YoshiP recently commented about the fact that no one bothers to go to Limsa or Gridania anymore.
So far so good, but let's take a more in-depth look at the root causes of the Limsa/Grid depopulation phenomenon. We'll take a look at the 3 main reasons (SP gain, economic gain, social interaction) that everyone opts to hang out in Uldah and how these 3 factors actually amplify each others' effects to form a self-reinforcing cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida
(Now obviously, the main reason here is that the MASSIVE amount of players that have left this game since launch caused all the remaining players to want to band together. If we still had the same large population numbers that we had in September, then the player base would have to spread out naturally. But since nearly everyone left, it just exacerbates the effect of the following 3 main points. Getting the original user base to return to Erozea would be part of the master plan, and hopefully the solutions to the following 3 main problems of Limsa/Grid depopulation will help us move forwards towards that master plan.)
3 main reasons why everyone stays in Uldah (in order of importance):
SP GAIN
- Most of the leves with the best SP rewards are in Thanalan
- Coblyn genocide used to be the best way to gain SP in the game
- Shouting in Uldah is the best way to make an SP party
- Thanalan behests are the most crowded, and therefore have the best SP
- It's easier to buy grinding mats in Uldah to rank up your own crafting class
ECONOMIC GAIN
- There are more people in Uldah, so there are more potential customers to trade with
- The market wards are always full of stuff, so it's easier to conduct trading in Uldah
- There are more people who need repairs in Uldah.
- There are more people to look at your bazaar, and your retainers' bazaars
SOCIAL INTERACTION
- Anyone who wants social interaction has to come to Uldah since that is the place with the most people
- It's easier to find parties and recruit for linkshells by shouting in Uldah.
- All my friends end up hanging out in Uldah, so I need to hang out there as well.
(TRANSPORTATION COSTS)
- There is actually a 4th reason that doesn't really fit into the other categories, but is important nonetheless
- There are only 2 choices players have for transportaion: walking and teleporting
- Walking takes too long, and teleporting wastes anima, therefore the best option is usually just to stay put in Uldah due to lack of alternatives.
SP Gain - the main reason people want to go to Uldah.
Most people play this game to rank up their classes. They are going to do that in the fastest and most efficient way possible. This is an RPG, so SP gain is directly tied to character progression, a goal that we all have. Players, in general, are going to do whatever they can do get the most SP in order to advance their character's progression.
Since most players' main priority is getting SP, they are going to head to Uldah. Uldah's leves are the best for gaining SP, and it's also the best place to find a party since everyone is there anyway (self-reinforcing)
Since there's always people at the Thanalan Aetheryte camps, there's always people to fill up the behests, therefore making Thanalan behests the best place to gain behest SP.
Economic Gain - the secondary reason that follows the main reason
There isn't anything particularly special about Uldah itself in terms of economic benefit. The only reason it is more economically beneficial NOW, is because everyone hangs out at Uldah due to the first reason (it's the best place to get SP). Therefore, since everyone else hangs out in Uldah to get SP, there are more potential customers to sell stuff to. Therefore, all the buyers/sellers, and other economically-minded people have no choice but to come to Uldah too.
Back in September when there were many people online, we had bazaars at both the Limsa and Gridania adventurer guilds. They were profitable because of all the foot traffic. Now that the only foot traffic is in Uldah, the player bazaars (what's left of them) have to choice but to relocate to Uldah.
Wherever the bulk of the battle classes go, the merchants must follow in order to make money. Wherever the merchants go, the battle classes must follow in order to get repairs and buy new stuff. Again, these are more self-reinforcing cycles.
Social Interaction - the inevitable result of the first two reasons
So now, all your battlers and all your merchants have fled to Uldah. To someone who doesn't really care about that stuff, and whose main desire in an MMO is to chat and interact with other players socially, there is no choice but to follow along to Uldah as well.
In Gridania, no one can hear you /scream
Continued in the next post due to space constraints.
