the Attunement debuff and using the opposite elemental spell to it. Example: You use Burn and wait for the DoT to end and the Fire-Attunement debuff to pop up, you need to use Drown, then Shock when the Water-Attunement debuff is up, and so on until you finish of with casting Burn on an Ice-Attuned foe.
-You don't have to cast the spells on the same enemy. You just need to cast it on an enemy that has the correct attunement debuff on them. This is where RDM's Elemental Burst and Doublecast comes in. I'll remove the Arcane Cycle cost on Elemental Burst to make it easier.
- As for the 18 seconds, the last trait ELM gets at 48, Cycle Through, reduces DoT's time to 9. I had designed the DoTs to force players to use magic and melee combat to maximize damage versus specializing in one or the other like the other DPSs.
-You can have multiple Arcane Cycle stacks on multiple foes.

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So does each reversal (fire-->water or ice-->fire, etc.) constitute a stack, or each full rotation of elements? In either case, if the Arcane Cycle is basically foe-only, there really is no free-floating concept to it to speak of (not to say that you implied there was; it just tends to seem a level less significant to the class when the concept is simply a result of action). Instead, each attunement debuff simply grants a stack of charge, <Arcane Cycle>, whenever an opposite element is used, and certain abilities then consume that stack.

Basically, it makes me wish there was a native version of the Cycles as well, such as an attunement buff on the ELM itself, that required strategy to sync up with certain future wants for the elemental uses. This complexity would also be aided by having more than just Burst and Doublecast to spread about mobs, syncing up their debuff elements differently.

In a lot of dungeons, mobs don't last 18 seconds. You may want to drop the original time down to 9, or have the attunement effect take place after a certain minimum amount of damage has occured, where DoT crits could accelerate the readying of the debuff, and it on average goes off about 9 seconds with no crits and faster with them. "Cycle Through" could probably use a better name as long as the speed of elemental wheel rotations is its only major element effected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Red Mage
-Red Mage was designed to be a single-target-supporting DPS versus Bard, which is a group-supporting DPS (at least in my eyes it is. :B ).
- I had designed their abilities to be a bit lackluster just for that reason, Enchant and Doublecast. I also did it to give them things that Bard, the only other support job, didn't have, like a debuff-remover (to help healers) and something to give spike damage to tanks.
- Doublecast was designed to help spread Enchantments and Elemental Spell DoTs. It allows you to cast two of the same spell on up to two targets. With Enchant up, the two spells become Enchantments.
- Elemental Burst is RDM's equivalent to ACN/SMN/SCH's Bane but instead of using it after placing a DoT on an enemy, you use it before to make it an AoE.
- I'll also be boosting Spike's damage output. >w>

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Even as a support, RDM doesn't have to have lackluster abilities. Try to imagine scenarios that really stick out to you and make you want to play the job. Who all does it pair with, when and why, and how does it affect the linked party members' rotations? If it doesn't affect their gameplay at all (not that I recommend that a paired class should have to outright renegotiate its rotations to better benefit from RDM), such as a general dps increase or a minor benefit that doesn't allow for any extra action or opportunity (e.g. a skill speed increase that doesn't allow for an extra ability per shorter rotation), it will be that much less interesting.

_________________________________________

To be honest, I still think ELM doesn't really have a place as a class, especially as *the* rapier class. I'd much rather see Fencer used with the Fencer weapons, and for its elemental abilities to seem only either coincidental or stylistically-matching to an otherwise physical repertoire. I think that also brings more of the unique spellblade style of RDM than if starting from a caster class that happens to carry a sword and uses a couple sword finishers. I'd recommend reading MartaDemireux's take on the RDM. It's not exactly what I'm recommending by any means, but it will give a better example than I can illustrate in writing here.

