To Discourage Power Leveling, Please Change the Party SP Formula

In one of my other threads, I detailed the flaws in the current SP gain system and how they can be fixed: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

A related topic in regard to SP is the current formula used to calculate SP in a party. As most of us should know by now, powerleveling in this game is very easy. I'm not talking about the "healing from out of party powerleveling", but rather the "one rank 50 player kills a bunch of rank 20 mobs while one-three other rank 1 player(s) follow behind for free SP"

To begin, let's recap:

http://kanican.livejournal.com/52445.html
http://kanican.livejournal.com/51730.html

Thanks to the efforts of Kaeko, we know what the exact formula is for gaining SP solo:

[solo SP] = [mob's base SP] x [dlvl modifier]


...and that party SP gain is calculated via an additional "party modifier"

[party SP] = [party modifier] x [mob's base SP] x [dlvl modifier]


How is the "party modifier" calculated?

You can read Kaeko's blog for the nitty gritty details, but basically, it is determined by looking at the members of you party, and seeing how many members are in the -10/+5 rank range of you. The more party members who fall into that range, the larger your "party modifier", and the more SP you get per mob killed.

Unlike other games that calculate EXP based on the level of the highest party member, FF14 calculates it on a purely individual basis. This is why you can kill a mob with a rank 50 character, and while you get 0 SP, the rank 1 character in your party gets 600 SP.

It's pretty ridiculous.

graph with details:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=183441

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaeko

Party Based EXP Hypothesis

In XI, the party EXP system was based on the highest level value in the party. This meant that if you took a party of 2 with a level 50 character and level 10 character and killed a level 25 mob, BOTH players would essentially receive nothing (because the EXP is calculated for both players based on the high of 50). Essentially, the EXP calculation for all players in the party was determined off of the highest in the party.

I hypothesized that the system in XIV was very different that XI's system, and that in XIV, the amount gained is completely calculated on an individual player basis. To elaborate, this means that if we take that same situation of a party of 2 with a level 50 and a level 10 killing a level 25 mob, the 50 would still receive nothing, but the level 10 would receive a good amount of EXP. In this situation, the calculation for each player is based on his own individual level, not the high. The reasoning behind this hypothesis is just the observation that you can easily power level characters in the 10-20s on a level 50 character. This sort of situation was impossible in XI.

I generalized how this formula would work to there being 3 components to determining your party EXP/SP:

(1) The amount of EXP/SP one would have gotten had they killed the mob solo.
(2) The total number of players in the party.
(3) The total number of players in the party within the -10/+5 range of each individual.

[ Final EXP ] = [ Solo EXP ] x [ Party Modifier ]

Where the [ Party Modifier ] is a function of the total number of players in party and the number of players within the -10/+5 rank range.

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What do we do about this?

Well, basically, just get rid of the "party modifier" formula. Take the highest rank member of the party, calculate how much SP he would have gotten solo, then give that same exact number to everyone else in the party (with a few other adjustments, if needed).

This way, if a rank 50 player and a rank 1 player duo, and the rank 50 player kills a rank 30 mob, the rank 50 player will see 0 SP, and so will the rank 1 player.

Make the party SP formula be based on the highest ranking party member, and this form of power leveling is rendered useless.

In a recent thread about removing the dlvl 10 SP cap (which is one of the things that I discuss here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it ), there was this dev post:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Discussed the possibility of removing the SP cap with Matsui. Due to balance issues this could be extremely risky, so we're not currently planning to do this.

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I'm not really sure what the details are because they were not provided, but I assume that one of the "risks" is concerns about power leveling.

With a fixed party SP formula that calculates SP based on the highest ranking party member, this wouldn't be much of a risk anymore.

Please add your comments below, with any suggestions or criticisms.

What do you think the party SP formula should be?


More on how to fix FF14 here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread

I don't see the problem with powerleveling, honestly, if someone wants to do it, why not let them.

But in a semi related note, why didn't they just port over the level sync function from XI... that way level doesn't matter and you can Still play with friends.

Wat. Once you hit 20+ the sp goes down. By the time you hit 24 it's horrible. These levels are a joke solo anyway.

If you could get 500+ sp all the way to 50 powerleveling sure, but this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

In this case, RMT are the moles climbing out of the molehill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Wat. Once you hit 20+ the sp goes down. By the time you hit 24 it's horrible. These levels are a joke solo anyway.

If you could get 500+ sp all the way to 50 powerleveling sure, but this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Wat. Once you hit 20+ the sp goes down. By the time you hit 24 it's horrible. These levels are a joke solo anyway.

If you could get 500+ sp all the way to 50 powerleveling sure, but this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

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The fact that you can get 3 rank 1 characters to rank 30 in just a few hours is a problem. Once you get 3 rank 33 alt characters, you can then accept broken water leves and have even more chances for leve failing and leve repeating.

This flaw in the party SP system is more exploitable than you think.

The SP system needs to be reworked from the ground up. There was another thread, I forget who it was by, but it used an analogy with a ball of duct tape.

The sp system started out flawed, so they rushed out quick fixes to make it more palatable without actually fixing the system as a whole, now they have to add more minor tweaks and fixes and the more they add the bigger the ball becomes until eventually they realize they've got a huge ball of fixes on a flawed system and have to throw it out and start over.

