Summoner Changes

I enjoy the Summoner Job since it's the 1st time that the Summoner is it's own job but it does need some changes
-Summoner's get the ability to summon the Primals with a instant recast time.
-The Primal drains the Summoner's MP with each attack when the player is out of MP they automatically use there signature attack and leave.
-Once the player activates the Primal's signature attack the Primal leaves.

With these suggestion it won't make Summoner's OP because of MP cost and damage loss from overuse of summoning Primals

So pretty much you want a buffed version for the FFXI Summoner? I loved the FFXI version a LOT more but the FFXIV summer is just different and we all need to try and get over that.

Frankly the only issue I have is the low number of summons we have access to. Not to mention we will have to wait for the first expansion to get any more summons even though we are about to beat leviathan in 2.2. Of course it makes sense when you realize Summoner is not a class but a job, it makes sense that it would be only half of what it should be.

Why did you make another thread?

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Originally Posted by Sheva

Frankly the only issue I have is the low number of summons we have access to. Not to mention we will have to wait for the first expansion to get any more summons even though we are about to beat leviathan in 2.2. Of course it makes sense when you realize Summoner is not a class but a job, it makes sense that it would be only half of what it should be.

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I don't think the lack of number would be as bad if the summons/egis actually did something other then spam normal attacks. The only reason SMNs have for controlling their pets is to use Garuda's Contagion and to prevent Ifrit from spamming his stun.

I really wonder if I'm alone in this... but...

I played the FFXI Summoner, and I loved the FFXI Summoner. It was my favorite job.

I now play the FFXIV Summoner, and I love the FFXIV Summoner. It is my favorite job.

They're two very different jobs but with respect to both the game lore and the overall functionality of the games, they make sense in their own way.

A long time ago, it was mentioned by the dev team that Free Companies would have the ability to 'capture' roaming primals to use at their whim. These primals would have a timer and once used, would disappear back to the world for some other FC to find and capture. This obviously hasn't been implemented or spoken about in a while... but I always hoped that the person needed to actually call upon these temporary primals once captured would be a summoner. Maybe they'd have to 'initiate' the summoning, similar to the way limit breaks are used (except this is a one time use). It's unlikely, as they don't want to give one job an advantage other jobs don't have, but... that's always been my little dream.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Why did you make another thread?

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This thread is about Summoner's leading up to gaining the ability to summon the Primals rather than a complete class overhaul.

The primals will be summoned by FC not SMN so... no.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

This thread is about Summoner's leading up to gaining the ability to summon the Primals rather than a complete class overhaul.

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It's basically the same thing.

A single human doesn't have the Aether to support a primal for any period of time, no matter how short. I don't expect them to break lore for your fantasy

Just watch. Some highly intelligent individual will make another thread why SMN sucks, should be changed or my personal favorite: bitching about Egi size.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

A long time ago, it was mentioned by the dev team that Free Companies would have the ability to 'capture' roaming primals to use at their whim.

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I kinda get the feeling that this has become a feature that is going to apply only to frontlines PvP.

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

The primals will be summoned by FC not SMN so... no.

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I really hate that idea makes you wonder whats the point in having a summoner. A summoner in FFXIV shouldn't even be called a Summoner it should be called a warlock cause truly that's what it is.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

-Summoner's get the ability to summon the Primals with a instant recast time.

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This entire post automatically qualifies as "I want to be able to summon Odin and Bahamut at any time I want with no limit." and demonstrates the posters complete lack of Reading Comprehension when it applies to the Summoner Story Arch and the Main Story Arch.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

It's basically the same thing.

A single human doesn't have the Aether to support a primal for any period of time, no matter how short. I don't expect them to break lore for your fantasy

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That isn't the only reason.

In Final Fantasy XI, an Eidolon was basically a very powerful spirit being. Though technically a wild entity, that could cause great amounts of devastation if left to its own devices, with the exception of Bahamut, Odin, and Diabolos, they were largely benevolent creatures.

Primals in FFXIV are essentially vengeful gods of destruction. Nothing more and nothing less. The tempering process makes anyone who would summon them into their slaves. The only reason the player is immune to that is because of the Echo.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

This entire post automatically qualifies as "I want to be able to summon Odin and Bahamut at any time I want with no limit." and demonstrates the posters complete lack of Reading Comprehension when it applies to the Summoner Story Arch and the Main Story Arch.

