2,100 Shards?

Spicy Tomato Relish:

Dzemael Tomato
Cinnamon
Table Salt
Dark Vinegar

Fire Shard x11
Water Shard x10

So that's going to be 2,100 shards per stack or in other words 50k in shard costs alone. With capped shards I can make 4.5 stacks and be zeroed out.

Why so many damned shards for consumables? >_<

You can't even get shards all that quickly as you took breaking clusters and crystals into them away. You are basically bankrolling the gilsellers operations as they known the money is currently in bot farming shards and selling them to players. Thanks SE.

Besides this small things love the rest of the patch though. Look forward to a bigger and better things.

do i smell Cluster burst down to crystal to shards?

Food's gonna be super expensive.

inb4 "crafters are so greedy y so high?!"

It's an ingredient, not a meal.

Every crafter class is getting a new 10/11 shard recipe.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Food's gonna be super expensive.

inb4 "crafters are so greedy y so high?!"

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Food is already expensive because of the compounding shard/crystal costs of intermediary ingredients.

There's really no getting around that SE hates crafters. If it weren't for the RMT bots, shards/crystals would be 10x more expensive.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Food's gonna be super expensive.

inb4 "crafters are so greedy y so high?!"

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Rejoice as cooks return to how things were in 2.0. 10k per serving lol.

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Originally Posted by Zourin

Food is already expensive because of the compounding shard/crystal costs of intermediary ingredients.

There's really no getting around that SE hates crafters. If it weren't for the RMT bots, shards/crystals would be 10x more expensive.

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I imagine that the new ventures will essentially turn our retainers into sanctioned crystal-gathering bots. That's certainly what I'm planning to use mine for 90% of the time.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

I imagine that the new ventures will essentially turn our retainers into sanctioned crystal-gathering bots. That's certainly what I'm planning to use mine for 90% of the time.

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This. I might even buy another retainer and name it Crystal Slave.

Either typo.
Or SE is in cahoots with RMT in secret.
Or SE just likes tormenting crafters.
Developers were tipsy at that moment in time.

All in all I had a laugh XD This will probably be changed considering the use duration and mats needed ratio.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

do i smell Cluster burst down to crystal to shards?

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Hold up. We can't already do that?

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Originally Posted by FJerome

I imagine that the new ventures will essentially turn our retainers into sanctioned crystal-gathering bots. That's certainly what I'm planning to use mine for 90% of the time.

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Its' a possibility, but as long as RMT botters have a presence, it's almost always more time efficient to harvest something else that's worth more, sell it, and buy the shards with the funds. As long as RMT provides a nearly bottomless supply, prices can stay at minimal levels. I never thought RMT could have an upside, but there it is.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Hold up. We can't already do that?

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Only in our wildest dreams.

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Originally Posted by Cocytus

Spicy Tomato Relish:

Dzemael Tomato
Cinnamon
Table Salt
Dark Vinegar

Fire Shard x11
Water Shard x10

So that's going to be 2,100 shards per stack or in other words 50k in shard costs alone. With capped shards I can make 4.5 stacks and be zeroed out.

Why so many damned shards for consumables? >_<

You can't even get shards all that quickly as you took breaking clusters and crystals into them away. You are basically bankrolling the gilsellers operations as they known the money is currently in bot farming shards and selling them to players. Thanks SE.

Besides this small things love the rest of the patch though. Look forward to a bigger and better things.

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Are you sure the recipe only yields one? Most ingredient recipes yield 3-6 per craft.

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Originally Posted by Cocytus

So that's going to be 2,100 shards per stack or in other words 50k in shard costs alone. With capped shards I can make 4.5 stacks and be zeroed out.

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That really not that much for shards compared to what they use to be if you saying only 50k for the 2100 shards that only 23 gil a shard, now if they were at their former high prices I could see your point when there were going for 75 a piece which then would of been 157k.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

That really not that much for shards compared to what they use to be if you saying only 50k for the 2100 shards that only 23 gil a shard, now if they were at their former high prices I could see your point when there were going for 75 a piece which then would of been 157k.

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That's exactly the problem, this particular recipe is susceptible to market fluctuations.

Tbh, it would be better if it was 3 fire/water crystals, instead of a higher amount of a lesser shard. Difficulty in shards needed should be the tier of quality, not quantity (unless it is a special recipe like pets and whatnot).

Random question but
Why do you need a full stack of any sort of food right now, though?
It won't vanish when you die so it's 30m of buff up, that's 49 Hours and 30 Minutes of food buff upkeep...

Do you sincerely need that much within the entire month? That's 6 days worth of 8-hour sessions and even if you're pulling that off you're definitely not going to keep food up all that time.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Hold up. We can't already do that?

