Why are they nerfing content already?

The first expansion isn't even out yet. There's no point in doing challenging content when they nerf it before it's completely outdated.

Really, really bad sign for the direction the game is going to take imo.

If you leave can I have your stuff.

I think you underestimate just how unskilled some players in this game are.

Because ilvl 90 is the new darklight all the content being nerfed is no longer current content. Helps ease new players into the current tier of raiding.

oh well at least demon wall will be more like the actual demon wall bees were never in his fight!

hmm actually when patch 2.2 come out, every thing we are doing now and since 2.1 will be outdated. Just take a look @ stuff from 2.0 to 2.1. those things are tottaly outdated. i havent done a single AK, WP or Castrum when 2.1 came out. so yeah everything that we have done right now will be outdated for most of the pepeol.

Yoshi will always nerf old stuff so new players or Bad players can reach the new content, be happy and keep putting money in SE Pocket.
you better get used to it, because every patch it will be the same cycle over and over.

em cuse when 2.2 hits that content will be outdated since u will be getting ilvl90 at the same rate u got ilvl70 so there is no real reason to farm Coil or the ex primals aside from doing to access the next tier and maybe get the new tomestone which i doubt ppl will do when they can just farm 4man for that

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

Really, really bad sign for the direction the game is going to take imo.

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Ten topics on this so I'll just hit you with a religious quote from some random prophet:

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

All of the echo buffs can be completely ignored if you desire them to be. You don't have to play with them activated. You don't have to join groups that want to use them. You can complete ALL echo content at its original difficulty anytime you want. This is not a "NERF" its an "OPTION." You can complete it with or without the ECHO. Make a non-echo Coil party to experience the original difficulty; the echo isn't stopping you from doing so.

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I'm almost willing to bet the OP will be spamming Coil2 for gear and the new dungeons for tomes and overgear the old content (which is nerfing it in its own way)

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

oh well at least demon wall will be more like the actual demon wall bees were never in his fight!

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THEY TOOK OUT MY BEE'S!

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

THEY TOOK OUT MY BEE'S!

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well at least this means you can't get stuck on demon wall anymore (because 1 player can carry you through it)

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

oh well at least demon wall will be more like the actual demon wall bees were never in his fight!

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

THEY TOOK OUT MY BEE'S!

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You act like there were actually bees in the fight in the first place.

They refreshing endgame....making old content still meaningful ( myth tomes ) and giving us a ton of new content. I could cry for this to have happened to any of my previous mmos....

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

The first expansion isn't even out yet. There's no point in doing challenging content when they nerf it before it's completely outdated.

Really, really bad sign for the direction the game is going to take imo.

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I can't understand either, especially when there is so few high level raids and dungeons encounter.

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I could cry for this to have happened to any of my previous mmos....

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You could just have played wow.

Its to help new players get to the newer stuff faster, if you already completed it why are you complaining than. You are not be affected, you are just pissed because you already surpassed the stuff. Don't you want new players to get to where you are at with short time, what if your real life friends decided to play the game all of sudden. I am sure you would want them to catch up to where you are at as fast as they could and that is what this does.

Nerf isn't really a nerf but its a gate way for new players to catch up. They already explained how to get the buffs not to be apply if you really dont want to see the buffs. Also the buffs are even lower for the more recent content like Primal EXs

Buys casual game.
Looks for challenging content.

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Originally Posted by Davionx

Buys casual game.
Looks for challenging content.

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It's that there isn't a lot of content right now, so speeding people through what's already there doesn't make sense. I'd rather level an alt through content that's as challenging as it ever was than speed through it because things have been nerfed.

And I realize you can turn it off, but it's like the buff that happened for ICC during Wrath of the Lich King. Maybe .1% of people turned it off once it was made available. Once it's there, it's there.

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to help new players get to the newer stuff faster, if you already completed it why are you complaining than.

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I 'm affected because when I ll be rolling the duty finder roulette to farm my new currency I'll possibly end up in AK and sirius and end up falling asleep out of boredom because of the nerf.

I'm affected because due to the drastic increase in bcoil 2 ilvl I'll outgear bcoil 1 very quickly and won't have anything to farm outside of the new raids each weeks. Eventually, I'll only be playing one evening per week and will have to go play another games on the others like I'm currently doing.

