Why do you save your LB?

I'm starting this thread for the purpose of reading everyone's opinions.

Whenever I play as a melee DPS, I find it best to LB as soon as humanly possible without dying from mechanics. I don't think LB should be saved for when boss is almost dead for the following reasons:

-Using a Lv 3 LB as soon as possible brings down the boss's HP sooner, thus allowing Mercy Stroke and Misery's End to be done sooner.

-It gives the possibility of another LB being able to be used later in the fight (even if it is only Lv. 1, a little damage is better than missed damage).

-From personal experience, I've noticed that using Healer LB 3 in any fight beyond Ifrit HM is basically useless as all the forced damage with weakness will kill you again, and when someone dies due to not knowing mechanics, 8 times out of 10, they don't last more than a minute after being resurrected (assuming they didn't get Landslided, in which case, Healer LB 3 is even less effective).

When do you guys LB?

Whenever is most appropriate, strategically. Anyone that just LBs to LB when it has a better time or place is quick to get ousted.

I recently started a DPS classes and When the LB is ready...I use it (On bosses). If its two bars, I'll wait for the two, unless DPS is awesome then I'll just use the one.

But yes, I also believe that waiting is a waste of time. :o

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Whenever is most appropriate, strategically. Anyone that just LBs to LB when it has a better time or place is quick to get ousted.

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In fights like Garuda HM and Ifrit, letting the BLM LB is best, just like Ultima with tank LB. I'm talking about fights where a melee DPS is free to LB. Wouldn't using a Lv 3 LB as soon as possible be better to have a chance to maybe being able to LB again later? LB 3 is usually finished charging up in the last phase anyways.

There's such a thing call phases.

Garuda EX for instance: the key phase is the tornado phase. It's the wipe-able phase and the hard phase. If you have an LB and use it on the eye phase, you better well be sure she dies. If not you just derped and might have wiped the PT.

Saving that LB to the tornado phase, and LBing suprana/chirada makes all the mistakes in that phase, easier, and then you can push it to the next eye phase which is where you finisher her.

Spamming LBs usually costs runs because people forget the mechanics are there for a reason.

I wait for the bar to fill, then I wait until the best opportunity. Don't want to use the melee LB if there's a group of adds or something that need to be downed (like in Garuda HM) by the caster LB, and I don't want to waste the LB if it's better saved for a healer LB when the party is struggling. I also don't want to be stuck waiting for the LB to go off then get hit by the next landslide in Titan HM (learned that one the hard way). Those are the reasons why I wait. Usually I'm able to use it as soon as the bar is filled.

we usually have our melees bust out the LB as soon as it hits 3 bar, unless we are saving it for something special. but for run of the mill tank and spanks its best to just get that dmg out asap. the longer the fight lasts the more of a strain it is on everyone, tanks, healers and dps included

I dont .... Why?
<<< Bard main ... usually a healer there with me anyway which is probably more effective from them, so my LB is useless. Other than that I pressed it once on a lowbie PUG but I dont think it worked right...

almost every fight has an optimal LB time unless you're overgeared for it, and very few of them is melee DPS LB whenever bar is up (Turn 2 is the only one i can think of like that).

I've actually found few fights have an optimal LB time (since dungeons are most of this games content)

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Originally Posted by alhandra

we usually have our melees bust out the LB as soon as it hits 3 bar, unless we are saving it for something special. but for run of the mill tank and spanks its best to just get that dmg out asap. the longer the fight lasts the more of a strain it is on everyone, tanks, healers and dps included

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Opposite really. What kills groups is over reaching, especially LBs. It's not the longer battle that strains tanks and healers, it's the blanant disregard for teamwork, and breaks formations and throw the pt out of sync.

A meteor in the middle of weights/landslide for instance will wipe your pt from the graphics spam.

Damage LB is also dependent on the combine number of members. If you have 3 dead members, save LB. It will do such crappy damage anyway, it's not worth it. Tank LB is also the only instant LB to use counter to damage, etc.