It would be interesting if geo came from cnj and they changed cure > banish, cure 2 > banish 2 etc. So they would be light element attacks. Along with the other ideas you had maybe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Snip

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Thank you again from the critique, I like input. :D

To address your points:

Point-In-Line: Here is the current version I have created: "Point-in-Line: An instant cast ability that automatically parries and counters a targeted foe's attack for 75% of the damage. Timing must be correct in order to use." And to go with it, "Double-Touch (Trait): Whenever Point-in-Line is successfully used, the user will receive a "Double-Touch" buff for 15 seconds. Double-Touch boost the damage done by melee attacks/skills by 25% ".

Arcane Cycle:
- Each rotation of the elements gives a stack, like: 1st spell > 2nd spell (1st Element's weakness)> 3rd spell (2nd's weakness)> 4th spell (3rd's weakness) > 5th spell (4th's weakness) > 6th spell (5th's weakness) > 1st spell (6th's weakness).

- As for why the stack goes onto the enemy, I want them to feel like an enfeeble/debuff, they would stack on your enemy and you would use it against them. I had also designed it to be more in use during longer battles like bosses and trials, with fencing being more for quick damage and dealing with trash mobs. However, I can see your point about it not being very "free-floating" and have to concur. I have been playing with some ideas about splitting the cycle two shorter cycles that would add the stacks to you or foe depending on which stack is used (Fire > Thunder > Wind > Fire and Water > Ice > Earth >Water) and an abilities that would let your place or grab tallies from one or the other. That way, you can use stacks that are on you for somethings and stacks of foes for other things.

- As for the DoT time, what if I make them 9 seconds long and change Cycle Through to something like "For every successful opposing spell cast on an Attunement debuff, 1 second will be taken off of the Elemental Spells DoT. DoT times can only go down to x seconds."?

Red Mage:
- I really didn't want to give them a specific scenario to stick out in, I wanted them to have fluidity via their utility, with Enchant being their main tool to augment the party's strength. I mean other then WHM/SCH (complement each other), WHM/BRD (Manasong), and DRG/BRD (Impulse Drive + Disembowel to boost BRD's damage), I don't know of any other pairings.
- Having said all that, I can see how lame Spike, Aetheric Cleanse, and Elemental Burst can look. I might remove Aetheric Cleanse for something more interesting.

Fencer vs Elementalist
I have read Matra's Fencer => Red Mage/Mystic Knight Proposal. Matra's proposals are were what got me interested in making class ideas (I have a second class/job idea thread floating around somewhere). >w>()
For me, I don't like the idea of a Fencer just stumbling into magic, it just seems random. I also felt that Red Mage using the spells from other classes (Conjurer and Thaumaturge) and having none of their own didn't fit with XIV, who gave each magic job the bulk of spells via their class.
The reason I picked Elementalist as the class is because, just like Fencer, it came from the Tactic Advanced series and uses a rapier (you even need a Fencer's skill to unlock both Red Mage and Elementalist) but also uses debuffing, elemental spells. I just fused the two together and left Elementalist's name because it seemed more descriptive of the class.
As for the elemental blade idea, I would rather save that for an actual Spell Blade/Mystic Knight/Rune Knight/etc job (maybe for a two-handed sword or another special sword). More jobs, more things to do. ;D

Update:

Arcane Cycle:
- There are now two Arcane Cycles: the Incorporeal Arcane Cycle (Fire => Thunder => Wind => Fire) and the Corporeal Arcane Cycle (Water => Ice => Earth => Water)
- Completing a Incorporeal Arcane Cycle places a tally on the selected enemy target (as a none removable-debuff).
- Completing a Corporeal Arcane Cycle places a tally on the caster (as a none removable-buff).

Elementalist:
- All the Elemental Spell's DoT are now 9 seconds long.
- Osmosis now costs 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected foe. It damages the targeted foe, converts 50% of it into MP, and adds 1 Corporeal Arcane tally to the caster's stack.
- Main Gauche now costs 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster.
- Featherstrike has been replaced by "Sabrage.
- Sabrage: Uses 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle stack from the user. Does physical damage to a selected target from up to 15 yalms away and adds 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally to their stack.
- Checkmate now uses all Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tallies on a selected foe.
- Cycle Through's new effect: For every successful opposing spell cast on an Attunement debuff, 1 second will be taken off of the caster's Elemental Spells' DoT. DoT times can only go down to 4 seconds long. Does not effect Red Mage's Enchant or Geomancer's Terrain.