More on how to fix FF14 here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread
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06-29-2011, 11:20 PMRentahamsterDevTalk: Detailed Analysis of Depopulation in Limsa/Grid and How to Fix It
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06-29-2011, 11:21 PMRentahamster
[SIZE=5]How to fix this mess (in order of importance):[/SIZE]
Rebalance leves so that the best ones are not all in Thanalan
They are already moving towards that goal by instituting a set SP reward upon leve completion.
If all leves give out the same rewards for the same amount of effort, there will be no reason to stay exclusively in any one area like there is now.
Ensure that there are convenient ways to get SP in all regions of Eorzea
As long as there is suitable content that lets players get SP in each region, players will go to that region.
As long as any one region is not overwhelmingly better than the other, players will be able to freely spread out according to personal taste.
An emphasis on open-world grinding will also help in this regard. If there are more viable places in the world to grind mobs, players will go there. The developers would do well to encourage this and to get players to explore their world more by rewarding them for doing so.
See here for more details how:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Dynamic-Erozea
Combine the market wards from all 3 cities into the same instance
Recently, FF11 did this with their auction houses because really, there is no point in having them all be separate. Currently, you are punished whenever you go to Limsa or Gridania because the market wards over there are barren due to the reasons I stated above.
If all the cities' market wards were combined, it would make all 3 cities equal in convenience with respect to market ward economic advantage. For pure merchants, that would meant that there is almost no reason to have to stay in Uldah all the time. All 3 cities would have equal convenience and money-making potential.
Carpenters, Armorers, Leatherworkers, Culinarians, etc who need to use guild support can do so in their respective cities without having to feel like they are missing out on sales due to not having access to the Uldah market wards.
This alone would go very very far to achieve what YoshiP stated his main objectives were - not to decrease Uldah's convenience, but to increase the convenience of the other 2 cities.
Encourage players to do leves in different locations
There is a current mechanic that does that now - leve exchanging. Exchanging leves from different leves gives you a higher multiplier bonus. However, this only lets you get more gil and guildmarks, which we all know are pretty much useless.
- Make the rewards for leve exchanging more varied and desirable
- Make it easier and more intuitive for players to exchange leves
- Increase the relative value of gil (hard to do) See this thread for ideas: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/11434-DevTalk-GIL-SINKS!-Ideas-to-Stabilize-the-Economy-and-Curb-Inflation
- Increase the value of guildmarks by giving us more abilities to buy, as well as items and equipment that are only obtainable by purchasing them from the guilds with guildmarks.
Implement Chocobos and Airships already!
Why oh why were these features not already in the game at retail launch???
The players need more methods of transportation, and the current 2 choices (walking and teleporting) are woefully inadequate.
Players need a quick way to travel between the cities that does not eat up anima.
In-depth outline for chocobo implementation can be found here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Want-Your-Fix
Fix behests so that SP is not so strongly dependent on the number of participants
Mainly, have each behest spawn the max amount of mobs whether you have only 1 participant, or 8.
See this thread for additional ideas: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ehest-Feedback
Implement global shout channels so that players can interact with each other more easily even if they are in remote locations.
I know this is a controversial topic, but I feel that this would do more good than harm. Currently, social interaction is too dependent on location, because no one is going to hear you if you don't shout in Uldah.
De-link that association, and players will be free to move elsewhere without repercussions. I laid out a plan for this in a previous thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-Improvements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
Improve the party search feature
No one uses it now because it is very unintuitive. Just copy the system from FF11 where you can set up a "looking for party" flag along with comments, so that party leaders can find YOU, instead of the other way around.
The current implementation is TERRIBLY flawed now because there are more people looking for parties than people who want to make parties. The current implementation assumes the opposite and is designed to favor the opposite, for some odd reason.
Give us /sea please
Look at how much easier it is in FF11 to put together a party: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.htm...614&howmany=50
Well, that's pretty much the bulk of it right there. Of course there are many other details and nuances regarding the Limsa/Gridania depopulation phenemenon, but if the devs take the suggestions I laid out into consideration, I'm confident that it would solve a lot of the current problems.
Please add your ideas and contribute to the discussion below. If you think any of my points are misguided or wrong, feel free to elaborate.
