hopefully in the future SE stops releasing glorified latency tests and labeling them

as boss fights.

the hit detection in this game is too suck for this.


On a serious note, things do need to change. Most games have some sort of lag compensation.

Further more, things need to happen way more instant in this game, both player skills (stuns and defensive cooldowns for example) and enemy AOEs.

I completely understand that you need to be out of the AOE by the time that the cast bar finishes. That doesn't explain why when doing something like Haukke Manor I can be stunned by Dark Mist when I'm half way accross the room. If I'm still in the AOE by the time the cast bar finishes then why am I still allowed to move all the way to the other side of the room by the time the stun hits? The effects of AOE need to be way more instant. This is just deceptive and leads to (understandable) suspicion of server lag.

End game content feels like an assembly line to me.

Yeah and I have to second guess myself from time to time whether I dodged something or not even though I know it's coming already.

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That doesn't explain when doing something like Haukke Manor I can be stunned by Dark Mist when I'm half way accross the room. If I'm still in the AOE by the time the cast bar finishes then why am I still aloud to move all the way to the other side of the room by the time the stun hits? The effects of AOE need to be way more instant. This is just deceptive and leads to (understandable) suspicion of server lag.

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I hear you. All too often I run out of Dark Mist only to be frozen in place BEHIND the healer. Same dang thing in Copperbell Mines on the last boss when I'd run out of the circle.

One shot mechanics with strict timing (less than 1 second of reaction time) need to be tossed out the window. It doesn't work when technology doesn't allow everybody to have perfect latency.

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Originally Posted by jrollins89

as boss fights.

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With the exception of Monday and Tuesdays everything works for me here.

Every Boss fight is perfectly fine for me in XI. I mean you did say SE, which means you're talking about all of their MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

I hear you. All too often I run out of Dark Mist only to be frozen in place BEHIND the healer. Same dang thing in Copperbell Mines on the last boss when I'd run out of the circle.

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See, problem is - Your tanks can stun it or you can (as a DRG) or your BRD/MNK silence it. Why are people even running out of it? >.> It has such a long wind up time lol. Unless you're talking about a very specific version of it.

yes the system is not perfect, but it is slowly improving. Rome wasn't built in a day you know.

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See, problem is - Your tanks can stun it or you can (as a DRG) or your BRD/MNK silence it. Why are people even running out of it? >.> It has such a long wind up time lol. Unless you're talking about a very specific version of it.

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The problem is the tanks I'm with too often Stun other things and resistance gets built up. Same applies to Copperbell last boss. As for Bards and Monks, I rarely get paired with them in Haukke. It's usually a Summoner or Black Mage, and the Bards either Silence the "wrong" abilities or just don't try at all while the Monks forget they can silence to begin with.

I only get this issue when I'm sending 0

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

See, problem is - Your tanks can stun it or you can (as a DRG) or your BRD/MNK silence it. Why are people even running out of it? >.> It has such a long wind up time lol.

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And the problem with the community is that when you bring up legitimate points of criticism with the combat system then some people choose to put their hands over theirs and make replies that basically boil down to "lol git gut".

And I was only using Haukke as an example as the majority of players have completed it and I remember it was extremely apperant as a low level. I suppose I could have used Titan Extreme mode as an example as it is much more annoying in that fight but the majority of players haven't experienced it.

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Originally Posted by Valmar

yes the system is not perfect, but it is slowly improving. Rome wasn't built in a day you know.

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Actually that's what worries me. The correct and once for all way to fix this is implementing client-side position check (and possibly some skill check like movement interrupt spell cast), but every 'fix' they've done so far (increase server check frequency, make server-side movement prediction for Titan EX) is to avoid going that route. This doesn't give me confidence on SE.

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Originally Posted by jrollins89

And the problem with the community is that when you bring up legitimate points of criticism

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Indeed - But you also forget the flip side:

The ones who don't have issues but the said person stating it as fact that there are issues for everyone/the game itself. Why brush them aside? If it's a "legitimate point of criticism" you have to take into consideration that not everyone is having those issues.

Ahh its this old chestnut. (it's starting to look mouldy)

Something needs to be done, it should be, it won't though.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

The problem is the tanks I'm with too often Stun other things and resistance gets built up. Same applies to Copperbell last boss. As for Bards and Monks, I rarely get paired with them in Haukke. It's usually a Summoner or Black Mage, and the Bards either Silence the "wrong" abilities or just don't try at all while the Monks forget they can silence to begin with.

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It's not that we forget. It's that we have to be in a specific stance when we usually have to cycle through stances quickly or else greased lightning drops off and our DPS goes to crap while we build it up again.

At this point in time, if you're having latency issues and they are frustrating you enough... you really should move on :/ The only way SE is going to fix the root cause of them would be if it was more profitable to do so, which isn't going to happen unless the issue actually causes people to quit. Sounds harsh and all, but it's true. I've done the whole fighting to get it fixed thing, and we did get an increased positional check time.. but fixing the root cause would cost a ton of money, and take probably a year to actually re-code and implement. It's just not likely to happen.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

At this point in time, if you're having latency issues and they are frustrating you enough... you really should move on :/ The only way SE is going to fix the root cause of them would be if it was more profitable to do so, which isn't going to happen unless the issue actually causes people to quit.

