Thoughts on Coil and CT, should they have been switched?

Anyone else think CT and coils FC fundamentals, difficulty, and gear should have been switched?

IE:
CT=> Long instance with many bosses, strategizing, planning, 24pc (Large FC friendly), high lvl of difficulty, etc... similar to a dynamis from ffxi. This would have increased socializing, friending, basically player involvement in an FC. It could have had a 48 hour lockout instead of these dumb week long lockouts that make no sense.

Coil=> Single small reoccurring instance (DFable), not very difficult, a step down in terms of gear (i80gear from CT), lowered difficulty etc...

I'm just saying CT has all the benefits of a large raid that an FC would otherwise enjoy strategizing, beating a hard raid, and getting all the gear yet its wasted.

Coil has the difficulty and gear but its not FC friendly at all, this is why a majority of players run it with randoms and don't beat T5 yet alone have trouble with T4.

I dunno just my 2cents. I hope they make more CT styled raids in the future that are on par with Coil's difficulty, gear, and planning. I guess stop catering only to casuals or something.

I like the way it is now. switch CT and coil difficulty? think Twintania now or before twister nurf and make it 24 man difficulty. it hard enough to get 8 ppl with decent to perfect execution, would be immpossible with 24 people ><

difficulty isn't the only problem though. Coil is what people want to do cause it has all the gear but its very limiting and not involving for FCs. CT on the other hand has the capabilities to support a FC raid and be the raid that they have to really work together to beat but its completely wasted IMO and the gear is going to be pointless after myth cap patch.

CT isn't pointless! It's for, what was it they said.... Oh yes, vanity gear. Ahem.... >.>;

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

CT isn't pointless! It's for, what was it they said.... Oh yes, vanity gear. Ahem.... >.>;

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It wouldnt have been had the released it fist, as was the original plan.

And its still good for gearin up alt jobs/characters.

Well, CT was originally planned to have been the stepping point to Coil. Sadly, it wasn't debugged adequately to their liking so we didn't get it at launch. A shame but if it was as bad as they made it seem to not be ready by launch, then it was for the best not to have been available then.

Well, no one is debating whether CT was supposed to be in game at launch or not. It's that Myth grinding combined with Coil grinding will make CT more obsolete, which is a shame cause it's the only 24-man content we have now.
Don't think Yoshida used the famed "it'll be good for vanity gear" statement just cause. Think they're well aware of the situation and what the delay of CT implementation did. The question is whether they'll do something about it with the 2.2 changes coming (like spicing CT with more crafting mats for example, lifting the item restriction etc.) Anything to make it a tad bit more attractive for 24 people to want to do it.

Shame really as I do enjoy CT a couple times a week (not more than 3 times >.>;;; damn you BRD belt.... only took me 3 weeks ._.) but at least we know more floors are coming eventually.

Dunno.... My personal opinion is that we're moving too fast, in regards to gear, for 6 months in. Mostly in the vertical direction. It's like they're panicking that the end-gamers will abandon ship, asap, unless they're fed new iLvl or new BiS or a shiny primal EX weapon.

Nah.

If CT was the long dungeon then we'd know exactly who the final boss of the dungeon is, which is no fun.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

It's that Myth grinding combined with Coil grinding will make CT more obsolete, which is a shame cause it's the only 24-man content we have now.

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To me I still see it as the stepping stone to be able to grind coil. Grind ct until you get enough myth/ ct gear to be able to grind coil.

It will be LESS usefull than it is now, but far from completely pointless.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

if it was as bad as they made it seem to not be ready by launch, then it was for the best not to have been available then.

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Ever have a group wipe multiple times on the Atomos trash? Yoshi said every encounter had similar mechanics before the revamp. PuG groups are almost unbearable now, they would have been practically impossible then.

We need a real 24-man raid

CT and coil should have been the same difficulty and same item lv. One dropping allagan gear and the other dropping mythology gear.

It sucks that CT will always be less useful every update.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

To me I still see it as the stepping stone to be able to grind coil. Grind ct until you get enough myth/ ct gear to be able to grind coil.

It will be LESS usefull than it is now, but far from completely pointless.

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True, hence I said more obsolete and not completely obsolete :x

On a different note; I'd personally grind a shorter lv50 dungeon in 4/4 for Myth/Philo unless I really wanted an item from CT for whatever reason.

Another good thing is, if I recall correctly, that we're getting Myth crafting mats. So, at least all the grinding that we'll have to do can be done in various places (lv50 dungeons, CT, maps, dailies).

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Originally Posted by Remn

I like the way it is now. switch CT and coil difficulty? think Twintania now or before twister nurf and make it 24 man difficulty. it hard enough to get 8 ppl with decent to perfect execution, would be immpossible with 24 people ><

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WoW used to have 40 man raids. I understand why they ended up reducing it, but when it worked, it was awesome to be a part of.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Thoughts on Coil and CT, should they have been switched?

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I think they should be switched in terms of release since CT is a lower ilvl than Coil. Should have been ilvl 70 (DL) -> ilvl 80 (CT) -> ilvl 90 (Coil).

As everyone knows CT should have been in at launch, but balance was out and thus postponed.