You screw everyone else if you just blow a LB however innocent. First and formemost know the content.

Using LB as soon as it's available is valid if you are absolutely certain your party will not mess up anywhere afterwards. There are times (albeit rare) where a tank or healer LB3 can recover the fight. For fights that have phases, you may want to LB to skip whichever phase is likely to give the most trouble.

There is no such thing is always LB when available or always LB as a finisher. It's situational and will sometimes differ from fight to fight and from party to party.

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

I've actually found few fights have an optimal LB time (since dungeons are most of this games content)

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Coil is the only dungeon where most groups don't go in overgeared. i haven't done a dungeon besides Coil or CT in a month so idk how that is most of this game's content.

Suppose you are in Titan HM Phase 5 as a DRG. You have 3 members dead like you said, and you decide to hold off on the LB3. Realistically speaking, what are the odds that a healer will be able to ress all 3 dead members (who may have even been landslided). Are you going to hold off on a Limit Break that just got to Level 3 somehow hoping that healers will be able to resurrect people?

I'm asking you this because I was faced with a similar case yesterday (half the group was dead), and I used my Lv 3 LB and it even allowed me to pull off a Lv 1 to finish off the fight. When it is strategically viable to use an LB then yes, you should use it then (Garuda, Ifrit, Ultima), but hesitating and overthinking a chance to pull off an LB more times than not just leaves it sitting there while it could have been used.

I think people likes to use LB at the end of the battles just because it is when It's starting to get difficult... When the bosses reach a certain HP they start changing phases, dealing more damage and such things, in the latest phase it begins to become too much dangerous to keep it like that, so.... It is better to finish it fast with a LB...

While, initiating a fight, there's rarely a problem with holding the battle like that... Let's say, normally it's easier to reduce one boss's VIT bar to half, than from half to zero...Yes, maybe the same vit, But it's not the same try to reduce, for example, the first 30k HP of 60k HP than the latest 30k HP....

That's why most people use LB at the end of the battles, because at start has no much use at all, only accelerates the boss's fury.

(Of course, I'm a noob, and I'm just giving my opinion of what I have seen until now.. MAYBE in end-game there are bosses that are harder at the start of the battle instead of the end... Even if that would make no much sense for a MMORPG.)

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

I think people likes to use LB at the end of the battles just because it is when It's starting to get difficult... When the bosses reach a certain HP they start changing phases, dealing more damage and such things, in the latest phase it begins to become too much dangerous to keep it like that, so.... It is better to finish it fast with a LB...

While, initiating a fight, there's rarely a problem with holding the battle like that... Let's say, normally it's easier to reduce one boss's VIT bar to half, than from half to zero...Yes, maybe the same vit, But it's not the same try to reduce, for example, the first 30k HP of 60k HP than the latest 30k HP....

That's why most people use LB at the end of the battles, because at start has no much use at all, only accelerates the boss's fury.

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When has your LB 3 finished charging up before the last phase (excluding Ifrit Nail Phase)?

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Originally Posted by Odett

Suppose you are in Titan HM Phase 5 as a DRG. You have 3 members dead like you said, and you decide to hold off on the LB3. Realistically speaking, what are the odds that a healer will be able to ress all 3 dead members (who may have even been landslided). Are you going to hold off on a Limit Break that just got to Level 3 somehow hoping that healers will be able to resurrect people?

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If you have 3 dead members in Titan, your LB will do so little damage, you might as well not use it and eat a landslide/weight out of carelessness.

Attack LB is the combine raw stats of all members of the PT. with 3 dps dead, you LB is basically crappier then regular skills.

i safe it because as monk a LB3 will cause me to lose my GL stacks, the DPS loss due to that is higher than the gain so I safe it as finisher or use it before I build up my stacks like right when the boss appears again.

