Excellent, parsers are now bannable

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...96#post2003696

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Although we will continue to monitor game data to ensure that similar illegitimate practices are not being used, we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action.

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Have you been living under a rock? They've always been a violation of the ToS.

Meh, I don't see why they're so controversial here. Tanks are measured by how well they generate enmity / take damage, healers are measured by how well they keep people alive, so why shouldn't DPS be measured in some way? I understand that some people will use them to treat people negatively, but imo that's not reason enough to stop the people who want to use them constructively.

I wonder if SE is also worried about class balance issues becoming a persistent new problem should any one class dominate damage meters over the others. Seems like it could be another thing for the playerbase to stir an uproar over should it happen.

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Originally Posted by Sacred-Oblivion

Meh, I don't see why they're so controversial here. Tanks are measured by how well they generate enmity / take damage, healers are measured by how well they keep people alive, so why shouldn't DPS be measured in some way? I understand that some people will use them to treat people negatively, but imo that's not reason enough to stop the people who want to use them constructively.

I wonder if SE is also worried about class balance issues becoming a persistent new problem should any one class dominate damage meters over the others. Seems like it could be another thing for the playerbase to stir an uproar over should it happen.

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We have an enmity bar for that.... If dps is low then it will be noticeable in a dps race and then the players can suggest changes non-aggressively with their team and find a way around it. :x

They have always been bannable, just a matter of being caught/reported.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

We have an enmity bar for that.... If dps is low then it will be noticeable in a dps race and then the players can suggest changes non-aggressively with their team and find a way around it. :x

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I'm coming from WoW so I'm not sure how different it is here, but many of the dps classes in WoW had skills that altered their threat output and so tps and dps weren't always a 1:1 correlation. If these types of mechanics are present in the classes here then I wouldn't consider the enmity bar a reliable indicator of dps (e.g., if a someone doesn't use their enmity lowering skills then it might give the impression that they are out-dpsing someone who is using them). But yeah, since it's all we have I suppose it can be used as a general guide especially if you know the people you're playing with.

I'm not saying that a parser should be used as a competition for top-dps, but as a performance measurement tool that signals if improvements could be made. Similar to how tanks and healers are measured for their roles as stated above.

They just didn't design the game to expose certain information. Using an additional program to reveal information the game doesn't want you to know is cheating in a way. I still remember a couple weeks after ARR launched when I was still learning, someone who was using a parser harassed me and one other person, saying we might as well not be there and we were not impressing him.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...legal-in-FFXIV

Already a thread on this

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...legal-in-FFXIV

Already a thread on this

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I'd love to post there but my level 0 GLA is not high enough :(

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

They just didn't design the game to expose certain information. Using an additional program to reveal information the game doesn't want you to know is cheating in a way. I still remember a couple weeks after ARR launched when I was still learning, someone who was using a parser harassed me and one other person, saying we might as well not be there and we were not impressing him.

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Even if that person had not been using a parser would you still want to play with him? My guess is he'd be unenjoyable to play with in many situations, not just in ones where he can see your dps. Unfortunately getting harassed is just part of learning the game, as unproductive as it is. I had to go through it as well when I was first learning how to tank in WoW. My advice in that situation would be to look for friendlier people who place more value in cooperation.

Ideally a parser should be used for experimenting with different rotations to see what works and what doesn't (so even one that reported your own dps to only you would be useful). Just because someone was being a dickface when using one doesn't make the parser itself bad. That person is going to be a dickface regardless of whether he's using a parser or not.

@ Sacred I don't disagree that enmity bars are unreliable to a certain degree (only three dps jobs can slow down their enmity gain via skill btw; Black Mage, Summoner and Bard) but I will say from my personal point of view and this is just mines alone.... if what I am doing gets done then I personally don't give a care on how much damage any of the classes can or will do... as long as it gets done.

Though that is just my view on it, I will also say that I also don't think this topic is even meant to be here... *cough* :x

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Originally Posted by Lillia

if what I am doing gets done then I personally don't give a care on how much damage any of the classes can or will do... as long as it gets done.