I know that people will complain that your recommendations are too much like FFXI. But I for one hardly see that as a problem. Personally I'd like to see experience chains make a comeback too.

The exploitation of leves is one of the reasons I stopped playing when I did, (the other being that I hate the leve system even without the potential for exploitation.)

And I think that leves, geared and designed to be the casual option, are exactly what they need to be. I think that a guy soloing leves should make less than a well organized party that is chaining mobs.

When FFXI added Fields of Valor it was right about where I thought they should have been in terms of a casual option. You can log in, put your flag up, and do FoV. If you get a party invite you can join the party and get better experience. If you didn't get an invite, you could still chip away at doing FoV. Yeah the progress in FoV was slow, but it was still faster than trying to solo grind.

The last time I had a conversation like this on a forum for ffxiv, the main defense leveled against it was that not everyone wants to grind to gain rank. And kudos to those of you who feel that way.

But don't try to tell me leves aren't a grind too. They are just a stupid easy grind that is easily exploitable.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

But don't try to tell me leves aren't a grind too. They are just a stupid easy grind that is easily exploitable.

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Indeed. On the most basic of levels, it all boils down to "killing things for SP".

The devs have to look deep inside themselves and answer this question - "How do we make the process of killing monsters fun, entertaining, and universally appealing for extended periods of time?"

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

"How do we make the process of killing monsters fun, entertaining, and universally appealing for extended periods of time?"

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Absolutely.

The system in FFXI was a bear sometimes. Sometimes it was a grueling slog through a horrible level range. But other times there was such a feeling of accomplishment.

Before TP burning was discovered I had a static party with my Ninja, it was Nin, Whm, Brd, Blm, Rng, Thf. Before accuracy food existed, before people aimed any higher than chain 5s... and we could consistently get to chain 6 before we had to switch mob pools and lost our chain.

I remember fighting Torama at level 61, and ousting other people because they couldn't keep up with our kill rate. There was a joy and a pride that went along with a good party.

Reaching your first 75 in FFXI may have been brutal at times, but at other times it was amazing. It was an achievement, something to be proud of. And after you achieved it it opened up a whole new world of achievements.

That's what this game needs.

hmmm i dont love the highest sp system, it sucks when someone dings and it changes everyones SP, or if you have one high level dude, screws up everyones sp.

Of course if they had more monsters in more ranges, this wouldnt be so bad, but its still kind of annoying, that said the current sp system works to heavily in favor of power leveling, also im not 100% sure, but i think you get a greater cut of xp with more people being pleveled. IE when you plevel 1 person they take half sp loss, but two people within range? i think they get like 2/3rds - the 3 man loss.

i wouldnt mind if they used something with the same system, but the dlevel applied to equations was based on your average level. so a level 1 and a level 50 would have a dlvel for battle damage purposes of 25. so yeah he would still own a level 10 mob, but its effeciency would drop rapidly the more people you are carrying, and its effeciency would drop by a lot.
by level 20 its already better to be in a reg party, but with the new dlevel for damage, the level 50 would be taking so long, that while its better than no group at all, (Depending on how well you can solo) it kind of sucks.


but the highest level thing is way more simple so they would probably go with that

Well they're making guildleves solo so half of this post will be invalid then. But after that, when they add open world grinding they will need to fix this. I would like more incentive for fighting tougher mobs, like XI system. But with that system you could easily PL someone. Level sync would be nice, the way it is now I don't party with people even 2-3 ranks below me because I will gimp their sp in leves. Open world grinding it doesn't gimp that way, but in leves the lower level you are with higher level people, the low level person gets sp gimped.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

the way it is now I don't party with people even 2-3 ranks below me because I will gimp their sp in leves.

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They can be up to 5 levels lower rank than you with no ill effects to their SP.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

This is Yoshida, the producer/director.

I’m sorry that this is late, but I would like to add a few points.

Power leveling is viewed very differently from player to player, and I still stand by my stance that it should be allowed to a certain extent to bridge the gap between long-time players and newer players. This is because I see it as an act of volunteering, in which the power leveling players are willing to give up their time to help out their friends or family members.

We expected the extent of power leveling to become evident with the removal of the claim system, but we didn’t foresee the extent to which low level players can sit AFK, while in the same party with a much higher level character fighting monsters, without the level differences between the players being applied to the incoming EXP.

The calculations for gained EXP have been fundamentally changed in patch 1.19, which has made this issue more difficult to handle. We considered issuing an emergency maintenance to address this, but the release of patch 1.19a is very quickly approaching, so we have decided to fix the issue in patch 1.19a.

I’m sorry for the confusion that this has caused.

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I would think that this problem should have been anticipated. It was pretty obvious even back in November.

I was getting random classes to level 10 in three minutes in a "PL party" where people took turns massacring the puks and willowisps in Nanawa while everyone shot the breeze. things slowed down at lvl 30, to about 1000 exp a minute.

If there's a lot of enemies, and lvl 50's can stomp them, then its got the potential for exploitation.

Be prepared for contract killers too. "U gib gil, I lebel U"