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I did place limits on summoning the Primals they drain the Summoner's MP which reduced there personal damage. Also I stated that Summoner's should have to make pacts with the Primals to reduce the cost of a Summoning them. Now the developers can tweak it by making it so when a Summoner summons a primal it drains all there MP.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

That isn't the only reason.

In Final Fantasy XI, an Eidolon was basically a very powerful spirit being. Though technically a wild entity, that could cause great amounts of devastation if left to its own devices, with the exception of Bahamut, Odin, and Diabolos, they were largely benevolent creatures.

Primals in FFXIV are essentially vengeful gods of destruction. Nothing more and nothing less. The tempering process makes anyone who would summon them into their slaves. The only reason the player is immune to that is because of the Echo.

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Summon monsters in FFXI were called Avatars, not 'eidolons' (which were the summons in FFIX and XIII). But you're right about everything else.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

It's basically the same thing.

A single human doesn't have the Aether to support a primal for any period of time, no matter how short. I don't expect them to break lore for your fantasy

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I'm pretty sure a single person has enough aether to support a primal for at least 30s not as a permanent pet since no where on my post I said I want Primals as a permanent pet. Since the Primals are aetheric beings all it would take is giving more Aether to the Egi an it will become the corresponding Primal

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Summon monsters in FFXI were called Avatars, not 'eidolons' (which were the summons in FFIX and XIII). But you're right about everything else.

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the word Eidolon and Avatar are synonyms. Using them interchangeably like that makes next to no difference in the grand scheme of things. The term basically translates into English as "Physical Corporeal Manifestation of a God" thus by the literal definition, Jesus the Christ according to Christian Tradition could be interpreted as the Eidolon or Avatar of the Abrahamic God.

The word Primal however means something entirely different. Primal signifies a raw untamed force of destructive magic made manifest. In this case it is a destructive force created when an actual God is summoned to the mortal plane against its will. You can't tame something like that.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

Just watch. Some highly intelligent individual will make another thread why SMN sucks, should be changed or my personal favorite: bitching about Egi size.

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Every body agrees that their job didn't add much to their class. Summoner's think they don't feel like summoners because they can't summon Primals. Black Mages feel like a THAUMATURGE with a few job specific skills and they don't have a personal meteor skill. Monks don't have a thousand hands of fury and Dragoons just plain complain because they don't have a cool special ability.

The Primals are Aetheric beings so any Summoner should be able to summon them for a short period of time. Right now Summoners only have enough aether to summon the Primals in their infant form which are the Egis. If Summoner's can give more aether to the Egi then it would become a Primal for a short period of time. I propose Summoner's get a skill with a instant recast time that's cast on the Egi which causes it to become the corresponding Primal for 30s and drains all the Summoner's MP when enkindle is cast or when the timer hits zero the primal does their ultimate attack and reverts to Egi form.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

If Summoner's can give more aether to the Egi then it would become a Primal for a short period of time. I propose Summoner's get a skill with a instant recast time that's cast on the Egi which causes it to become the corresponding Primal for 30s and drains all the Summoner's MP when enkindle is cast or when the timer hits zero the primal does their ultimate attack and reverts to Egi form.

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I stated an idea the same as this one last year after 2 month into the game. Having that ability where when they turn into a full primal form but not the same size as the parent just a bit smaller cause that would be stupid would be cool. And once you out of MP since it would last until your MP is gone and until you can recast enkindle then you could re summon its adults (Smaller than Perants size form) Also you would need to cast aether i think its called and also have your MP 100%. It would be silly for them to be full primal size just a bit smaller in height.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The Primals are Aetheric beings so any Summoner should be able to summon them for a short period of time. Right now Summoners only have enough aether to summon the Primals in their infant form which are the Egis.

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It's been oh so long since I've completed the SMN quest line, but if I recall the Egi aren't children. They're essentially fragments of the actual Primals that are willing to fight with you, if you can prove you're worthy enough. Lore-wise, again, SMN having Primals at their side makes NO DAMN SENSE. It's been stated that Primals require massive amounts of crystals and shards, of the same element, to be able to summon them. It's even on the FF wiki.