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That's exactly the right attitude. Once I start playing I'll just be a casual player, but I still want to progress through as much content as I can. To do that I'll need to know where I need to make improvements and that's where a parser can come in handy.

there is a dummy in the game for a reason and the battle log, use them no need for a parser.

Meh not sure how useful this dummy is, but I'm skeptical that it could be anywhere near as useful as a parser. Unless of course I can take the dummy to a dungeon with me and it records all my dps data then whispers me the statistics.

no need for it, you can check your rotations outside of dungeons then use them in dungeons. in the end parsers are not needed.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

We have an enmity bar for that.... If dps is low then it will be noticeable in a dps race and then the players can suggest changes non-aggressively with their team and find a way around it. :x

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Enmity bar doesn't correctly show how much damage you did. Every DPS but monk has a skill to drop their enmity (Elusive Jump or Quelling Strikes). The timing of these skills will obviously affect how much enmity they gain. Sure you can measure dps by seeing how fast the encounter goes but there are twice as many dps as there are tanks or healers so their performance are not as easily estimated.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

no need for it, you can check your rotations outside of dungeons then use them in dungeons. in the end parsers are not needed.

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Problem with that is real fights are no where close to perfect conditions like dummy. You'll understand more if you play melee dps at end-game.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

no need for it, you can check your rotations outside of dungeons then use them in dungeons. in the end parsers are not needed.

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There are other mechanics involved than just rotations (e.g., enmity management, dungeon/boss mechanics, etc...)

using a parser is not a bannable offense. using a parser to harass others and/or to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a bannable offense. there's a huge difference between the two. using a parser for self-improvement is likely not going to have any consequences. telling a player they suck because your parser says they're doing very low dps will definitely have consequences, especially if that player reports you, as they should. some of these parser programs are also adding other features that do way more than measure dps. i'm sure the warning yesterday was more about those other features. parsers aren't necessary to improve, but they can be helpful. a parser is not bannable. it's how people use the parser that may be bannable.

and the announcement yesterday didn't state anything new. it was just a reiteration of previous statements.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Problem with that is real fights are no where close to perfect conditions like dummy. You'll understand more if you play melee dps at end-game.

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and so this gives you the right to openly break the rules? nope. you don't need them it's called improvising, if you see you will never get a chance to keep certain buffs up (which is why grease lightning got a duration boost) work around it parsers just make it easier, remember you don't need them you just want them and personally i have nothing against parsers but if they say they are illegal you can't use them and these excuses you guys make are funny you can clearly see what you can and can't do during a fight use that knowledge.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

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using them is bannable if you say hey i have a parsers i can report you and get you suspended. its a hush hush fight club thing yoshi p has said this already. if you use a parser and never say anything about it you won't get in trouble but the moment you say i have parser it's reportable even if you didn't question someones dps.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Enmity bar doesn't correctly show how much damage you did. Every DPS but monk has a skill to drop their enmity (Elusive Jump or Quelling Strikes). The timing of these skills will obviously affect how much enmity they gain. Sure you can measure dps by seeing how fast the encounter goes but there are twice as many dps as there are tanks or healers so their performance are not as easily estimated.

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Ah, I didn't know drg also had a skill that slowed down enmity gain. Also I think most fights show where it's coming from.. take T4's soldiers and knights for example, if your melee is really slow on knights while your mages are burning through their soldiers like nothing... well... you can almost spot the problem right there.

I'm not gonna say that there aren't times where one add is killed right when bugs pop with dread and the dread still goes down fine but when the bugs spawn the add should definitely be close to dead if not dead already, in this situation theres normally buffs that can help killing the dread too so it goes by fine with the right dps.

But why would you need a parser to tell you that you're gonna die from slow melee or magical dmg? you should be able to plainly see that much. In those situations it's just really plain to see.

(T1 can be done even with some in DL, I won't go into details about that turn considering when knowing what to do it's normally done smoothly and T2 is just enraged now. T5 well... I don't think people with serious dmg issues would have the easiest time in T4 so... I won't mention T5 due to that and... tbh Idk much about T5 to talk on it.) :(

Putting coil aside, Dungeons.... most are a cake walk, (they just take learning) so you shouldn't need to watch someone else's dmg to see if they can get through those.