Red Mage:
- Spike's damage now increases to 35% if the target has an Enchant buff on them.
- Elemental Burst now increase your chances of getting a Tactical Wheel buff by 5% for every enemy hit by the spell.
- Aetheric Cleanse has been replaced by Salute.
- Salute: Uses 5 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tallies from the caster. A selected ally will receive 3 seconds to their oldest buff that was placed on them by the caster.
- Enchant now uses 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster.

Geomancer:
- Seal Evil now uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected target.
- Sinkhole now uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected target.
- Pulse of Life now uses all Corporeal Arcane tallies from the caster.
- Terrain now uses 2 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tallies from a selected target.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Point-In-Line: Here is the current version I have created: "Point-in-Line: An instant cast ability that automatically parries and counters a targeted foe's attack for 75% of the damage. Timing must be correct in order to use." And to go with it, "Double-Touch (Trait): Whenever Point-in-Line is successfully used, the user will receive a "Double-Touch" buff for 15 seconds. Double-Touch boost the damage done by melee attacks/skills by 25% ".

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...Now it's too strong. Just consider this for instance: the lowest average potency of any melee's attacks (not buffs or debuffs) is 198 over 3 abilities (Monk's BS-True-Snap), or in a single ability: 150 for DRG (presents chain) and 180 for Monk, while Haymaker deals only 170 potency. In general, they're just not very good. Haymaker coming from a MNK has the advantage of having no positional, but that's it. Here you'd be gaining a combined Heavy Thrust and Twin Snakes for a single Off-GCD mitigation ability.

Arcane Cycle:
- Each rotation of the elements gives a stack, like: 1st spell > 2nd spell (1st Element's weakness)> 3rd spell (2nd's weakness)> 4th spell (3rd's weakness) > 5th spell (4th's weakness) > 6th spell (5th's weakness) > 1st spell (6th's weakness).

- As for why the stack goes onto the enemy, I want them to feel like an enfeeble/debuff, they would stack on your enemy and you would use it against them. I had also designed it to be more in use during longer battles like bosses and trials, with fencing being more for quick damage and dealing with trash mobs. However, I can see your point about it not being very "free-floating" and have to concur. I have been playing with some ideas about splitting the cycle two shorter cycles that would add the stacks to you or foe depending on which stack is used (Fire > Thunder > Wind > Fire and Water > Ice > Earth >Water) and an abilities that would let your place or grab tallies from one or the other. That way, you can use stacks that are on you for somethings and stacks of foes for other things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

As for the DoT time, what if I make them 9 seconds long and change Cycle Through to something like "For every successful opposing spell cast on an Attunement debuff, 1 second will be taken off of the Elemental Spells DoT. DoT times can only go down to x seconds."?

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Given that they go off on a global 3-second tick, this would have the disadvantage of losing over-time damage. Why not just have a half chance to consume a tick (3 seconds), dealing that damage instantly?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I don't know of any other pairings.

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Dragoon--> Piercing attacks (DRGs and BRDs), Warrior-->Slashing attacks (WARs and PLDs), Bards-->Magic attacks (via Foe; SMN, BLM, WHM, SCH), Monks-->Blunt attacks (Monks). Every job is supported, among which only Monk is self-supported, and only Bard cannot significantly support itself with the ability which supports others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Fencer vs Elementalist
For me, I don't like the idea of a Fencer just stumbling into magic, it just seems random. I also felt that Red Mage using the spells from other classes (Conjurer and Thaumaturge) and having none of their own didn't fit with XIV, who gave each magic job the bulk of spells via their class.
The reason I picked Elementalist as the class is because, just like Fencer, it came from the Tactic Advanced series and uses a rapier (you even need a Fencer's skill to unlock both Red Mage and Elementalist) but also uses debuffing, elemental spells. I just fused the two together and left Elementalist's name because it seemed more descriptive of the class.
As for the elemental blade idea, I would rather save that for an actual Spell Blade/Mystic Knight/Rune Knight/etc job (maybe for a two-handed sword or another special sword). More jobs, more things to do. ;D

