Zenith: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/144865c071c/
Atma: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/fae5e883c0c/
Leave aside the stupid Atma farming for now, thats another topic, but the Atma Weapon is only a Upgrade on the Itemlevel?
A Mere number but everything else the same? SERIOUSLY?
So the Atma quest is "bring me 12 insanly hard to get items and i put some color on your weapon", really?
I heard that you can upgrade them step by step with the book after it but, i have done all the work only to get more work?
Im really disappointed right now, i have no problem to work for my stuff, but that?
Atma = Zenith, Seriously?
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03-31-2014, 09:30 AMBassoAtma = Zenith, Seriously?
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03-31-2014, 09:32 AMChiramu
Maybe there is an incorrect image displayed on the NA lodestone perhaps? Do you have the Atma bow? Can you compare in game?
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03-31-2014, 09:32 AMRecaldy
Do some research?
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03-31-2014, 09:38 AMAllard
Your hard work now will pay off later when more and more upgrades for the relic is released.
Like you said, you will upgrade the stats of the weapon by doing the tome quests afterwards... Sure its annoying to only get a different coloured Relic after an extremely frustrating grind. But might as well get it out the way, eh? If not, stop doing it and do something else (get Levi, COIL or the other i100 weapon) and just wait for the drop rates to be buffed. -
03-31-2014, 09:38 AMXanderOlivieriYou're only looking at half of what is really there. It changes to Atma once you have the twelve crystals. From there each Atma item can increase individual stats from a selection of 4 that are already in the item. Like the Viel of Wiyu. Once you have its Atma, you increase the stats on it. I get 3 hunting books to do to increase its intelligence by 2 points each. So with one book completed my Wiyu Atma has 33 Int. With two books it has 35 Int. With all three it has 37 int, same as the Animus form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso
Atma is the weapon's transitional stage between Zenith and Animus. We have to build the weapon up ourselves once we've unlocked the Atma form. -
03-31-2014, 09:39 AMBassoi hope i will get it tomorrow, on 11 atmas right now, then i can compare it ingame, but i already heard from others that it is exactly the same, and then you can buy these books for myth,Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiramu
farm even more and then you can upgrade it step by step by some stats....
Like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Recaldy
http://www.ffxivguild.com/ffxiv-zodi...pon-guide-faq/
Its exactly the thing i said, the Atma stuff does nothing to increase the strength of the weapon only 10 more itemlevels
the farming after that, increases the strength step by step, and for each bopok you need 1500 myth, thenn kill 100 mobs, do 3 fates,dungeons and leves.
the step by step upgrade is nice and i wont stop now, only need one more, but the grind get even more annoying if you notice that it only gives you some color.....
In my opinion the atma weapon is a joke, the coul just skip the atma thing, because some color is not worth a new weapon, in the end we only get 1 new weapon, not twoQuote:
Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri
EDIT:
Found a pic of the bow
http://imgur.com/a/pUnb9
yeah jahlzahn new found power, an idiot could paint my weapon........
a pic of one of these books
http://imgur.com/a/QErtL#0 -
03-31-2014, 09:56 AMZumi
You have to do the books to upgrade the stats when you finish all 9 books then it will actually have ilvl 100 stats. The first part isn't really an upgrade but its just a prerequisite to further the quest.
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03-31-2014, 09:59 AMBassoAfter the book you will have the animus weapon, itemlevel 100 too,animus has the stats atma has after the upgrade with the books......Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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03-31-2014, 10:01 AMchococoYup. but the built up stage is merely just the same as the levi weapons, and weaker than gerol's weapons and much worse than allagan.Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri
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03-31-2014, 10:14 AMXanderOlivieriAnd its going to continue to grow as time progresses. Since its roughly the same as a crafted item by creation, albeit longer process and not trade able, its lumped into the category of "Crafted gear will not better end game dungeon gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by chococo
Zodiac weapons will always be inferior even to the point that they stop updating them but continue to update content. You have to get the Atma Stones for the Zenith so the Zenith's upgrade process is to get the stones. The Atma's upgrade process is to use the books which make it stronger than the Zenith. When the 2.25 update comes out, they'll be able to be further developed. In 2.3 we'll get to progress even further with them, though they'll always be less than that current patch's Dungeon and Token gear.