In my opinion saving your LB is only worthwhile in certain situations where you want to get past a specific phase or avoid a specific mechanic. Other than that I don't see any reason not to use it right away, provided you have a good group who knows what they're doing and don't need the healer lb safety net. Really the only time I've seen that safety net work anyways was when dps dying was the problem, if your tanks and healers are dying then you might as well restart in most cases.

It's better to use your lb strategically. Take the last boss in normal haukke manor. For the last 30% or so health she summons 6 adds...I think. A ranged dps's lb quickly eliminates them so the team can focus down the boss without putting a ton of stress on the healer and tank.

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Originally Posted by Kayo

I dont .... Why?
<<< Bard main ... usually a healer there with me anyway which is probably more effective from them, so my LB is useless. Other than that I pressed it once on a lowbie PUG but I dont think it worked right...

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Doesn´t it restore a fixed percentage of each party member? So it should´t matter who uses it, rather it might be better for the BRD to use it since it might be a bit problematic for the healer to stop healing and cast the LB.
Although I guess it hardly matters. When using healing LB seems tempting, it hardly works out well. :p

I just cant stand it when ppl save the LB for literally the last shred of HP, to get the kill and look cool or w/e. I'm guessing this is some sort of rp? theatrics? Coz its clearly wasting damage by the time its used...

I wait for the end to use my LB just in case it needs to be used in another capacity later on. I feel like just opening up with it is quite inconsiderate to the rest of the team, especially since you don't know what may happen. I prefer trying to save a run by using Healer LB than restarting.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

I just cant stand it when ppl save the LB for literally the last shred of HP, to get the kill and look cool or w/e. I'm guessing this is some sort of rp? theatrics? Coz its clearly wasting damage by the time its used...

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Because it's not instant. You actually loose more damage trying to do an attack LB then just standing poking depending on the amount of people alive and the phase.

The only instant LB is tank LB.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

I wait for the end to use my LB just in case it needs to be used in another capacity later on. I feel like just opening up with it is quite inconsiderate to the rest of the team, especially since you don't know what may happen. I prefer trying to save a run by using Healer LB than restarting.

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Everyone loves melees to LB the boss. Unless we're talking about something like the mistral shriek in garuda story mode ( the one after the vortex comes and pillars are knocked ) and it is expected that a tank LB could be needed, I think melee should just go for it. Parties that need support LBs are usually not going to make it....

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Because it's not instant. You actually loose more damage trying to do an attack LB then just standing poking depending on the amount of people alive and the phase.

The only instant LB is tank LB.

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What? I'm not talking about cast times lol. I have used healing and melee LBS.

For certain fights our FC usually saves LB for later..the reason is in case stuff hits the fan and we end up needing the healer 3rd rank one, cause you aren't likely to get back up to a 3rd full bar. We have recovered from an icky Titan run (all dead save for one healer, a tank, a bard, and a black mage post heart phase) with a bard using the healer limit break to get everyone up. Granted the bard also got landslide off... but a sacrificial bard isn't so bad.

Usually stuff doesn't hit the fan and it's just using the limit break later, but it's nice to have the huge rez option in case it's needed.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Everyone loves melees to LB the boss. Unless we're talking about something like the mistral shriek in garuda story mode ( the one after the vortex comes and pillars are knocked ) and it is expected that a tank LB could be needed, I think melee should just go for it. Parties that need support LBs are usually not going to make it....

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It actually depends on the fight. Garuda EX we actually use the caster aoe one when some of the adds are up and on the MT (usually Supra-whatever and Garuda herself). If it's a single boss fight, no adds, we'll usually use melee. I agree with the person quoted though, as stated above. DPS LB is secondary to a healer one if crap hits the fan. Tank I pretty much never get to use.

Ultimately, it depends on the fight.

Dungeons, I'll use it usually when I feel like it; it doesn't matter. It just filled both bars? Sure, I'll pop it (assuming no mechanics that could kill me)

Trials...it varies.