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It's for the same reason that you wouldn't want to preclude the those jobs that I wouldn't want to see the rapier fit to a non-Fencer class. Aesthetically, GLD already has access to virtually every type of sword except for oriental-style and fencing weapons. I'd rather avoid further overlap, especially with the likely eventual arrival of ninjas and samurai, and find Fencer to be the fundamental rapier/fencing-weapon class.

That said, I'd always imagined Red Mage, in FFXIV's more minimalistic system, as having basically only one or two cast abilities (usually one GCD for true casts and an oGCD for 'releases') that nonetheless could function as almost any cast spell within RDM's library as would be reasonably transferable to its range of powers in FFXIV (given the relatively restrictive sharing of key moves like cleanses, etc., in this game). Your moves would influence the elements stored in your blade, for example, the result (whether normally called Fire or Thunder or Stone or Blast or Burn or whatever else) then being released by a single button. That's probably why, as much as I've never really thought little of RDM's magic abilities, or their frequency of casting, it's always seemed closest to a Fencer to me, at least among any incarnations possible in FFXIV.

Update:

Arcane Cycle:
- (Re)Added a third Cycle: The Complete Arcane Cycle (Fire => Water => Thunder => Earth => Wind => Ice => Fire)
- Upon completing a Complete Arcane Cycle, the target foe will receive one Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally and the user will receive one Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally.
- To progress through a cycle, the caster must cast the next Elemental Spell in the cycle on the previous spell's Attuned debuff.
- A cycle is complete when the caster recasts the first spell they cast in the cycle on the correct Attuned debuff.

Elementalist:
- Point-In-Line now cost 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the targeted foe and 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster. Also, it now only counters with 25% of the damage it received.
- The Double-Touch buff now only boosts your physical damage by 10%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Snip

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To address your points:

Point-In-Line
Here is my current revision of Point-In-Line: Uses 1 Incorporeal Arcane Cycle tally from a selected foe and 1 Corporeal Arcane Cycle tally from the caster. An instant cast ability that automatically parries and counters the targeted foe's attack for 25% of the damage. Timing must be correct in order to use.
I also reduced the Double-Touch buff's physical damage increase to 10%.

Dot Time and Cycle Through
I made Cycle Through's effect only be able to lower to 4 seconds. I do have to agree that that does ruin the damage over time though, I'll have to revise it...
I'm not sure what you mean by "consume a tick, dealing damage instantly". Do you mean like giving a chance to add what the DoT's damage would have been to the initial spell and places the attune debuff automatically?

Red Mage and Pairing
I had designed the Enchant Buffs to do that. Courage to help with Melee DPS and Tanks damage output, Calm to help with Healers healing, Enlightened to help Mages with their damage output, Steadfast to help damage mitigation (both physical and magical) on Tanks, Energize helps anyone speed up actions, and Refresh to help Mages with MP regain. I gave them broad support versus specific support.

More than likely RDM will come from BLM/WHM. There were some spells in 1.0 that disappeared in ARR, RDM specific spells, such as phalanx, shock spikes, and I think refresh was there as well. I would be extremely disappointed if they made a RDM anything other than what it was in FFXI, a buffer/debuffer. Paralyze, which is already in the game, slow, dia, haste, en- and bar- spells (could be aoe), gravity, bind, refresh, spike spells, phalanx, chainspell, ect., fast cast passive as well as an enhancement to enfeebles, so they work on bosses. The elemental damage line isn't necessary.