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Only in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by chocomaid

That's exactly the problem, this particular recipe is susceptible to market fluctuations.

Tbh, it would be better if it was 3 fire/water crystals, instead of a higher amount of a lesser shard. Difficulty in shards needed should be the tier of quality, not quantity (unless it is a special recipe like pets and whatnot).

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susceptible pssh.... crystal prices on balmung have been in the toilet for quite some time now

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Originally Posted by Skies

Random question but
Why do you need a full stack of any sort of food right now, though?

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Selling.
Giving to your FC/Static members.
Sharing.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

susceptible pssh.... crystal prices on balmung have been in the toilet for quite some time now

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That is why I said susceptible, not guaranteed lol. You seem to have an idea that price will stay like that forever, it may rise it may drop, susceptible can go either way :) If there is enough demand for it, it will rise.

I agree with Nyne on this. Ingredient recipes often yield a good amount of product (Smooth Butter, Tomato Sauce, Maple Syrup/Sugar, to name a few) per synth, so I wouldn't see much reason to worry about shards more than before. Besides, it's difficult to believe crafters would want more than 99 of a particular ingredient unless they're looking to mass-produce NQ meals (which is even less believable at 50) or the desired recipe requires more than one of that ingredient (Button Mushrooms, for example).

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Originally Posted by chocomaid

That is why I said susceptible, not guaranteed lol. You seem to have an idea that price will stay like that forever, it may rise it may drop, susceptible can go either way :) If there is enough demand for it, it will rise.

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Yes I do not see prices going up anytime soon cause shards are plagued by undercutting the most so people will undercut themselves out of any profit and prices will remain low due to undercutting.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Hold up. We can't already do that?

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In 1.xx alchemists could break crystals and clusters into their lesser parts but that was removed with 2.0 Beta. Similarly, many of the non CUL recipes that would make multiple items (ingots, lumber, cloth, etc) at a time were removed. No explanation ever given as to why (as far as I saw at least) but yeah, bye bye crystal breaking.

ya when it come down to the markets ya with ho things have been going pricing

This will help the usually non-selling food products pop back into market...not!

I can only hope this is like with some other things and each synthesis turns out 4-6 per. The reason I'm upset about the shard cost here vs with the other synthesis that cost 21 shards for other DoH is you don't consume your armor or weapons and they sure as hell don't only last 30-40 minuets.

If it comes out to 6 per synthesis or even 4 I could deal with the synthesis costs but if its only 1 per like some of the pre-ingredients then its going to be extremely costly to make whatever this will be used for to craft food wise. And for what honestly a small stat boost that is barely noticeable at best in most cases. LoL. We will see though.

Cross your fingers ladies and gents. This will be really awesome or really ugly. Yet to be seen. :)

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Originally Posted by meJojo

It's an ingredient, not a meal.

Every crafter class is getting a new 10/11 shard recipe.

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Good catch, if anything this synth is used for the Tool upgrade quest if all crafts have a similar shard use. Depending on how many one has to make I see this as more of a means to make use of the rare materials as well as reducing a bit of the shards in the market. Since it has no other utility then being an ingredient, I'm going to assume it's for the DOH quest.

This has been an atrocious problem with the crafting system in general from day 1 and there's been no indication that SE care about changing it. It's also the biggest source of RMT gil in the entire game because they can simply bot-farm shards for days and people will buy them even when we all know the only people marketing shards are bots, because nobody wants to farm shards manually.

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Originally Posted by Cocytus

If it comes out to 6 per synthesis or even 4 I could deal with the synthesis costs but if its only 1 per like some of the pre-ingredients then its going to be extremely And for what honestly a small stat boost that is barely noticeable at best in most cases. LoL. We will see though.

Cross your fingers ladies and gents. This will be really awesome or really ugly. Yet to be seen. :)

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Every Coi runner will take any stat boast they can for a good 1-2months, can't go in with uber gears anymore. Same with potions of vit/int/str/dex/mnd .That's how 2.0 T4 was for a while. Groups just couldn't afford to not risk everything for that single phase/moment.

I would think some of the 46 - 49 recipes would be better served by requiring crystals not shards. going through 2k fire shards doesn't take very long with cul.

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Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem

This has been an atrocious problem with the crafting system in general from day 1 and there's been no indication that SE care about changing it. It's also the biggest source of RMT gil in the entire game because they can simply bot-farm shards for days and people will buy them even when we all know the only people marketing shards are bots, because nobody wants to farm shards manually.

