to create a sense of nervousness..

requires a risk vs. reward system. to enter battle and travel the world with no concequences is the same as playing a lifeless mmo that is devoid of danger, thrill, and opportunistic excitement. a meaningful death penalty transforms a meaningless world.

Sounds about right.

But why is a sense of nervousness good again?

i have to disagree. a severe death penalty promotes cautious and less exciting play. a penalty too strict leads to people fighting mobs that have no chance of beating them so that they don't have a chance to die. i prefer to fight tougher mobs knowing that it will take everything going well to win.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i have to disagree. a severe death penalty promotes cautious and less exciting play. a penalty too strict leads to people fighting mobs that have no chance of beating them so that they don't have a chance to die. i prefer to fight tougher mobs knowing that it will take everything going well to win.

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Yes, thank you. For most of my time in FFXI, nobody wanted to do some of the more obscure NMs (like Vuloptuous Vivian) and people stuck to leveling on crabs and tame, boring mobs through most levels. It wasn't fun at all, because more than half of the game world went unused and unexplored. The risk was too big for rewards that were too small.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i have to disagree. a severe death penalty promotes cautious and less exciting play. a penalty too strict leads to people fighting mobs that have no chance of beating them so that they don't have a chance to die. i prefer to fight tougher mobs knowing that it will take everything going well to win.

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I agree.

Creating too harsh of death penalties (such as loss of XP, loss of items, deleted character, etc.) removes some of the fun in a game. I think the current death penalties (loss of travel time and a small debuff) are enough. Nothing else needs to be added to it.

I agree with those who'd disagreed with OP.

I'd rather play Resident Evil 2 if I wanted to lose all confidence in my ability to kill monsters

I think death penalties have to walk a fine line because if it is too light you end up with zerg tactics (which are NOT fun), but if it is too harsh players will stick to tried and true methods and will poo-poo any kind of experimentation or "outside the box" thinking (also NOT fun).

there needs to be some sense of possible loss that make you take things carefully to add excitement, is not the same to loose travel time than a little more severe penalty, that would make you think some tactics before hand and to pay attention to your surroundings.

In my OP. the current death penalty is a joke really, you can go like kamikaze to any mob without caring the consequences, because you know that after 3 mins you will be like new and ready for more, that lowers a lot the excitement for me and i dont think im the only one.

Someone else said something about Resident Evil 2 (btw thats not lack of confidence you get there) and thats the fun factor we need, in that game being without ammo would stress anyone or not having medicine as backup, you were immerse looking your surroundings hoping to get what you needed soon or get trough without damage. In FF XI there was a similar fear factor, especially when you were in a place you didnt know or when some party asked you to go to their camp to join them and had to run all the way passing trough lot of aggro mobs that if you werent careful you probably wouldnt make it to the party camp.

Thats what i think the game needs, theres no sense of accomplishment like getting to certain zone dodging powerful aggro mobs, or having a difficult fight with consequences if you die.

They should add something severe to the mix.

0.02

Something needs to be done to make death a negative, something that should be avoided at all cost.

Make it progress or something

Single weakness: 3min weakness 50% Decrease in attack (That is fine)
Double weakness: Increase the weakness to like 5 mins
Triple Weakness: Increase the weakness to 8 mins and keep the cannot attack thing.

You can use The different level raise spells to lessen each of the effects.

atm someone dies, then they instantly start zerging again.... No one cares if they die, no one is careful, no one watches agro.... it is sorta just sad.

I really hope they are making the dungeons where if someone agros it wipes the whole group. You know make it where noobness will severely hurt the event.

More durability loss on death would be pretty fine IMO, but don't let death durability occur below 50% durability.

The debuff which can already stop you from finishing leves, and the looooong way you have to walk again after getting killed on a journey are already enough for me to be kind of careful not to die.
At least it spares me the disappointment and anger from losing exp.

I'd never play a game like Resident Evil, but suspense is a good thing and not totally new to FF.
I remember running around in a dungeon in FF III, on the 10th of 11 floors, severly hurt, without any items which could heal you, with only enough MP left to once heal the party up and I thought something like "Please don't let some random mob pop up now, let me make it to the boss room without random fights, please don't let some random mob pop up now,.."
Because if you failed, you had to start all over again from where you saved for the last time (which you couldn't do inside the dungeon).

In FF XIV though, this kind of suspence is missing.
I'm fine with it the way it is, but I don't mind it being changed either.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i have to disagree. a severe death penalty promotes cautious and less exciting play. a penalty too strict leads to people fighting mobs that have no chance of beating them so that they don't have a chance to die. i prefer to fight tougher mobs knowing that it will take everything going well to win.

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I loved being a galka beastmaster in ff11 and my chr being so darn awful that i risked dying even trying to charm a dc mob in the 60s in The Boyhda Tree lol.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Yes, thank you. For most of my time in FFXI, nobody wanted to do some of the more obscure NMs (like Vuloptuous Vivian) and people stuck to leveling on crabs and tame, boring mobs through most levels. It wasn't fun at all, because more than half of the game world went unused and unexplored. The risk was too big for rewards that were too small.

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I lost like 6 lvls on blm once tryin to kill Jorg in the most retarded way ever and i know i lost at least 4 lvls trying to kill P warden lol then i would get asinine comments from ls members asking me why my blm and pld were not 75 anymore ....... durp durp zombieing HNMS to death noob lses.

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i have to disagree. a severe death penalty promotes cautious and less exciting play. a penalty too strict leads to people fighting mobs that have no chance of beating them so that they don't have a chance to die. i prefer to fight tougher mobs knowing that it will take everything going well to win.

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well you dont have to have a party in ffxiv.