Ifrit HM - First LB (at Nails) is for a caster, unless there's no caster (which then LB to get rid of one Nail). After Nails I'll LB when we're near the end and the healers don't need it.
Garuda HM - Wait til after I know that the healers won't need it (DF only...a pre-made with people I know LB goes off when its best to do so, which depends on DPS and timing)
Titan HM - Can be used in the Heart Phase if DPS is lower. Then near the end of post-heart...again, after its known healers won't need it and you know you won't die during casting

Ultima HM - Tank LB. Just forget the LB exists

Garuda EX - Has to be during a feather phase near the end. Should be used to kill (or leave a sliver of HP to DoT-kill) to avoid another Sisters phase. Tank LB can be used if Spiny is killed early...but I've only seen it succeed on a feather-phase Spiny, not a Sisters Spiny
Titan EX - Caster LB on adds is best IMO. But if you don't do it, LB3 after the Gaols after the second adds (likely will land during stomps)
Ifrit HM - Third Nail Phase. You likely won't have it back after, but if you do then just use at 1

Coil 1-5 - Completely depends on group and your strategies. There are so many ways to use LB and its completely on the group.

Notice a pattern? Holding the LB as a safety for healers. Dead people do no DPS/Healing/Tanking, and a Healer LB3 can save a group should things go wrong.


EDIT: Forgot CT. Lol, just use it whenever. Who cares.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

Tank I pretty much never get to use.

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Tank LB is useful in ex primals (and of course ultima). Since it's the only instant LB you have. Meaning you can time it to within a few seconds.

Garuda EX for instance if the spiny is dead, a lvl2 or even lvl1 Tank LB can prevent a wipe. Same for Titan, if you time it just right, you can do certain things.

Healer is probably the weakest LB of all, but attack LB is pretty worthless if you have dead people. The damage reduction of a dead members make is pretty worthless.

If you have more then 2 people dead, attack LB is nearly the same as not using at all, unless you have a specific purposes (meteor adds, or precast)

There's barely any need to even use the LB unless it's a Primal battle, just some emergency situations.

I feel it's good to save it till a point where you do need it. Rather than having blown it before on something trivial, and then not having it when you do need to use it.

For instance, i had an interesting Stone Vigil run not too long ago.

We were fighting the very first boss, naturally no one got hurt and got out of the way, and near the end of the fight with everyone at full HP the White Mage used the Limit Break, and then complained to us endlessly about why we werent using it earlier. Not only did he blow it and we couldnt use it to finish it off anymore, there was no point for it in that fight in the first place, the 5 seconds we would have saved to kill the boss, while no one was even remotely in danger of dying or running out of MP would have been a waste. Less of a waste than the WHM using it because it was up and no one else used it, but hey.

Long story short, we get tired of argueing with the White Mage, and then when he decides we can go cure ourselves and he wouldnt be doing it anymore, we kicked him. We end up getting through the trash mobs just fine with the three of us. But at the second boss, where we -COULD- have used that LB it wasnt charged up yet and we die with him at 5%.

So really, why do we save the LB? To use it at a point in time where it can save our party. Not to blow it for an extra few seconds saved going through a dungeon faster.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Tank LB is useful in ex primals (and of course ultima). Since it's the only instant LB you have. Meaning you can time it to within a few seconds.

Garuda EX for instance if the spiny is dead, a lvl2 or even lvl1 Tank LB can prevent a wipe. Same for Titan, if you time it just right, you can do certain things.

Healer is probably the weakest LB of all, but attack LB is pretty worthless if you have dead people. The damage reduction of a dead members make is pretty worthless.

If you have more then 2 people dead, attack LB is nearly the same as not using at all, unless you have a specific purposes (meteor adds, or precast)

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I suppose. I've never viewed the tank dps as instant because it certainly locks me in place and all when I have used it until the animation ends, but the animation is shorter than the healer one (I don't have a dps limit, so I can't speak to those two).