Also, completing bcoil1 didn't have to be a requirement to enter bcoil2, it's SE who made it that way (plus newer players who didn't farm coil 1 wouldn't miss anything as the AF2 will be acquired thanks to the mythological stones, which won't have a weekly cap anymore).

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

The first expansion isn't even out yet. There's no point in doing challenging content when they nerf it before it's completely outdated.

Really, really bad sign for the direction the game is going to take imo.

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Please look forward to it.

All joking aside, you're forgetting your roots of this game: A player must work from level 1 to 50, then practice difficult dungeons and become better at their job/s. So, there is a point in doing ALL challenging content. If you have a problem with the system, the odds are the you're just impatient and need to gtfo. :D Because impatience never did anyone any good. Now log in and enjoy the game with other players. ...and take breaks from grinding shit!

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Originally Posted by rhemi1

I think you underestimate just how unskilled some players in this game are.

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There Isnt a large enough skill curve towards endgame. Just because SE handing out easy content like this still doesn't mean they will get any better as a gamer or even learn to play there game correctly. When they go out and buy Darksouls they dont even come outta bed anymore cus its too scary.

So many players from XI have actually outsmarted the devs. Like the devs didnt know players were claiming Sandworm HNM on time. The Devs designed something and didnt know how it exactly worked. Was something simple like the game would tell the server Sandworms next spawn location after its been defeated. Sandworm had like 10~20 spawn locations in many zones to fight people camping it. Ixion HNM worked same way also.

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Originally Posted by Beetle

Isnt large enough skill curve towards endgame. Just because SE handing out easy content like this still doesn't mean they will get any better as a gamer or even learn to play there game correctly. When they go out and buy Dark souls they dont even come outta there bed anymore cus its too scary.

So many players from XI have actually outsmarted the devs, like the devs didnt know players were claiming Sandworm on time.... lol they designed something and didnt know how the spawn rate/timers/locations/placeholders worked.

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Could somebody translate this please, because I'm trying to make sense of this comment, but its either missing words in places that needs them or I need to start drinking.

Because they were not done developing the end game. We didn't have much of an end game to begin with due to the short time they had to rebuild a massive MMORPG. A lot of things are a little less than what the developers probably wanted from the start. Also, it would be difficult to make the next raids relevant without a gear or power increase. I'm all for horizontal progression, and I'm a fan that regularly asks for more open world content and story content, but the current end game still needs some more depth to it, and so I'm glad that they are adding stuff in. Adding a buff in order to allow players to get through the older content is a much better solution than nerfing the older content, since it was easier to implement and preserves the original challenge.

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

It's that there isn't a lot of content right now, so speeding people through what's already there doesn't make sense. I'd rather level an alt through content that's as challenging as it ever was than speed through it because things have been nerfed.

And I realize you can turn it off, but it's like the buff that happened for ICC during Wrath of the Lich King. Maybe .1% of people turned it off once it was made available. Once it's there, it's there.

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So I notice you just bought the game.... how's Titan HM coming along using duty finder?

The echo buff is better than I expected because it not an auto 50% buff at first. In fact you'll start the battle with no buff and original challenge, and slow get stronger based on how many wipes. This is a great compromise instead of the normal across the board content nerf.

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Originally Posted by cotti

It's your fault.

Don't take me wrong! Not because of "X" kind of player or anything.

You.

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*slowly claps*

I was thinking this earlier. I figure people will flame, but in reality it is odd that SE is making old content *irrelevant* already. How long have people been complaining about lack of content, and needing more endgame? Now that we get new content and more endgame added, they are removing old content from our radar. It would have been nice to continue on as is, and have a step system for people to work up to the 'current' endgame. Instead, even the newbloods are being pushed right into it.

This all makes sense with an expansion, but just a patch it seems rather odd. Instead of having quite a breadth of content to keep everyone busy, we are going to have the same number of EX primals/Coil/lockouts as before. They could have kept it all the same, nerfed T5 a little so more casual groups cleared, and released all this great stuff.

I know I'm ranting, sorry. Just seems a shame to waste all this current good content newer/casual could still be enjoying.

So? I mean they did it in FFXI so that new players could beat old content to catch up to existing old players who have beaten most of the content.

If you wanna blame someone blame the ones who kick out people who wanna beat content but cant because elite players want only the best people in the run and cause the ones who wanna get where you are but cant because they get shoved back.