Current death penalty is worthless.. I didn't like how much XP you lost in FFXI... but losing XP doesn't bother me.. just not as much as XI. SOMETHING other then a 3 minute cool down needs to be done...

Wow, really? Your argument for this MMO being lifeless is that there is no death penalty?

Next.

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Originally Posted by indira

well you dont have to have a party in ffxiv.

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oh wow and do what walk right over mobs that are 10 levels above me. that is the cap of what i get sp on. not to mention did i day a word about a party? i can solo the r60's as my r50's without the help of a party.

the point is if then penalty becomes too tough more people stop fighting the tougher mobs to test themselves and go over to the tried and true been there and done that mobs. that does not add excitement. it adds boredom.

the penalty may be a little too light at this point, but there is also a fine line between where it is now and too much of a penalty.

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Originally Posted by Verecund

Wow, really? Your argument for this MMO being lifeless is that there is no death penalty?

Next.

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Yep. The inconvenience that death provides now is more than enough. Durability penalty, sitting on your butt for 3-5 minutes, and/or having to run back is plenty enough. Not to mention the possibility of losing out on your NM/claim if you're doing open world stuff.

Actually setting your character back is awful design that has thankfully disappeared.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i have to disagree. a severe death penalty promotes cautious and less exciting play. a penalty too strict leads to people fighting mobs that have no chance of beating them so that they don't have a chance to die. i prefer to fight tougher mobs knowing that it will take everything going well to win.

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this

/10chars

Oh my god! Please for the love of something! Please stop making Death Penalty threads. If the developers ever changed their minds and make it so you de-rank/de-level, because of enough people complain about something insignificant right now. I'll go crazy.

Look at the other damn threads made. Everyone complains about. How's its good enough, too lenient, too strict. Atleast I give an example, no one ever comments on it.

So with another thread started I shall post my idea again.

Copying and pasting from another thread.

Idea for a penalty if you all really want one.

1. 75% Movement speed reduction.
2. Blood Rite effect
3. All Abilities used in weakness become 10 Minute cool-downs.
4. Anima cost returning upon death -10 Anima cost.
5. All stats reduced to 1 under weakness.
6. Enmity greatly increased when near an engaged enemy over time.

This will make zerging hard, and death warping negated.

With the blood rite effect if you have 100 hp and you attack the mob, you'll lose 10 hp. If you have 10 hp left and you attack again, boom your dead again even if the mob doesn't attack. If you're bleeding a lot and you move around, what happens, you make the injury worse.

Making cooldown last longer when weakened, will definitely keep anyone from zerging a monster. And with stats reduced to one why bother attack anyway. Just by standing near the mob it will know you're weak and will want to kill you, so after standing near it long enough it will turn towards you even if the tank has had hate for a while.

Seriously, for you all that complain for a penalty that you lose sp and rank. I hope, HOPE, everyone who asks for it gets their rank reduced to rank 1 again, and lose all your items/gil. Because the idea of this rank loss is flipping retarded. I mean I have seen some pretty bad ideas in threads or people saying really dumb (I do too, I am not leaving myself out of this). SP/Rank loss, anyone who agrees with this, you need help.

Make it a debt at worst. You die enough you get like a 600k sp debt. You get 300 sp, 150 goes to your rank, the other goes to the debt. And before anyone says "Oh what about max ranked people, it won't affect them". It won't right now, but if they bring a merit system for the max ranked people they will suffer from it as well.

If my example of debt sucks, and you can't understand it. Look up Everquest online Adventures for the PS2 not Everquest I or II for the pc. Read how there debt system worked.

I think our death penalty is fine as is. What I would much more welcome, with open arms, is enemies with the strength and ability to actually take me down.

I haven't KO'd since the egg event, and it is not that I haven't been trying!

oh and

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

I loved being a galka beastmaster in ff11 and my chr being so darn awful that i risked dying even trying to charm a dc mob in the 60s in The Boyhda Tree lol.

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BST high five :D my taru BST hp knows well of such risky business

First of all ... a harsh death penalty with the condition the game is in now will make XIV lose even more players, mostly because many of them are complete babies about everything. Second ... Jinrya's options seem viable for penalty. And third ... I agree with everyone else, give this topic a rest -.-

if there is a death penalty, ppl will stop help each other.

A- Can You Help Me?
B- am I going to die?
A- Not Sure, but it is not easy task.
B- So Sorry, I can't help you.

yeah what happened to raise and reraise

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

1. 75% Movement speed reduction.
2. Blood Rite effect
3. All Abilities used in weakness become 10 Minute cool-downs.
4. Anima cost returning upon death -10 Anima cost.
5. All stats reduced to 1 under weakness.
6. Enmity greatly increased when near an engaged enemy over time.

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1. This one is kinda pointless unless the distance needed to get your objectives in Leve is cut (I believe it is, or at least thought about)
2. This is one I can get behind, I mean you've just been "KO'ed" by a nasty oversized animal your bound to have serious cuts that are gonna bleed a lot. You'd have to change "weakness" to "bleed out".
3. This is kinda too harsh, not got more to say on this.
4. Same verdict as 3, We currently regain 1 anima per 4hrs. I could see this being sort of viable if the regen was more like 1 per 2-4hrs + 1 per 150-300 steps taken (similar to the HP regen that FFVII's Cat's bell had).
5. When Stats are fixed I can see this as being fair...I mean its called "Weakness" show it :P
6. This one is kinda pointless and exploitable, example: A healer spamming cures on a recently KO'ed tank taking all the hate while everyone else piles on the poor creature

as it stands now, Death penalty is ok. Add option 2 and 5 and it'll be better (If penalties are actually a good thing?...gosh you people are weird lol)