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Really the best we can do is convince them to stop making fights with insta-kill mechanics on extremely strict timings. Weight of the Land was already super wonky for a ton of people so I can't really understand why they decided to make it even worse in the EX version by a) requiring you to stack up so that it is more likely to be an insta-kill move which led to b) You can't memorize the pattern and pre-move to avoid it like many people needed to for HM as you will likely get several people killed.

It's not just boss encounters. Have any of you ever noticed a buff or debuff counter actually count up? I see it all the time where my client will say I have 9 seconds left on say for example, Vengeance, and then when checked against the server, it pops back up to 10 seconds.

My latency is decent but if I haven't started moving within the first 25% of the cast bar, I'm eating whatever it was. Of course, I have also experienced instances where I'm still very clearly in a plume because I didn't react fast enough on my end and it still passes the server check so I avoid it.

The issues vary from person to person. Some have no issue at all. Others can't do Titan as a result. The inconsistency is what's most troubling.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

At this point in time, if you're having latency issues and they are frustrating you enough... you really should move on :/ The only way SE is going to fix the root cause of them would be if it was more profitable to do so, which isn't going to happen unless the issue actually causes people to quit. Sounds harsh and all, but it's true. I've done the whole fighting to get it fixed thing, and we did get an increased positional check time.. but fixing the root cause would cost a ton of money, and take probably a year to actually re-code and implement. It's just not likely to happen.

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I don't think client side checks would take a great deal of coding or cost, the problem is it "could" open up the game to cheating which is probably why they won't consider it.

"Don't stand in stuff" as a mechanic is so new and interesting, and flawlessly executed in 14, am I right? The case of Titan HM/EX is used repeatedly to illustrate how fucking awful position poling is, but an equal annoyance I personally have is how fucking boring the strategy is. I won't say its easy to execute, but most of the difficulty is artificial. The tension for me comes from wondering whether or not that AOE I moved out of on the ground will still hit me. In a perfect world where if you're not standing in Titan's piss meant you absolutely wont be hit by piss, you'd be left with an extremely boring, unoriginal design that has been around since at least the "Don't stand in the fire" days of WoW, etc.

Until SE finally un-fucks the hit detection from telegraphs, they should probably think up some more interesting boss mechanics. Or, brace yourselves, think up more interesting boss mechanics AND implement actually good hit detection. Crazy talk, I know.

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Originally Posted by Heroicbandit

The inconsistency is what's most troubling.

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It's because we know the issue lies within the route inbetween you (player) and the game's servers - Something SE actually can't fix as it's not their company having the issue. Whether people want to admit it or not, the fact XI doesn't have constant time outs, disconnects and unplayable lag (and yes if you lag in XI everything around you freezes just like in XIV) means the route where you go to XI isn't having issues.

We know the problem lies mainly with Tata Communications and Level3.net. Some even report Sky having issues. SE doesn't own those companies.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

"Don't stand in stuff" as a mechanic is so new and interesting, and flawlessly executed in 14, am I right? The case of Titan HM/EX is used repeatedly to illustrate how fucking awful position poling is, but an equal annoyance I personally have is how fucking boring the strategy is. I won't say its easy to execute, but most of the difficulty is artificial. The tension for me comes from wondering whether or not that AOE I moved out of on the ground will still hit me. In a perfect world where if you're not standing in Titan's piss meant you absolutely wont be hit by piss, you'd be left with an extremely boring, unoriginal design that has been around since at least the "Don't stand in the fire" days of WoW, etc.

Until SE finally un-fucks the hit detection from telegraphs, they should probably think up some more interesting boss mechanics. Or, brace yourselves, think up more interesting boss mechanics AND implement actually good hit detection. Crazy talk, I know.

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You make a good point, the Teratotaur boss in Temple of Qarn is a much better kind of mechanic for this game considering its limitations, in fact that whole dungeon has some really cool mechanics which could be applied to more end game content.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

It's because we know the issue lies within the route inbetween you (player) and the game's servers - Something SE actually can't fix as it's not their company having the issue. Whether people want to admit it or not, the fact XI doesn't have constant time outs, disconnects and unplayable lag (and yes if you lag in XI everything around you freezes just like in XIV) means the route where you go to XI isn't having issues.

We know the problem lies mainly with Tata Communications and Level3.net. Some even report Sky having issues. SE doesn't own those companies.

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Thing is I can see massive latency issues in FFXIV and have next to none in WoW, yes I am in Europe so there is that .. but its pretty obvious FFXIV's net code is not as robust as other MMOs on the market.

Of course it doesn't help that they expect their EU Players to connect to a server half way across the world especially with some of these boss fights.