Makes me wonder, I bet you want the players who don't do very well not to catch up so you don't have to deal with them trying to join your party, kinda making sense now.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

So? I mean they did it in FFXI so that new players could beat old content to catch up to existing old players who have beaten most of the content.

If you wanna blame someone blame the ones who kick out people who wanna beat content but cant because elite players want only the best people in the run and cause the ones who wanna get where you are but cant because they get shoved back.

Makes me wonder, I bet you want the players who don't do very well not to catch up so you don't have to deal with them trying to join your party, kinda making sense now.

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It's not that at all. There have been complaints that there is a severe lack of content. The obvious answer to this is not make the current content completely irrelevant this soon in the game. There is a new tier of gear coming and the current myth gear is basically becoming the new darklight. That alone should be enough of a boost to get past the small hurdle some have, unless they are completely incompetent. They don't need to nerf content on top of that.

As for the elitist crap, that can be several things, and not going to lie, there are some serious asses out there that need a good smack with a blunt instrument, but there are people out there who just want to group with competent people, and you can't blame them for that. A bad player can screw up things to the point that certain content just becomes impossible to complete, and honestly, this game just seems to keep letting those bad players stay bad because given enough time, the developers will nerf the content so that even a mouth breather can clear it. Hurdles need to exist so there is a bit of punishment for a failure, because its failures that let us learn and improve ourselves, making us better players in the long run. It's pretty much the same argument as when fate grinding was the norm, it just bred a group of players who were max level yet didn't have a damn clue how to play their class in a group environment.

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Originally Posted by Artemed

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no fates didn't but you can keep telling yourself that.

making content easier will let players who normally couldn't do the content to be able to do it, but after it's pointless, there is no lack of content there is lack of grinding.

but alot of players don't want grinding so in the end it's considered lack of content because we don't have to spend a month in ak and wp grinding then going to the next two dungeons and grinding another month and so on and so furth, this buff affects players in no way because you only have to do titan hm once (if you only have 1 lvl 50 you wanna relic) be it buffed or not that primal is worthless now that you beat it once.

I'm going to share my experience here with you all on why I think nerfing (not talking about the stupid echo buff) the current content is not the greatest idea ever.

I decided to do a random duty roulette the other day (I got bored, go figure) and got AK, I was on tank, I had a whm, a brd, and a mnk. The brd I wasn't concerned about, his gear was decent (no best of the best, but good enough for Pharos so more than enough for AK) the mnk was subpar gear, but I figured the brd would make up for it anyways and the whm, well, whatever, as long as I do my job we really don't have to worry about the whm... Right?? WRONG.

It all went bad as soon as we got to the first boss, the brd was pulling his weight, no problem. The mnk however, whatever was the shortest distance to the target, that was where he would stand for the WHOLE fight, the only way for him to do decent DPS would have been for me to manually spin the mob for him to get his combos correct. The whm, I'm pretty sure esuna wasn't even on his bar, but we survived and moved on. On we moved to Demon wall, complete failure which turned into 2 wipes and when we won, it was only me and the brd that were still alive (this was after trying to teach them where to move and what to do to not get flung off the side in a polite manner).

We end the story at the final encounter of AK. I inform the group "please do not attack the boss / heal me / anything until I have the boss in position just to make sure the pull goes smoothly" (the brd messed this up once, but it was all good, we all make mistakes). The mnk, shortest distance to the boss for him was standing pretty much right on top of me, dead within 5 seconds. After he got raised, next closest spot was right on the dragons foot, dead again. Insert first Imminent Catastrophe. Brd takes off to murder add, whm is standing in the correct spot... Laser right on whm, I tell him to move 3 times, but he can't because he is spending every ounce of MP healing me through disease because of lack of esuna on his bar(I can only assume). First wipe, we get back to the room, and I explain that you need to remove disease as it reduces healing potency and that if you get a laser on your face, you need to run away until the ball pops up, then you can come back. See the story of first wipe, for the third and fourth wipe, you can also read the story of the first wipe. At this point, I'm obviously frustrated but what can I do? Explain in even more detail? I don't think any amount of explaining I could have done would have helped. Rage? Yeah, but then I could get reported for harassment. AFK? No, I don't want to get kicked on the last boss. Pull again? Sure, why not. Wipe 2 more times, and thankfully the whm leaves followed shortly after by the mnk.