I want additions just as much as everyone else. Hell, we aren't the only class that wants them. Your ideas are all terrible and always have been up to this day, I'm sorry. They would never work and wouldn't make sense at all. SMN is fine the way it is for now.

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Originally Posted by Ardan

It's been oh so long since I've completed the SMN quest line, but if I recall the Egi aren't children. They're essentially fragments of the actual Primals that are willing to fight with you, if you can prove you're worthy enough. Lore-wise, again, SMN having Primals at their side makes NO DAMN SENSE. It's been stated that Primals require massive amounts of crystals and shards, of the same element, to be able to summon them. It's even on the FF .[/B]

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No it require massive amount of shards and crystal to keep Primals around permanently casting spell on the Egi to allowing it to take on the form of the corresponding primal temporarily will not break lore. Even so there is nothing in the lore that stops a Summoner from gathering up enough shards to summon the Primals

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Originally Posted by Akiza

No it require massive amount of shards and crystal to keep Primals around permanently casting spell on the Egi to allowing it to take on the form of the corresponding primal temporarily will not break lore. Even so there is nothing in the lore that stops a Summoner from gathering up enough shards to summon the Primals

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1) There is evidence is the lore that says we cannot summon a primal; go crash in your in and rewatch the cutscenes because you missed it all. In fact, speaking of their aetherial power even the egi versions we have access to are extremely powerful to the common folk.

2) The development team of this game flat out refused, not one, but several inquiries to make primals available to summoners, a) because the lead person in the team believes they are too iconic for a single being to control them b) they're already reserved for upcoming large scale encounters, like Frontlines (as someone said before).

No more posts of this nonsense please. This is XIV's Summoner, either play it, or go to console FFs or XI. It is not changing, this is a fact.

Thank you BloodPact, I have been trying to post to say almost exactly word for word what you have just said for the past 38 or so hours, except that this stupid forum has been denying me the ability to do so due to some stupid restrictions that the developers placed on the forum that limits the number of posts a person can make in a given day.

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Originally Posted by Blackcanary

I really hate that idea makes you wonder whats the point in having a summoner. A summoner in FFXIV shouldn't even be called a Summoner it should be called a warlock cause truly that's what it is.

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a warlock is a summoner that deals specifically with demons

this is like saying you should be calling a square a rhombus

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Originally Posted by jars

a warlock is a summoner that deals specifically with demons

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Actually that is inaccurate. The word Warlock comes from the Old English word Wærloga which when translated into modern English literally means "Traitor, Liar, or Enemy." The most accurate definition of a Warlock is an individual who breaks their promises on a regular basis. In fact it is entirely applicable to say that a Warlock is simply a Priest who has broken his Oaths to God. It has absolutely nothing to do with the summoning of demons.

Granted the term Warlock is most commonly used to refer to a male Witch, or one who is in league with the Devil, that is actually a fallacy introduced during the Roman and Spanish Inquisitions and is not what the word actually means in a literal sense.

To get technical, a Warlock in Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, would be the equivalent to a Summoner who willingly summons the full form of a Primal and allows it to Temper anyone it comes into contact with. Because that is a breaking of the "Oath" that a Summoner essentially makes when they first embark upon the endeavor of becoming Summoners to begin with.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

1) There is evidence is the lore that says we cannot summon a primal; go crash in your in and rewatch the cutscenes because you missed it all. In fact, speaking of their aetherial power even the egi versions we have access to are extremely powerful to the common folk.

2) The development team of this game flat out refused, not one, but several inquiries to make primals available to summoners, a) because the lead person in the team believes they are too iconic for a single being to control them b) they're already reserved for upcoming large scale encounters, like Frontlines (as someone said before).

No more posts of this nonsense please. This is XIV's Summoner, either play it, or go to console FFs or XI. It is not changing, this is a fact.

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Buffing the Egi to take on the form of the primal for 30s wouldn't break lore but summoning a primal as a permanent pet and letting it temper everyone would break lore. Besides they already destroyed an iconic role by turning it into a affliction Warlock and calling it a Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Buffing the Egi to take on the form of the primal for 30s wouldn't break lore but summoning a primal as a permanent pet and letting it temper everyone would break lore. Besides they already destroyed an iconic role by turning it into a affliction Warlock and calling it a Summoner.