I am interested to see what they have done with the Leviathan fight to see if they even considered this whilst making it.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

It's because we know the issue lies within the route inbetween you (player) and the game's servers - Something SE actually can't fix as it's not their company having the issue. Whether people want to admit it or not, the fact XI doesn't have constant time outs, disconnects and unplayable lag (and yes if you lag in XI everything around you freezes just like in XIV) means the route where you go to XI isn't having issues.

We know the problem lies mainly with Tata Communications and Level3.net. Some even report Sky having issues. SE doesn't own those companies.

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Assuming this game would have a dramatic improvement if this is true, then I'd still blame SE since they're paying these server providers. If I own a restaurant and the fisherman I go through is giving me terrible quality crab to serve to my customers, I'm going to find another fisherman.

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Originally Posted by Heroicbandit

Assuming this game would have a dramatic improvement if this is true, then I'd still blame SE since they're paying these server providers. If I own a restaurant and the fisherman I go through is giving me terrible quality crab to serve to my customers, I'm going to find another fisherman.

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Sadly big businesses doesn't work that way once you're in a contractual agreement. You can't just drop them off the bat, so for all any of us know they've likely been trying to get it resolved.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You make a good point, the Teratotaur boss in Temple of Qarn is a much better kind of mechanic for this game considering its limitations, in fact that whole dungeon has some really cool mechanics which could be applied to more end game content.

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I think AV-style mechanics of stacking debuffs is better. The problem with Teratotaur is that he's a glorified meat bag; as long as people step on the plates in time, there's no threat. It's a binary fight, either you clear Doom and wipe or you don't and win easily. Fights like Ultima HM are also middle-of-the-road where you have a combination of dodging, unavoidable damage, and special mechanics. You don't get punished for "lagging" the way Titan does, yet it's not a fight where you can derp repeatedly and heal through the mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Really the best we can do is convince them to stop making fights with insta-kill mechanics on extremely strict timings. Weight of the Land was already super wonky for a ton of people so I can't really understand why they decided to make it even worse in the EX version by a) requiring you to stack up so that it is more likely to be an insta-kill move which led to b) You can't memorize the pattern and pre-move to avoid it like many people needed to for HM as you will likely get several people killed.

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We could, but that would take a lot of difficulty out of the game. The issue doesn't just effect what you move out of. It can also strike when you're suppose to stun or interrupt something. If you have a fight where you can freely get hit by stuff, and all the skills take very long to cast to make sure even those experiencing issues are able to get interrupts off on time (or that they have enough time to activate a cooldown of any sort).. then where is the difficulty? I'm not really a creative type, and when you take out having to interrupt, having to use cooldowns, and having to consistently dodge, I'm just not sure what there is left that can make a fight hard. I do get the concept, and I am all for the actual thing getting fixed.. however the root of the problem is how they coded a bunch of stuff server side.. all the checks.

It is actually a lot to change, the coding for it is one of the base things that everything else works off of. It's a decision made very early on in the coding, and everything else just kinda branches off it. You change it and you have to change everything else. When you consider how much time/cost it would take to change it, test it, fix any bugs occurring because of it, change all the things that relied on it to then rely on the new thing, and fix any bugs that causes, and then implement it.. you're looking at a long time, and a large cost which probably isn't justified at this point.

The problem definitely exists, and SE could definitely address it (though there are a few that like to claim it's not in SE's court to fix). They could use client-side checks like every other MMO does. I just have completely lost any sort of faith that they will do anything other than bandaid. So my advice has switched to basically saying end game isn't for folks getting the issue. SE doesn't seem to care. In one of his interviews, Yoshi even had a laugh at people who expected to do endgame content with "3-digit ping".

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

I think AV-style mechanics of stacking debuffs is better. The problem with Teratotaur is that he's a glorified meat bag; as long as people step on the plates in time, there's no threat. It's a binary fight, either you clear Doom and wipe or you don't and win easily. Fights like Ultima HM are also middle-of-the-road where you have a combination of dodging, unavoidable damage, and special mechanics. You don't get punished for "lagging" the way Titan does, yet it's not a fight where you can derp repeatedly and heal through the mistakes.

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Sure, but maybe the doom thing would only be one aspect of the fight, in a boss situation it could be multiple plates which give off different debuffs, so it would be up to the party to decide which to stand on and which not to.

There is a lot of interesting things that could be done, you could throw in randomness to keep people on their toes, it would still require quick thinking but not on the same scale as Titan. (it would be like a game of musical statues)

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It's not that we forget. It's that we have to be in a specific stance when we usually have to cycle through stances quickly or else greased lightning drops off and our DPS goes to crap while we build it up again.

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Ah, that makes sense, then.

Tbh, this is the worst network I've ever played on and I really do mean that. Of all the MMOs I've played, this takes the cake for worst connection ever. Even runes of magic which was developed by a smaller team with less resources and f2p had a connection leagues, and I mean, LEAGUES beyond this game. I really hate complaining about it, but I mean, its a sub based game and the latency/lag/disconnects are still a huge issue. I'm already paying to play the game, the least they could do is provide a stable network to play on, I shouldn't have to use/subscribe to a VPN service just to have a fighting chance. Something seriously needs to be done.