Our group has always just found it more useful to use DPS limit breaks, even for the primals. The only exception is Ultima, or when there are LB bars left after a wipe in Twintania, I'll pop the tank LB and run in. I can't say we've used an attack LB with many people dead.. as that's usually when a healer LB is used (assuming we've gotten to the third bar). That's our group's strategy though, and clearly this thread has illustrated how different strategies can be.

Ultimately though, to the OP's question, I think the answer is mostly "in case all hell breaks loose".. as to why people wait to use the dps limit until towards the end of the fight.

Actually, in a well balanced party, that does everything well... can use Lb whenever they like... people that has issues, save LB for w SHTF.

Also don't forget, some moves or phases in boss require use of Lb immediately in order to progress.

He's not talking about trials, but dungeon bosses and he is right.

To my memory, I do not recall one that asks timing or anything other than DPS LB.

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Originally Posted by Toranja

He's not talking about trials, but dungeon bosses and he is right.

To my memory, I do not recall one that asks timing or anything other than DPS LB.

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Pretty sure since he talked about LB 3 specifically.. and mentioned thinking healer LB 3 was useless in anything after Ifrit HM, he was referring to trials and not dungeon bosses. That being said.. the majority of fights can be done just fine without a LB. LB just makes things easier. There are a few exceptions to that rule.

Healer LB= situational ( Pf/Df)
Tank LB= very situational
( probably only ultima hm ? )
Dps LB= most of the time

I also witness a lot of LB hesitation in 4 man parties too.
It always ends up to me having to bark out " use lb "_____" please"
Cuz usually 8/10 times, the fight will end without the lb being used.
Then i go like wtf lol, u should have used it because it could have shorten the fight = less healing i'd have to squeeze out.

Some boss fights have "stages" in which the enemy is more dangerous, and for that reason must be brought down faster (the one at Dzmael comes to my mind, but also Haukke Manor). I've had a healer accusing me to LB too soon while in Brayflox's Longstop (we were at the 2nd boss), and I pointed out that none of the battles in that dungeon had relevant moments in which a DPS's limit break would be more appropriate than others, and that I'd use LB at the beginning so that the rest of the fight would build up some LB pool for the next boss. So, yes, it changes from dungeon to dungeon. Unlike what some people think, DPSing is not a mindless role, and even this kind of decisions must be taken with some reasoning and strategy.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

Some boss fights have "stages" in which the enemy is more dangerous, and for that reason must be brought down faster (the one at Dzmael comes to my mind, but also Haukke Manor). I've had a healer accusing me to LB too soon while in Brayflox's Longstop (we were at the 2nd boss), and I pointed out that none of the battles in that dungeon had relevant moments in which a DPS's limit break would be more appropriate than others, and that I'd use LB at the beginning so that the rest of the fight would build up some LB pool for the next boss. So, yes, it changes from dungeon to dungeon. Unlike what some people think, DPSing is not a mindless role, and even this kind of decisions must be taken with some reasoning and strategy.

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Dungeon wise. It is unwise to push bosses in and out of certain phases too fast. That's a "derp" moment when you push a phase without preparing for it, due to bursting issues.

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Originally Posted by Odett

When do you guys LB?

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I don't always use LB, but when I do, I use healing / tank LB 3 to piss people off.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Dungeon wise. It is unwise to push bosses in and out of certain phases too fast. That's a "derp" moment when you push a phase without preparing for it, due to bursting issues.

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I am talking more about taking out adds (like in the Haukke manor case) or finishing the boss quickly when the "final nasty stage" comes out, such as in Dzmael. I'm a BLM main, and I was always told to do that in both cases.

I don't always BLM LB.. but when I do, I kill the spiney and wipe the party

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

Pretty sure since he talked about LB 3 specifically.. and mentioned thinking healer LB 3 was useless in anything after Ifrit HM, he was referring to trials and not dungeon bosses. That being said.. the majority of fights can be done just fine without a LB. LB just makes things easier. There are a few exceptions to that rule.

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You are right. My bad. I did read the whole page, I must have wandered off while reading...