More ways to fix FF14: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread -
06-29-2011, 11:26 PMFated
It's funny, but by implementing the changes of 1.18 they are in fact making Ul'dah less convenient. Good job, SE.
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06-29-2011, 11:27 PMRentahamsterWhat changes in particular are you talking about? The changes to leves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fated
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06-29-2011, 11:36 PMyukikaze_yanagi
Pretty much that. Since They putting guild mark and varius reward bound to city states (not speaking of grand companies, whatever they are) people naturally will end to gather in that city while crafting/ leves for marks. That don't resolve the market ward issue, but it's a start.
also, the existing sp grind camp aren't in thanalan -
06-29-2011, 11:37 PMMantiTeranYea im lost here toQuote:
Originally Posted by Fated
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06-29-2011, 11:42 PMRentahamsterYes, I know, but it used to be due to Coblyns.Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
Also, the best grinding places (mun tuy, mistbeard, nine ivies, treespeak, riversmeet, camp glory, boulder downs, crooked fork, zelma's run, etc) are rendered moot because leve-linking parties are so overwhelmingly better for SP. That was my point. -
06-29-2011, 11:54 PMSigmakan
Many things you listed are a self-propagating. They result from having so many people in Ul'Dah. Better question, why did so many people come to Ul'Dah?
-Best leves
-Most guild halls
-Most convenient layout
-CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WORLD
They are already addressing the first point, and in discussions about the 3rd point. But im wondering how they will address the last point. They cant just move Ul'Dah. Also, we can assume that new classes will have their guilds in LL or Grid to try and balance that out. -
06-29-2011, 11:58 PMRentahamsterThis is only a major issue because of the lack of transportation options. In a world where we have no choice but to walk or waste anima, a centrally located hub is the most convenient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigmakan
However, once Chocobos and city to city airship travel are implemented, the centrality of Uldah will be of less importance.
Hmm, I thought I had mentioned that part but I guess not. I'll edit it in later. -
06-30-2011, 12:01 AMSigmakanIf there is a minimum level requirement for airships/chocos then I still think this issue will exist. I'm interested to see how they address it. Quite a mind-boggling design decision. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
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06-30-2011, 12:23 AMPhysic
they seem to be addressing most of the major concerns
By possibly destroying leve failing, they kind of kill the easy thanalan SP market, now even if they have good leves in thanlan, by making a reward occur on completion, and lowering the actual in leve reward, the balancing of what is a good leve will be somewhat different. not only that, but even whether you will actually have the good leves, will matter, while thanlan may have some of the best leves, i can tell you there are leves which compete in the other zones, and definiately there are leves which are only second to the best ones of thanalan.
So people, if they dont roll the best thanalan leves will have a reason to check other towns for best sp
so now that the thanaln best sp situation may be addressed we come to the marketing, the combination of guild leves only giving guildmarks in the proper towns, and people leveling in proper towns, will increase the need for being in other towns, and thus the marketability of selling in other towns. crafters will have even more reasons to work out of other towns, and a market to get while doing it. It is a little more likely you will see more specific things in certain areas, like woodworking crap in grid, etc.
Party search is going to be improved, if in fact leve linking is no longer the ultimate SP. because people will actually party, and seek parties, people may also start seeking leves, based on what they rolled, instead of doing the same ones with the same people. The also said they would add a search for party feature, which will even further improve the party search system, which if people are using isnt even that bad.
transportation issues: this is a real factor, and i think its also why he wants to get a very basic easy and fast airship system going city to city, a no cutscene form of travel from city to city that uses money instead of anima will open up travel.
This i think will eliminate the need to unify the MW, and though it will increase shopping times for bargain hunters, I think it will make it a good balance of bargain hunting and accessibility. For easy things you probably want to stay in towns, but for expensive or important gears you may check all three.
Also unifying wards can only work if they add a delivery type system, or they make MW not transport you to other towns. Not going to argue the benefits or problems with doing that, but suffice to say i dont think they are going to be able to do that type of big change anytime soon if they did decide to do it. So lets work with what is. -
06-30-2011, 12:26 AMSorelVery well thought out. Though I may not agree with all your points and/or reasoning, this is still a very impressive post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
Actually, the only thing I would flat out not want the Development Team to implement from your list is #7, the Global Shout channels.