If you look at it in any other way that an in between state you are looking at the item incorrectly. Its not supposed to be an end all weapon. It most likely never will be an end all weapon. Its completely optional. -
03-31-2014, 10:17 AMBassoi doesnt need to be that good, but if we look back, zenit ilevle 90, best weaon ilevel 95, this time its 100 and 115, in my opnion all the work for the atma weapon deserves a little stat upgrade, the itemlevel somewhat says its a stronger weapon but in reality its exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri
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03-31-2014, 10:42 AMXanderOlivieriItem level doesn't mean its a stronger item. ilvl 90 Regular Crafted gear is not better than ilvl 90 Dungeon gear. High Quality Crafted gear is on level with Dungeon gear. But still regular crafted items are inferior with the same item level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso
Looking at i55 gear, doing 4 of them with different stats:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/i...ade/55gear.png
Even with HQ standing, the Militia robe doesn't have as much Int as the Evoker's Doublet, but has better accuracy and increased Spell Speed. It even has two Materia slots to increase the missing stats. Depending on the Materia bonus cap, it can have more Int than the doublet.
Still Item level doesn't mean they are the same or stronger. Transitional gear will have oddly placed stats because it can be altered as its being pushed into its next stage.
If you look at it in any way other than its in transition to the next stage of weaponry, you are looking at it completely wrong. Animus isn't supposed to be better than the Solidarity gear or the High Allagan gear.
The Weathered Solidarity items are also transitional gear. Once you finished with them, they increase in power. -
03-31-2014, 10:53 AMBasso
The only thing im saying right now is atma should be better then zenit, im not saying how far better, just better, some color for the insane atma fate grinding is just really really disappointing.
and of course power differs even through the same itemlevel, and your table, except for the normal militia robe, the power of the items is the same, sure diffrent stats but overall the same.
and if not for the power of the item what is the ilevel for? -
03-31-2014, 10:58 AMDjeseritIt is better, after you finish the first book, and every book after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso
iLevel is there to determine the maximum stat that a given item can have. -
03-31-2014, 11:08 AMXanderOlivieriYour stats are what make your power. If you have overall less stats in an item with the same level, then that item is weaker than another gear of the same level with higher stats. The new Crit Healing stat Armor is a Scholar's best gear while its almost useless on a White Mage who needs the Mind to raise the power of their heals. Both healers would have to have two different sets of gear because of the core difference in their play styles, but that's only when comparing two different Classes/Jobs need for stats in relation to gear's usefulness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso
The HQ armor, un-melded is weaker than dungeon gear. Normal Quality is drastically weaker with the same item level. Item level doesn't mean that they are stronger as a whole. As Djeserit said, it determines the possible maximum that item can have.
Atma weapon with two books completed IS stronger than Zenith weapon. It doesn't change its name until all of the books have been completed. When you get the 12 Atma stones, your Zenith is the same as an incomplete Atma weapon. Once you do any of the books, you are in the Atma stage for real as your stats are now different.
Item level is also only good for ranking items potential. Dungeons need a specific number of averaged points to participate because your potential overall gear total needs to meet that minimum requirement. Crafted gear are the only ones with the ability to exceed pre-built stats due to 1)Quality of craftmanship and 2) Melding/overmelding. Crafted gear is worthless if you don't get HQ with Proper melded gear when you compare it to high end dungeon gear.
This is how the game was designed to work. You can't look at it in any other way than what was written out for us. -
03-31-2014, 11:09 AMParodine
1500 myth per book just to make 1 weapon marginally better + all that FATE grinding...just isn't worth it to me right now. I'd rather be using the myth to collect gear for alts, etc.
But for those who want it, have at it. -
03-31-2014, 11:10 AMSarcasmMisserThe problem is this time all the alternate weapons are very hard to get and to have the relic on par with even new tome weapons once upgraded just undermines the whole upgrade process. If you think about it this was a mistake relics made in 2.0, very early you could get a BiS weapon and totally disregard weapon progression thoughout the rest of the game. They corrected this slightly by buffing allagan weapons, and in this patch they have balanced it by making a mindless grind weapon a upgrade above 2.1 gear but in no way an invalidation of other gear options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso
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03-31-2014, 11:19 AMNintenPyjak64I said this in another thread and I'll say it here: Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to get your atma.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parodine
I'm not working on an atma at this time and here's why: Weathered Book of Spades for my SMN gives me better stats then Veil of Wiyu Animus, and SMN is my current main. While I could go for the Atmas as WHM, I'd rather do what you say and use Myth for gear. I don't dislike the atma system, in fact I find a ton of potential, but right now I have other priorities -
03-31-2014, 11:50 AMGrembo
Bravura (fully upgraded) is probably the best axe for an MT right now, until people can start laying their hands on those high allagan weapons.