Lastly EX's, Yeah a parser may be explained as helpful in those but sometimes the person messing up dies first or is noticed by someone else... so it doesn't matter anyways, most seeing "baddies" (as some call people) are catch them and insta kick them whether they were just going to learn or not.

Least thats what I've seen done in some pfs on our server anyways, so a parser would probably just be used to harrass in that situation more than anything. (If just dmg is the issue and no one is dying then normally asking for people to bum it up or making suggestions does help least in runs I've had.)

Again just my view, I am not saying I am 100% right or anything. I play a certain way and I'd not use a parser myself. I don't expect my views or feelings to change if someone can or will use one themselves nor if they find them useful.

Honestly, you can more or less tell if a DPS is doing their job or not simply by watching them. If you have a monk that is flying around a mob, they're likely doing their darnest to get as much DPS out as they can. If you have a black mage just standing there using the same skill over and over..likely not so much.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

using them is bannable if you say hey i have a parsers i can report you and get you suspended. its a hush hush fight club thing yoshi p has said this already. if you use a parser and never say anything about it you won't get in trouble but the moment you say i have parser it's reportable even if you didn't question someones dps.

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that's what i'm saying. if using a parser is bannable offense than Yoshi p would have said using a parser, even when no one knows that you're using a parser, will get you banned. instead he said be hush hush about it. obviously if you're going around flaunting it then you deserve whatever consequences come your way. if you can't be responsible then you deserve what you get.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Sure you can measure dps by seeing how fast the encounter goes but there are twice as many dps as there are tanks or healers so their performance are not as easily estimated.

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But that is the part of their performance that matters to the game. If the mobs are dropping, the DPS are doing their jobs. If party members are not dropping, then the tank and healer are doing their jobs. Effectiveness is seen in the game itself, not by some number a parser could spit out. Parsers are just a distraction from the more important and useful measures of players' effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

if using a parser is bannable offense than Yoshi p would have said using a parser, even when no one knows that you're using a parser, will get you banned.

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There's a difference between breaking the rules and getting caught breaking the rules. Using a parser is against the rules regardless of whether you say anything about it or not, but SE has no way of punishing someone for a violation unless they know about it. The only way they'll know that you're breaking this particular rule is if you tell people that you are, so that's the only time the rule becomes enforceable.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

But that is the part of their performance that matters to the game. If the mobs are dropping, the DPS are doing their jobs. If party members are not dropping, then the tank and healer are doing their jobs. Effectiveness is seen in the game itself, not by some number a parser could spit out. Parsers are just a distraction from the more important and useful measures of players' effectiveness.

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If the tank fails, then they know right away that he/she needs to change their strategy.
If the healer fails, then they know right away that he/she needs to change their strategy.
If the dps fails, they are usually blamed collectively without really knowing individually if they were doing something wrong.

Granted in most cases you can have one or two dps slacking and still conquer a fight. But this can become a real handicap in the more challenging encounters and so if an inefficiency exists it's better to correct it early on than waiting for a wipe on something harder. If an in-game parser could be designed in a way that didn't encourage competition or harassment I would be all for it. From my experience in other MMOs these tools have been very useful in increasing performance.

The only thing that will effect your dps is
-gear
-rotation
-buffs/debuffs
If you got the rotation down thats good.
Gearing up ? Also important.
Did u get hit with a debuff that lowers ur attack?
Other than those 3 key points, parsers are un needed.
No enemies to this day and age in FF ( excluding t4-9 coil )
Should catch u by surprise.
Its all cut and paste and all too predictable.
The only thing that would affect ur dps is when
1) you miss ( insufficient accuracy)
2) rng damage.
Sometimes you'll hit for 500 then the next you'll hit for 480 then after 539.
So whoever uses parsers should be banned cuz they r using an outside program that is not part of the game.
Plain and simple.