#3 is going to be very tricky. Actually combining the Market Ward zones into one for all three cities poses a metaphysical problem that contradicts the current concept of the Market Wards. Not that Naoki Yoshida is scared of blowing away current concepts in the game ... but breaking the basic laws of space-time will require some forethought on everyone's part so that it makes sense.
I'm thinking TARDIS, myself. :p -
06-30-2011, 12:44 AMFiosha_Maureiba
Ul'dah, to me, is the most ergonomically designed and positioned city.
In between Limsa and Gridania.
When you teleport in, you're next to the Wards, the Adventurer's Guild, a vendor, a retainer, the repair NPC, and the exit of the city.
Unlike Gridania leves, you usually have an open space to get from the Camp to the leve in a straight line, rather than remember the correct paths in the maze. Where Limsa leves usually had extended running distances.
My concern, initially, is that this patch will shake things up for a while, and eventually once we find less value in guild marks, gravitate toward Ul'dah again due to convenience. Conjurers, archers, and lancers will be destroying their leves. Limsa Lominsians will be in need of other adventurers not swinging around an axe. And Ul'dahns will be swinging around their subligars in sexy sin at the Miner's Guild waiting to get [removed by Moderator: highly inappropriate]
But I guess I'm lookin' forward to the shuffle for a bit. -
06-30-2011, 12:49 AMPhysicthe leves in ul dah arent really that good overall, its just that they had some really good ones, in a place people already hang out in. But if leve failing doesnt become worth it, then you wont always roll the cream of the crop leves, trust me, there are some pretty good leves in grid and limsa, definately on par with anything but dunesfolk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba
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06-30-2011, 01:06 AMKiaraHi Sigmakan,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigmakan
Good point. :) This is one thing that I noticed early on in the game. As Renta said, since transportation is so limited, it was just easier to be in the "Middle" (Ul'dah) and that way, you only have to go "half as far" if you want to go to either LL or Gridania (if you chose to run to save anima), or it was easier to shout for a tele originally.
I think a long term fix that will help this a bit will be:
1. Coerthas Focus: Firstly, it's been confirmed that the R50 The Dzemael Darkhold's entrance is via Coerthas and Dragonhead. So Gridania is closer to Coerthas than Ul'dah or LL, so that's one thing that could help a bit.
Secondly, hopefully with the Guildleve Solo-Focus Changes in 1.18 and beyond, there will be Mob Redistribution and more places in Coerthas (or The Black Shroud / La Noscea) to Party SP Grind.
Thirdly (long term), whenever Ishgard opens up, that'll probably move all 3 cities' people towards that location (but then we get into a similar issue like it is now) ;)
2. Mor Dhona: If Mor Dhona becomes a key area to spend time in (new Dungeons, new NMs, new SP Grind Areas, Grand Company Tasks out that way), that would also move some traffic out of Ul'dah (i.e., it's OK to stay in Gridania and walk East to Mor Dhona if you spend more time that way).
And as Renta said, Chocobos & Airships. If they make it pretty cheap in cost and fast in convenience, it won't be bad at all to stay in 1 City vs. another. -
06-30-2011, 01:08 AMRoaran
If you look out long term, Ishguard will likely become the next central hub just as Jeuno was for FFXI. (Aht Urgan eventually became the next, but it's connection to Jeuno and the other 3 cities through the warp taru was the primary reason for this). With all the content that surrounds Ishguard I'd imagine there are things the devs are planning to address each of these issues that otherwise cannot be talked about.
But, I am in favor of a linking of the market wards. Mainly to help facilitate newer players and give the option for other players to play effectively from each of the cities. -
06-30-2011, 01:20 AMKiara
Hi Renta,
Great thread! :) Clear, well-thought out points and solutions brought up. Well done! :)
I agree with most of your points, but the 2 I'd disagree with would be:
(1) Unifying of the Markets - Not really disagreeing on the basic level, but on the level that SE needs to provide a solution for better Searching and Display Options; and realistically, a Square version of the SEC monitoring Fair Trade / Better Business Practices. Specifically:
Right now, we only see the Top 20 (Cheapest) Items on Search Results. By unifying the markets (and when this game gets more players on, and when SE grants us the ability to buy/get a 3rd Retainer (and 4th, etc.)), I can't imagine how the busier items are going to sell for many people. Even now (during the slowest time), for categories like Iron Nuggets or Iron Ore, all I see are:
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
etc.