In the end, I called in a FC member and we got the win with about 10 minutes left on the clock.

TL;DR Nerfing content just to "push people through the content faster" is not always a good thing. If you don't have some sort of learning curve you will wind up with healers that are doing the exact same thing they learned in FATE grinding (nothing) or DD that can't execute a proper rotation in your end game parties. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be in a turn 6 party trying to teach a full i90+ person the basics of their job because they walked their way through the game having their hand held the entire way.

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Originally Posted by Mikara

TL;DR Nerfing content just to "push people through the content faster" is not always a good thing. If you don't have some sort of learning curve you will wind up with healers that are doing the exact same thing they learned in FATE grinding (nothing) or DD that can't execute a proper rotation in your end game parties. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be in a turn 6 party trying to teach a full i90+ person the basics of their job because they walked their way through the game having their hand held the entire way.

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people learn what they want from content, be it easy or hard if a player refuses to learn that is the players fault not the games.
me? if i want a successful group i will do what i can to help be it rotations or more.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

no fates didn't but you can keep telling yourself that.

making content easier will let players who normally couldn't do the content to be able to do it, but after it's pointless, there is no lack of content there is lack of grinding.

but alot of players don't want grinding so in the end it's considered lack of content because we don't have to spend a month in ak and wp grinding then going to the next two dungeons and grinding another month and so on and so furth, this buff affects players in no way because you only have to do titan hm once (if you only have 1 lvl 50 you wanna relic) be it buffed or not that primal is worthless now that you beat it once.

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Learning how to beat content counts as grinding now? When the hell did this happen? The hell happened to this generation of gamers?

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

THEY TOOK OUT MY BEE'S!

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DEY TOOK OUR BERS

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Originally Posted by Artemed

Learning how to beat content counts as grinding now? When the hell did this happen? The hell happened to this generation of gamers?

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where did i ever say that?
you say there is a lack of content which there isn't there is plenty of content just instead of forcing you to do something 100times you only do it once. please read before replying.

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Originally Posted by Artemed

Learning how to beat content counts as grinding now? When the hell did this happen? The hell happened to this generation of gamers?

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They got extremely lazy by the looks of it, because apparently "people learn what they want from content", however what can you learn if the game never puts anything that remotely challenges you in it? All you will learn is how to be a detriment to people who are wanting to have a good experience.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

So I notice you just bought the game.... how's Titan HM coming along using duty finder?

The echo buff is better than I expected because it not an auto 50% buff at first. In fact you'll start the battle with no buff and original challenge, and slow get stronger based on how many wipes. This is a great compromise instead of the normal across the board content nerf.

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Lets be completely honest here, this is how it will go in the start of 99% of the groups.
"People just die quickly a couple times we get Echo buff and faceroll our way to victory"
As someone that joined a little over a month ago this basically takes my chances away to do stuff like ex primals the way they were designed.

Q: Why are they nerfing content already?

A: Because people are bad and still cant dodge landslides 6 months later

The nerf might have been premature I agree there, but I'm guessing its to prepare for what they anticipate will be a flood of new characters through the PS4 release.

Since the nerfs will hit a hard stop, and persist through the life of the game, they might be playing with an early model of releases to make old content easier for new players years down the line. Similarly to dropping the level restrictions in FFXI to help new players through old content, XIV's 2.2 nerfs will assist new players get to new content faster than the amount of time its taken us to get to the same place.

Once the patch is live, Yoshida mentioned they'll be monitoring the content to determine where a good stop is for the Echo buffs. This might help them also determine when its a good time to make old content easier and over all improve balance for future releases.

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Originally Posted by NotTheNameIWanted

The first expansion isn't even out yet. There's no point in doing challenging content when they nerf it before it's completely outdated.

Really, really bad sign for the direction the game is going to take imo.

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I call your gil.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

Lets be completely honest here, this is how it will go in the start of 99% of the groups.
"People just die quickly a couple times we get Echo buff and faceroll our way to victory"
As someone that joined a little over a month ago this basically takes my chances away to do stuff like ex primals the way they were designed.

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Well if the community exploits the system in this way, the devs will adjust it. Would you just prefer they nerf the actually content instead or give you a slightly increasing buff that can be removed?

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Originally Posted by Xayoc

I call your gil.

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Then transfer to his server and get it. That's all I can ever think when people make stupid comments like this and, "When you quit can I have your stuff?".