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A bit of hyperbole there. I farm shards in my down time, like when I'm waiting for duty finder or for my group to form. I get shards as rewards for treasure maps. Some of them I use, some I contribute to my free company, the rest I sell on the Market Boards in small (<500) batches. So not ALL the people selling shards are bots. Some of us are real people.

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Originally Posted by mbncd

In 1.xx alchemists could break crystals and clusters into their lesser parts but that was removed with 2.0 Beta. Similarly, many of the non CUL recipes that would make multiple items (ingots, lumber, cloth, etc) at a time were removed. No explanation ever given as to why (as far as I saw at least) but yeah, bye bye crystal breaking.

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This need to be brought back, especially breaking up clusters.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

I imagine that the new ventures will essentially turn our retainers into sanctioned crystal-gathering bots. That's certainly what I'm planning to use mine for 90% of the time.

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Was gathering shards/crystals/clusters on the list of Venture items? or did i miss something? Purchasing 2 More if this is the case! I had almost retired from manually gathering shards anticipating crystal/cluster recipes. This through a nice sized wrench into the pot. Let's hope the botters get busy soon!

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Originally Posted by Skies

Random question but
Why do you need a full stack of any sort of food right now, though?
It won't vanish when you die so it's 30m of buff up, that's 49 Hours and 30 Minutes of food buff upkeep...

Do you sincerely need that much within the entire month? That's 6 days worth of 8-hour sessions and even if you're pulling that off you're definitely not going to keep food up all that time.

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People craft a full stack.

THEN they:
1. Split said food up amongst FC/raid teammates that need said food
or.
2. They store it and personally use it as needed (it only takes up 1 inventory stack as opposed to the 6+ inventory spaces the ingrediants can take)
3. It is easier to give up one afternoon gathering/crafting your 'food to last the entire patch' than it is to piece-meal it for some

and then there's the market/selling/buying
4. Some people sell in full-stacks again, because hey, takes up less room in my retainer/sale spots.
-People buy in full stacks for the reasons above (more efficient to just buy/split amongst team/save and use as needed etc)
5. Others prefer to craft 1-2 full stacks at a time (again, easier for them to dedicate 1-2 days a week to crafting than craft a little every day)
-They however, sell their wares in smaller portions.
6. The actual recipe in question appears to be an ingrediant, NOT a meal. Ingrediants tend to be bought/sold and crafted in full stacks. (or at least stored that way...again, easier to store 1 full stack of a finished ingrediant, than 3+ stacks of the mats to make the ingrediant)

So yes, people really DO craft this kind of thing by the STACK.
And yes, shard ratios on consumables are retarded....they have been for quite some time. 'Consumables' should either 'make more than 1' for the shards needed/use crystals instead of shards (less crystals), or just reduce the dang shard counts a little. It's unfair that a a piece of gear can use the same shard/mat ratio, require the same crafter 'skill' but be sold for 4-6times+ the same profit as one crafted consumable item can be sold for using a recipe requiring the same amount of shards/materials. Yes, consumables can be sold as a stack where as gear must be sold individually, but it's also assumed that the profit ratio comes from the quanity you can sell consumables in...not just quality. Well in order for this to be fair, then consumable crafting should either be faster, cheaper on shard costs, or 1 synth=multiple items.

Otherwise, it'll always be unfair that a Weaver can use 11 shards/4 mats and in 1 synth=20K profit, but a Culinarian using the same shards/mat ratio would only make 2k for each synth, requiring that they spend 10 times more in mats and time to produce the same profit margin. I'm not saying food should be expensive (it actually shouldn't be), but I'm saying the system now highly penalizes consumable crafters, and jacks up their costs considerably compared to the non-consumable crafts.

I find myself already setting up 1 day to farm shards, and now it looks like it will have to be 2 days...one of these days I'm gonna say no to doing all endgame content for a while and farm up 9999 of every shard, but you know what, that would only last me a day 2 days at max. I mean I make food for money (not a lot of people are willing to go through the effort of making food so its a smaller market even on my server Hyperion, which if you know anything was full forever), but I also make food for my fc, while we have a lot of crafters up to 50 two star crafts, not many of them main cul like I do.

I don't even know how you change this, high shard cost keeps people out, but yet it also sucks for us career cul.

I always have a full stack of food on me, the reasoning it will last a while, why continuously make/buy stacks of 10-20, when you can just have a stack of 99 in your inventory and it lasts a while. If you're doing higher level end game content with pugs you can burn through some food haha. But of course that's why I stopped eating food in anything easier than t4.

FYI, I don't think this is actually a FOOD at all. Or even an ingredient. It's something you have to turn in lots of to get the lvl 70 frying pan.