It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss how to solve that, but it's part of the problem of unifying markets. We'd get a lot of potential RMT Companies that want to control a market: They'd just use 2 or 3 of their extra Retainers, Dump their Goods at super low prices to drive out the competition, and then jack up the prices after everyone's gone.
(2) Global Shout: If it's a Channel you have to actively Subscribe to (and it's OFF (Unsubscribed) by default), I think it'd be OK. Otherwise, I'd be against having one.
Otherwise, this is a great list that I hope we see SE tackle. Some items are already being addressed like the SP Distribution, and focus of driving people to other Cities (Guild Marks, Rewards).
We'll see how it goes after 1.18 and 1.19. I'm glad we're seeing some changes soon. :) -
06-30-2011, 02:07 AMDelmontyb
Excellent analysis, and some well thought out ideas. :)
I would love for their to be features, as well as Content that was exclusive to those cities as well. I feel you are spot on with your thoughts here, and would add that more city uniqueness is needed as well. :) -
06-30-2011, 04:58 AMRentahamsterIt will still exist, but it won't be nearly so bad, as long as players aren't stuck with walking as almost the only choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigmakan
Or, if they just add in a free ferry of somekind from Gridania to Limsa only, then that would solve most of the problems right there. -
06-30-2011, 06:13 AMTeknoman
BTW about guild leves just in case people missed it:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...9a51563e165108 -
06-30-2011, 06:49 AMChezen
Well, initially I was for linking the wards... but if the population was distributed better, I don't think that part would be a problem. Linking them, however, would create more room issues. Each city should have it's own flavor and stable economy, at least I believe that's the idea.
Other than that I agree. No city should be better than the other if you want the population distributed. The companies will help too I think. -
06-30-2011, 07:08 AMRentahamsterIt would still be a problem at the current server population rates. By my estimation, the population of each server would have to be at least 3 or more times larger than what it is currently (basically, at least 3 "uldah's worth" of players in each city).Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezen
However, that's not gonna happen for a while until the game gets better, so you may as well just cut your losses and merge the wards to make life better for your existing player base. It will be a dramatic improvement now, which will only help to give positive feedback to support future player growth.
This part is true, which is why they would also either need to:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezen
1. scrap the NPCs and make market wards a completely text-driven interface (item search menu without the NPCs, basically)
2. improve the game engine and optimize the servers enough so that overcrowding isn't an issue anymore (unlikely in the short term)
I agree that this would be nice, but at the current population numbers, it is an unfeasible fantasy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezen
This works in other MMOs like EVE Online, but that is only because there are 100,000 people on a single server. -
06-30-2011, 07:43 AMQuoc
Give newcomers and veterans a reason to play or return to the game and re-population will fix itself. Ways to do that is to get rid of fatigue and timers completely. And if that's not in the plan book, get rid of the subscription fee so that we're not paying to "wait" to play.
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06-30-2011, 03:45 PMDavorok
I approve this OP.
I am glad they are moving the GuildMark Leves to the corresponding cities. I have wanted this since the first time I logged in. I just hope they improve and expand the lists of what can be "bought" with GuildMarks.
*Off-Topic: Can someone explain to me why and when as an Archer I would want to "...trade my DEX for PIE..."?
: " or "...trade my STR for MND...?
etc. -
06-30-2011, 03:48 PMJoekingIt forces you into the other classes, to get the correct stats conversions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davorok
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06-30-2011, 04:03 PMLumidus
Yea I think having the wards be 1 instance for all cities will help spread out people the most. Only issue is wards being full lol. ATM When I go to another city and need something off my retainer or buy soemthing, its better to grab guild support and head back to Ul'dah.
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06-30-2011, 04:32 PMDavorokQuote:
Originally Posted by Joeking
Ok, just as I thought...Useless to me as an Archer since I don't want to be a Conjurer and also useless after Physical Lvl is gone because we (presumably) will allocate stats for each individual Class from now on (after patch(es)).
p.s. Sorry for sidetrack but kinda applies to jobs/classes in the near future (in my addled mind anyway). -
06-30-2011, 04:36 PMJacob
Thanks for the post Rentahamster,
i just wish porting to main cities would be free. since movin around to 3 cities to gather guildmarks sounds like a bad idea wasting 3 anima on each port -
06-30-2011, 05:02 PMSuzakuCMXIf you're an Archer, you probably put most of your stats into Dex and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Davorok
So if you wanted to play another class and it didn't use Dex, you can use that trait to trade 10 Dex for 10 of a different stat.
Or you can use it to give yourself even more of a stat than you would normally be able to get.
Also, if you put 10 into Dex when it's only at 16, then equip the trait, you are saving more stat points than just putting those 10 points into Piety when it's at 70 or 100. -
07-01-2011, 12:49 AMMunba
Agree with the points in the OP.
But i'd add that every city needs some 'real' contents (to play) in each, different from the other ones. Some ideas:
- unique quests with cutscenes, about the ancient lore of that city;
- specific minigames like: dices (uldah), fishing tournaments (limsa), lottery (gridania), etc.;
- an istanced multi-lv dungeon in every city (like the basements in FF11 sandoria). A segment of it could be also used for a battle tutorial. Other segments, for different levels;
- random events (some on specific and recurring dates) for every city like: fairs, musical meetings (in gridania music hall), fireworks, appearing of special merchants or npcs (that gives hidden quests and rewards);
- presence of specific routes, from the city, to reach unique places. Some islands near Limsa, renting little boats from limsa port, for example;
- and when housing will be add, unique house design for every city (with a balcony view of the area). -
07-01-2011, 02:36 AMRentahamsterIf current player behavior is anything to go by, this will not have a significant impact. People who accept Grid and Limsa local leves now do one of the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
1. Do the locals as fast as possible, then go back to Uldah
2. Pick up the locals, go back to Uldah, do the synths, drop off locals later.
Even after the patch, there still won't be any compelling reason to stick around. There will be more of a reason than now, yes, but will it be enough? I'm not so sure.
There's still not enough total people per server to make all 3 wards in all 3 cities viable yet. Even with airship transport, it would still be in everyone's best interest to just consolidate their retainers in one city. The game might as well be designed around that concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
We need a mailbox, but I don't think that's the only reason why a unified ward would work. I'm not sure what your reasoning is here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
I thought this part was obvious. You enter ward from Grid, you exit to Grid. You enter ward from Uldah, you exit to Uldah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Physic
In effect, this actually acts sort of like a makeshift mailbox, since you can always meet someone to trade, even if they're in a different city. Just meet in the wards. -
07-01-2011, 02:56 AMSorelYes, but does that actually make physical sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
If a person can walk into Room X from Room Y that is connected to Room Z (because people from Room Z can walk in and interact with things in Room Y), what physical reason is there to stop people from going into Room X from Room Z through Room Y?
If I can get to the Unified Market Ward zone from the Limsa Lominsa zone and from Gridania zone to interact with retainers and players from both cities, what stops me from just walking to the Gridania zone through the Market Ward zone?
Normal physics will not allow for a unified Market Ward zone. So we'll have to use metaphysics instead.
Any ideas anyone?? -
07-01-2011, 03:12 AMRentahamsterQuote:
Originally Posted by Sorel
Huh? Are you arguing this from the perspective of retaining immersion or something?
This is a computer program. All the regions and zones aren't laid out in a physical location. They aren't all laid out on after the other in some kind of actual physical order. They are just coordinates in a virtual space. The market wards in Uldah right now aren't actually attached to Uldah, they are just another instance in the server.