Wave axe and Conquerer look more suited to OT's with their secondary stats focusing on crit and det.
Put the work in to get the one you want or move on to something else. simple. -
03-31-2014, 11:56 AMSarcasmMisser
You would take 40 parry over an increase of weapon damage, 5 strength and 7 vitality? Don't be one of those people who severely overvalue secondary stats.
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03-31-2014, 12:05 PMGremboI was strictly talking i100 weapons, so the weathered conquerer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser
We can ignore the 3 weeks it takes to get that and the unconfirmed drop you need to upgrade it if you want to say that an i110 weapon is superior to the i100 ones, sure. -
03-31-2014, 01:02 PMBasso
Still, not about how strong it should be, god i understand your points, but after that shitload of grinding fates, the atma weapon should be better then the zenith.
Doesnt Matter if it be one or thousand damage more, i feel square enix folled us there somewhat...... -
03-31-2014, 01:21 PMXanderOlivieriYou don't seem to get what we're saying or at least what I've been saying. Its a transitional weapon that you improve before it changes into the Animus. It is as good as it is supposed to be. Atma IS better than Zenith. You HAVE to do the books and the stat changes are still Atma. You are only looking at a small portion of the actual item. You are looking at the weapons incorrectly. We were not fooled in any way shape or form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basso
It was made the way it was made purposefully and is only in its first stage of development. This is the same as complaining about a car's design when you've only seen the parts before they've even started putting it together. Zenith and Atma before books are parts to the finished Animus, which is only a part to the entirety of the Zodiac Weapon. Atma is us assembling the pieces we need to get started on building our weapon. It has many different stat upgraded phases.
It is as strong as its supposed to be. Its as strong as it should be.
I think its well worth the investment. There will always be things better than it. From my casual stand point, its still something that gives me a long term goal, though with 2/12 now in my possession I feel 2 steps closer to it already~ It most certainly won't be a waste for me. -
03-31-2014, 02:14 PMNutz
So were there a lot of people completely unaware that the atma weapons didn't have a stat upgrade immediately? It was pretty obvious from the database alone. The ilvl increases to accommodate increased stats as you complete books (this way they don't have to make a new item for every increase, let alone every combination of stats since you can do them in whatever order you like). They've also said that the weapons will continue to upgrade through 2.25, 2.3 and onward, so it's possible that having completed all of the available quests in 2.25 it will be ilvl 110 (with or without stats to match). Personally I'd expect zodiac weapons to be ilvl 110 (with full stats) after the 2.3 quests. I don't see them ever making them stronger than the current best Coil (or similar) weapon, but probably second best.
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03-31-2014, 02:31 PMSfarzoso
I love how OP post without knowing anything. LUCKILY FOR YOU GUYS I HAVE THE SCREENSHOT THAT WILL EXPLAIN ALL FOR YOU!
Aww what we have..OH LOOK! Higher damage on weapon! more block on shield! What's this ?! A first book to increase stats!
http://i.imgur.com/5dnyEAK.jpg -
03-31-2014, 02:40 PMJeh11
hum, the +2 Vitality stat is for the Curtana after completing the book or its a character perma stat bonus?
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03-31-2014, 02:43 PMSfarzosothat goes permenantly on the weaponQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeh11
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03-31-2014, 03:24 PMchococosooooooo...........Quote:
Originally Posted by Sfarzoso
where's the higher dmg? -
03-31-2014, 05:24 PMDhex
(12) Atma upgrade gives nothing but a cosmetic change and unlocks the Booklets (1500 Myth per Book) to upgrade the actual stats.
After endlessly farming the FATE(s) section you get essentially a vanity change and ilv100 moniker - the actual increases come from endlessly farming Dungeons to purchase Booklets to farm Enemies, Dungeons, FATE(s), and Leves.
Zodiac: Grinding to unlock a grind to unlock specified grinding.
No innate weapon damage increase going Zenith->Atma either. -
03-31-2014, 06:14 PMKuwagami
For those who aren't aware, the final upgrade atma+books > animus upgrades the damage. Until you evolve it, the atma is just a iL100 weapon with iL100 stats and iL90 damage
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03-31-2014, 09:41 PMVladislavNeed to do books to unlock , after turn in atmas npc give only 6 books to choose (that give stats) , other 6 maybe something diff like and will give actual dmg or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by chococo
PS: I will laugh if books will req to kill ex in order to proceed :D -
04-01-2014, 01:51 AMXanderOlivieriThe 6 is for Gladiator only cause you have two relics. Everyone else has 4 books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladislav