Request to those who cannot complete current content:

Please do not ask the devs to continuously hand out instantaneous access to newer content when you cannot clear current content.

It does not make sense to feel entitled to newer, *harder* fights when the current instances are incredibly difficult for you to complete. The progression in this game is vertical.

Ask for help from your community with the fights if you must, but the constant demand to "nerf" easily manageable content and the constant demand for access to all content regardless of your skill is going to ruin this game eventually.

Thank you for your time.

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Originally Posted by LimitlessAeon

Ask for help from your community with the fights if you must...

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I'm not someone who is asking for nerfs or instantaneous access (and I think nobody is asking for instantaneous access as it is), but I felt the need to remark upon this line in particular. Have you seen the party finder listings? Nobody wants to help other people. They all demand perfection (while often being less than perfect themselves) and "will kick if you die."

As for the point of your post, I have no problem with them making older content easier once new content is released. All that matters is that I clear what I can in the time frame I am able to. Those people who absolutely must clear all the content at the highest difficulty will still do so. I don't particularly care that other people have an easier time with it than I did. Let them experience the story.

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Originally Posted by LimitlessAeon

Please do not ask the devs to continuously hand out instantaneous access to newer content when you cannot clear current content.

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LOL what?
/10 char

Take the time to read some of the threads on these forums with people upset that they can't access new coil without clearing Turn 5, or even having access to Leviathan without the extreme modes completed.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

I'm not someone who is asking for nerfs or instantaneous access (and I think nobody is asking for instantaneous access as it is), but I felt the need to remark upon this line in particular. Have you seen the party finder listings? Nobody wants to help other people. They all demand perfection (while often being less than perfect themselves) and "will kick if you die."

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Make your own party. I see learning parties or "weekly clear, not all have beaten, have patience" parties every day. It's not hard to get "experience", and on Hyperion at least many of those "hardcore" PFs wipe continually then quit. It's really no different and most people are kidding themselves thinking everyone else is perfect for having been carried through the fight once or twice.

Once YOU are experienced enough, you can fake having the win. I've seen plenty of people who have never won but done the fight dozens of times who had me fooled, and plenty of the opposite (people with T5/EX weapons who die to the most basic stuff).

Which is another thing: you don't have to demand perfection to win. But if a person dies over and over to the same avoidable stuff, it's time to replace them. That's not learning.

Find good people, friend them or get them in a linkshell. Get networking.

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Originally Posted by LimitlessAeon

Take the time to read some of the threads on these forums with people upset that they can't access new coil without clearing Turn 5, or even having access to Leviathan without the extreme modes completed.

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Why do you care? You're going to be off doing the latest greatest thing while other people will finally be able to clear the stuff you've already conquered due to the Echo buff. And so what if they make it to the next tier of content? Unless something changes these same people still won't be completing the cutting edge content before newer stuff comes out.

I knew the inevitable T5 nerf was coming the moment I realized Coil was part of the main storyline -- months and months before the echo buff was acknowledged/confirmed. Even IF the echo buff wasn't being added, the introduction of new gear (presumably through a new myth tomestone equivalent) will necessarily make the fights easier because you'll have higher damage/hp/healing even without the best rotations. It's not really about new players complaining... it's SE's response to the 'upward progression' model they have implemented. As far as the "NOT ENOUGH CONTENT" cries... that's the response of this being a new game. I believe/hope we will not have this sort of problem within a year, when the game is more established and people don't run out of things to do. It is true that, currently, a lot of players come online, do T1-5 within an hour, do their Primal Focus quest within 30 minutes, and then log off for the week.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

I knew the inevitable T5 nerf was coming the moment I realized Coil was part of the main storyline -- months and months before the echo buff was acknowledged/confirmed.

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I knew about it before the game was released. When Yoshi told the world it's exactly how they would be doing it.

Seriously, we've known they were doing this for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

I believe/hope we will not have this sort of problem within a year, when the game is more established and people don't run out of things to do.

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I would say I will disagree with this statement... Before all the trolls and flamers attack me, I really enjoy this game and the current set-up that we have. However, I don't think the time frame of the game will matter because of how they've been implementing content. I feel that as new content is delivered old content will be nerfed and essentially rendered useless.

For example with the new patch being released, and the cap being removed from myth tombs. No player in their right mind fresh 50 or veteran is going to farm philosophy tombstones any more. It doesn't make logical sense to do so when you can easily just farm mythology tombstones and skip an entire progression of gear. That being said I imagine a lot of dungeons "rotting away" so to speak. As time goes on and more content is released older content will continue to be nerfed.

What I imagine is that immediately following the patch and possible for a month after patch release there will be plenty of stuff for players to do. The "hardcore" group (and I do use that term VERY LOOSELY) will work on the new content, while "casual" players will do the nerfed version of older content. After the first month the "hardcore" players will be done and revert to logging in once or twice a week, while the "semi-hardcore" and the "casuals" will continue to work on new content". After two months only the "casuals" will be left with trying to clear content while those who are burnt out on the same runs will patiently wait for the next patch.

After three months (give or take a few weeks) the hard content will be nerfed and more will be released. I see this pattern continuing for the life of the game. I consider myself "semi-hardcore" and will continue to play this game because it's fun for me. That's my point though...its a game and its fun for me.

Why do players care so much about what other people do? Do you need to prove your better than someone else? Is your life pathetic enough that beating someone in a video game is the only thing that gives your life purpose? If you enjoy the game that should be all that matters. If you don't enjoy the game then find a different one to play.

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Originally Posted by Nabian

Why do players care so much about what other people do?

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Who are you referring to with this comment? I personally do *not* care about what other players do in game, but I *do* care when enough underperforming players complain to the devs about content that is perfectly fine, to the point of it being unnecessarily nerfed. IE) Titan HM, which at this point even if you get hit by a puddle or two, you have enough vitality/defense from lvl 90 gear where you can still survive hits from him or if your DPS ability is lacking somewhat you can get past the dps-check heart phase.

To use as another example, the same scenario happens in online FPSes where if some underperforming players make enough "noise" to the devs, they eventually respond in a negative way for the game as a whole such as nerfing certain weapons/equipment.

You all can play however you want, just stop complaining incessantly about content 70%+ of the player base has completed already.

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Originally Posted by LimitlessAeon

I personally do *not* care about what other players do in game, but I *do* care when enough underperforming players complain to the devs about content that is perfectly fine, to the point of it being unnecessarily nerfed.

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It was always in the devs' plans to make older content more accessible to people over time, opposed to what you're interpreting as a few forum posts about people complaining about stuff being too hard leading to a result of the Echo buff being implemented.

Was it their plan to immediately nerf Pharos Sirius a half-patch later because it was too difficult as well?

Pharos was amazing when it first came out. The bosses were difficult and couldn't just be burned down as if you were running a Wanderer's Palace run.

Now the place is a joke because the devs felt "too many" of the players found the place difficult. The same happened with the original Amdapor Keep with the demon wall - nerf. Aurum Vale has also received a nerf. These were all fun dungeons to do with spare time. I suppose I'm just ranting at this point...

I really hope they make Amdapor Township difficult and *keep* it difficult.

These aren't Coil turns we're talking about here. I just don't want this to be a standard pattern.

Honestly, the only fight I would like to see that gets fixed is the HM Titan and EM Titan. With the way how ping is and positioning on SE's side, people get screwed royally on this getting hit by stuff that shows on their screen that they have cleared the area. Furthermore, it's quite unforgiving with those fights with people getting knocked off with no chance of recovery at all. Way too much dancing in that fight that actually affects a Black Mage's dps cause they have to keep moving most of the time. EM Titan is a real challenge that nobody wants to have a "new" person come in and start the whole learning process again because that person will keep dying a few times before getting better when the group is already trying to get the boss down after the heart phase. SE knows about this "lag" issue, and yet people are having to get a 3rd party pingzapper or whatever just to deal with the lag issue caused by SE's end. Why do people need to pay for a 3rd party lag buster program when SE can remedy this issue by allowing a little more response time to avoid getting blasted by stuff that happens on SE's server but not on the player's side, but people still die anyways. This is the biggest gripe players have.

They have very little incentive to fix what many at still paying for despite being unhappy about. They don't have to care if most everybody is just going to cry on this forum and not much else. Vote with your wallet. Everything else is just noise at days end.

A bit off-topic, but there are a few things I'd like to address:

1. If all hardcore players do at high levels is log on, run coil, maybe do a primal or two, log off, then repeat ad nauseum next week, they really shouldn't complain. There IS more to the game, and if they wish to limit themselves to only what's considered high level/end game content, that's their fault if they get bored.
2. There are ALWAYS going to be players who can take out the hardest challenge and want more, just as there are those who won't be able to. Appeasing both parties is quite the balancing act for even the best of devs.
3. Decisions to make content easier aren't always the result of player complaints. Devs play too sometimes, and may realize they set the bar too high themselves.

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Originally Posted by LimitlessAeon

Please do not ask the devs to continuously hand out instantaneous access to newer content when you cannot clear current content.

It does not make sense to feel entitled to newer, *harder* fights when the current instances are incredibly difficult for you to complete. The progression in this game is vertical.

Ask for help from your community with the fights if you must, but the constant demand to "nerf" easily manageable content and the constant demand for access to all content regardless of your skill is going to ruin this game eventually.

Thank you for your time.

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I agree with you except for the fact that you're assuming a person can't clear content because of their skills. There are 7 other people who can screw things up for you. This is made worse by the new Party Finder metagame where people say they know a fight, are a 3 strikes party, weekly kill group, etc. and they're just straight out lying to entice experienced players in. These designations in Party Finder mean nothing anymore. You literally have to know the skills of 6-7 other people and exclude strangers of unknown skill level entirely. That being said, better gear in 2.2 is enough to ease difficulty a little without any other adjustments. The many instant kill mechanics will still get you though, regardless of gear. I definitely wish there were less of those.

[QUOTE=LimitlessAeon;1931227]Was it their plan to immediately nerf Pharos Sirius a half-patch later because it was too difficult as well?

Pharos was amazing when it first came out. The bosses were difficult and couldn't just be burned down as if you were running a Wanderer's Palace run.

Now the place is a joke because the devs felt "too many" of the players found the place difficult. The same happened with the original Amdapor Keep with the demon wall - nerf. Aurum Vale has also received a nerf. These were all fun dungeons to do with spare time. I suppose I'm just ranting at this point...QUOTE]When was Pharos nerfed? According to patch/hotfix logs it hasn't been yet. Its scheduled to be nerfed in 2.2 for the same reason AK was. the loot is not equal the the Dungeons difficultly. Though personally I would prefer better loot to a nerf.

The only thing that needs to be nerfed/rebalanced is Titan HM/EX. He needs a extra .5-1 second added to all his moves, to offset lag. Though the only one that majorly needs it is weight of the land, though landslides are sometimes a problem. Though I say add it to all his moves so they keep the same pattern.

Pharos was messed up because the difficulty was not inline with the rewards. that's why it needs adjustment. they could've kept it the same and just added better stuff to it.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Why do you care? You're going to be off doing the latest greatest thing while other people will finally be able to clear the stuff you've already conquered due to the Echo buff. And so what if they make it to the next tier of content? Unless something changes these same people still won't be completing the cutting edge content before newer stuff comes out.

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Some people just loves minding other people's problems. It really bothers them for some reason, I don't know what it is but I've seen these type of toxic players in my server. They see something that someone is doing that is totally NONE of their business, they get into the person's back and starts harassing/or dictate the player for hours

I wish people would mind their own business instead of getting upset over trivial things that is really NONE of their business, it's not like the player is targeting them. But for some reason they get so affected and take it personally which is kinda of funny

Some content is not accessable to other players because of the little games that are played by some or the attitudes shown. My first attempt to go into Sirrius was players joining then immediately quitting. Titan HM sure i got lagged nailed but after the tank dies it's my fault everyone wiped? I find some so called pro players like to put the blame on others for their mistakes. The attitude I have experienced in end game in this FF tends to stink.

Personally I'd rather do raids like Dynamis. There is no leeway to recover as others have pointed out in the past. Now it's let's rush let's one shot this. For some of you who claim to want an hard challenge, you sure seem to look for the easy way out. Oh so sorry ranged DPS only is one example. Exclusion from content by other players. No wonder stuff gets nerfed.