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I will say it again. The Summoner Job in this game is NOT a Warlock. The word Warlock has absolutely nothing to do with the summoning of monsters, regardless of what World of Warcraft would have you believe. Nor does it have anything to do with Demons. It has everything to do with blatantly lying to your God. For reference, I was actually a practitioner of the Occult for a good long while. I know what I am talking about here. No serious member of the Occult would call themselves a Warlock unless they were a LeVeyan Satanist or being incredibly stupid. Heck I don't even think Aleister Crowley's own followers of Thelema would be so arrogant as to call themselves that.

And yes, turning an Egi into a Primal for 30 seconds would be lore breaking. The entire reason the Egi appears the way it does is because it is magic that is siphoned off of the Primal, and is as such not capable of taking on the Primals true form for any length of time. You would know that if you actually paid attention to the level 30 Summoner Job Quest.

The Summoner is a caster class first and foremost and not a pet class because the pet has very limited uses. When only one of the three current egi's is useful then sadly it just breaks the true nature of the summoner completely. The fault is classifying the egi's into the special archtypes like caster, dd, and tank. The only way to fix the summoner and make all the egi's useful is to drop the archtypes on them and make them each unique so that they can be used for a variety of special moments.

It's just sad that Garuda Egi is the only one that ever used and the other two have become completely worthless once max level. This is the best way to adjust the summoner with the current lore in the game because it doesn't break it in anyway at all and It just makes all the egi's useful. I hope they decide in the future to do this kind of adjustment in the game to the job.

Inosaska, you aren't wrong in your assessment. But only when it is applied to Dungeons and other group content. Trust me, as a player who prefers to solo whenever possible, Garuda Egi is dead useless in almost all solo content. The only Summon that I use regularly is the Tank Summons.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Buffing the Egi to take on the form of the primal for 30s wouldn't break lore but summoning a primal as a permanent pet and letting it temper everyone would break lore. Besides they already destroyed an iconic role by turning it into a affliction Warlock and calling it a Summoner.

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So I just presented you with 2 well, detailed facts about why your demands cannot be met and you counter with a three line paragraph of more of your opinions (and wording them as if they were facts, to boot)?

IT. IS. NOT. HAPPENING.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

Heck I don't even think Aleister Crowley's own followers of Thelema would be so arrogant as to call themselves that.

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I don't think any of tubeman's espers realize their powers come from Thelema

This isn't Final Fantasy 11 people. Stop expecting the jobs, classes, abilities, and everything to be like Final Fantasy 11.

It is a different lore, different design, different concept.

And summoner is not an afflication warlock.. It is a non-elemental caster. And following the spells final fantasy uses, they just happen to be damage over time spells.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

Inosaska, you aren't wrong in your assessment. But only when it is applied to Dungeons and other group content. Trust me, as a player who prefers to solo whenever possible, Garuda Egi is dead useless in almost all solo content. The only Summon that I use regularly is the Tank Summons.

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Hardly.

Titan-Egi beats out Garuda when you're leveling, soloing FATEs and embarrassing terrible tanks in dungeons. In just about everything else, Garuda's better or the same.

That being said, Arcanist is the solo class in this game. There's very little solo content in the game you can't do half naked with only one hand and no Egi out.

I wish they'd let us keep out Carbuncles as pets and make the primals abilities instead. When you cast Contagion, for instance, Garuda apepars and casts it and then disappears, etc. Summoners would still remain a pet class, but instead of being forced to use one summons all the time, every fight would end up featuring all of them. Make Enkindle an AOE where all three appear and combine for one big move.

I would rather see bouncy little carbuncle all of the time than a floating egi or primal filling up my camera view. An optional cosmetic ability to change which pet you'd prefer would be great.

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Originally Posted by Hiroradius

And summoner is not an afflication warlock.. It is a non-elemental caster. And following the spells final fantasy uses, they just happen to be damage over time spells.

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That's not the same thing? >w>

According to the story we have the crystals and enough aether to summon the full fledged primal. Also the pet system is poorly designed as of now we are a dot job with pets in the background when it should be the other way around where Summoners focus on buffing their pets to increase their damage and casting dots should take a back seat.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

According to the story we have the crystals and enough aether to summon the full fledged primal.

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No, we don't. The beast tribes, after gathering tons and tons of crystals, tempering large amounts of their race and others and several other things were able to. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Just play another class already