If you enter the unified wards from Uldah, the game knows that you came from Uldah, so when you choose to exit the wards, the game automatically puts you back in Uldah. -
07-01-2011, 03:32 AMSwev
how i see it is if they make it so marks are only attainable at cities that correspond to the given cities it will spread out the classes for parties. (possibley making unbalanced classes in a party) It will be like seeing all conj, archers etc in one city while guardians, etc in another city doing their levequests. Same with trade classes having to have to travel to other cities to get what they need to complete their items they are making. alot of travel here to get your mats unless we have a central hub somewhere. I see people using up way more anima then they use to with this change. (unless they plan on giving us airships sometime soon)
Forgot to say. They are better off making anima 0 cost for now to each city until airships come out. -
07-01-2011, 04:30 AMSorelYes. I'm not arguing against a Unifed Market Ward, though. I kind of like the idea. I'm just pointing out a flaw that needs to be addressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
Gridania and Limsa Lominsa are just instances on the server, along with Market Wards. However the case, in the virtual world of Eorzea we cannot simply go from Gridania to Limsa Lominsa without a physical or metaphysical conveyance (e.g. walking, running, teleportation, etc).
All I'm saying is that we need to put some thought into how players from different (virtual) geographic cities can somehow end up in the same (virtual) geographic marketplace simply by walking down a street or making a left around the next corner.
Time And Relative Dimension In Space, transporters, portkeys, folding space with Spice, high-speed elevators to the center of the planet ... whatever. The players just need a way to get to this Unified Market Ward that can be explained. It doesn't have to be realistic, it just has to be explainable. The more it fits into the lore of the game though, the better. -
07-01-2011, 04:43 AMRentahamster
As it is now, you already teleport into the wards. It would be the same as it is now as if they were unified.
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07-01-2011, 06:22 AMSorelTeleportation, eh? I can work with that. Look for a new thread shortly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
BTW, the game doesn't actually state that it's teleporting your character anywhere when you go into a Ward. It uses the imprecise term "move". The engine uses the teleport mechanic and graphics, but the game implies that you have not really teleported anywhere. That's why I wanted you opinion on the best way to convey players to this new Unified Market Ward.
P.S. - Unified Market Ward is a mouthful. Can we call the new zone Midian? -
07-01-2011, 02:40 PMSymon17Definitely this. In addition to the other reasons mentioned here, this is the main reason I spend most of my time in Ul'dah. The design of the other two cities makes absolutely no sense. They both have long and completely empty stretches of land between the actual city, and the actual exit. I mean come on, that long a** bridge in Limsa, really? WHY??? Not to mention navigating them is more of a hassle than navigating the rest of the game. Ul'dah for the most part makes sense design wise. There really isn't even a question as to why no one goes to the other two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba
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07-01-2011, 03:01 PMgeniusprime
I am not going to dwell on the details of SP, Leves etc. I am only going to talk about the design of the other two cities. Firstly Ul'dah overall design is decent. Its not particularly great but it works. It would be nice if they can just open the gates instead of forcing gamers to make an unnecessary detour; you know save gamers a few seconds here and there.
Then you have Gridania which feels more like a maze. In fact the entire world of Black Shroud is a blatant unattractive maze. No-one who has played the game should be wondering why the population is low. Its a navigational nightmare. I don't know why the original developers thought that making everything in the city to be similar to that of an ants nests would be a great idea. Its simply dreadful and the overall design feels and plays like an enormous timesink.
Limsa is not any better. The varying floors and everything is connected by a relatively long bridges has a very similar feel to that of Gridania. The city supposed to be accessible. Not play out like a separate tiresome adventure. And that is really the issue with the other cities. Its simply painful to navigate. Not only that, it takes a while to leave both cities because someone thought it would also be a equally great idea to have a unnecessarily long bridge from these cities to the actual world.
OK I am done ranting about the horrible designs of these two cities. -
07-01-2011, 04:13 PMGriss
the Ulda situation has definitely snow balled. I don't think i would be overstating that the snowball has reached such epic proportions that it now has its own gravitational pull. The leve reformations will do a bit to help spread people out, but for the time being i think at best it will encourage people to pay more frequent visits to limsa or grid. Its a big catch 22 the people will go where the other people are.