So.

2.0 would have been Labrynth of the Ancients with level 80 gear, Giving us at launch. darklight ilvl 70, LotA ilvl 80, myth and coil ilvl 90.

2.1 should have been the first expansion for Crystal Tower, probably giving us another option for ilvl 90.

Then 2.2 with expanded Coil with ilvl 100 (lets say). 2.3 with further levels of CT adding another ilvl 100 set.

Which overall would have made more sense.

But.

With LotA being delayad and replacing the first extansion to CT it puts the gear level 2 updates behind what it should have been.

Question is, is SE going to catch up with CT to a level that it should have been?

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

WoW used to have 40 man raids. I understand why they ended up reducing it, but when it worked, it was awesome to be a part of.

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40 mans were a NIGHTMARE to organize, you ended up waiting for people longer than you raided.

the only thing difficult about ct at all is dealing with the trash players that join it. with a half decent group it is absolutely steamrolled.

it's in the order it was meant to be as far as difficulty and the drops. the problem was ct wasn't ready when it should have went in game. it got delayed which pushed it from being relevant content to vanity gear type drops.

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CT=> Long instance with many bosses, strategizing, planning, 24pc (Large FC friendly), high lvl of difficulty, etc... similar to a dynamis from ffxi. This would have increased socializing, friending, basically player involvement in an FC. It could have had a 48 hour lockout instead of these dumb week long lockouts that make no sense.

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I have a 100 person FC. On a good day (more like evening) we have 25-30 people on. Of which maybe HALF is ELIGIBLE to do endgame content (they don't necessarily feel like it, maybe they had other plans for that night). Organizing a 24-man run of really tight difficulty content is simply something we could probably NEVER do. We are lucky enough to get enough for a decent coil static and enough people to go CT for myth early in the week.

Of course, we aren't a endgame-only FC. We don't only get people in the FC with the intention of slotting them in a static. We even get lv 1 people. I don't think only dedicated FCs should be the only ones even able to ATTEMPT the harder content. Maybe they'll succeed more, maybe they'll succeed earlier. But not even having a shot is stupid.

Plus having very tight 24-man content, even with an elite FC, is just BEGGING to fail. You might have more death margins with 24, but it's also WAY easier to fuck it all up if its very tightly tuned.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

WoW used to have 40 man raids. I understand why they ended up reducing it, but when it worked, it was awesome to be a part of.

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awesome? seriously... pink colored glasses of nostalgia are really really changing your memory...

it was a pain to organize the strategy was often soo simple in term of tactics than a fight in dungeon of 5 was looking more challenging. most of the fight was hitting a boss for ages, because they had to give them tons of hp too...

the only challenge that bring a content with more of 20 people... is organize and make sure everyone follows the strategy... generally, strategy on this sort of content are sooo easy and soo small.

even the most recent content in WoW wasn't that hard, the only pain was to have 25 people that was gear check, knowing the strategy and be able to play together... nothing really hard.

with smaller group content, first it's easier to make more difficult and more demanding fight. less people to organize or to focus. second, with hard content with more people, you will have a big trouble for the player on the ps3 and ps4, it will limite the acces to that content to people that have keyboard and acces to a vocal. finally, it's easier to balance a content for 8 people than 24, more people, means more random.

ps: i still remember hunter in MC that was simply going afk in feign death. in a group of 8 you are sure that everybody was fighting!!

It's fine as it is. Its a lot easier to have a set group of 8 people in your FC that you go with that are raid aware and don't mess up mechanics then getting 24 skilled players. In like wow for example 25 man raids took a lot more work to manage then 10 man raids.

8 the smaller number its much easier to work with peoples schedules and what not to do the content.

Pretty sure the next CT will be on coil6-9 level. If they do the backwards progression again subs won't last. People already are Monday night raiders as it is now. I get 2.1 CT because it was already made and set for that 2.3 they have no excuses.

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Originally Posted by SanjuroXI

Pretty sure the next CT will be on coil6-9 level. If they do the backwards progression again subs won't last. People already are Monday night raiders as it is now. I get 2.1 CT because it was already made and set for that 2.3 they have no excuses.

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In interviews they already said that CT will be the casual raid again when 2.3 is out with similar difficulty to the CT now.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Anyone else think CT and coils FC fundamentals, difficulty, and gear should have been switched?

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Depends what you mean by difficulty. If you are asking for a 24 man raid with the teamwork and synchronisation needed for Coil, then no that would be absurd.

Maybe its just cause I like big game hunting and large fight operations, teamwork, survival... and most importantly challenge. I'm not saying a hard 8man raid isn't fun or good for an FC. I'm saying a hard 24man raid would make things REALLY interesting for FC's. Gaps could be filled for FC's lacking in members.

Maybe its just me (and even if it is, that's ok) but a 24 man raid with the teamwork and synchronization needed for coil would be pretty fun. I don't have much fun doing coil where there is little room for error and after 1 healer or tank drops, the fights practically over while in a CT styled dungeon, leaders can take command of a situation and recover and still bash their face against it giving everything they got till its dead. Guess I just miss BGH styled gaming or something, ffxi had that element quite a bit but I know this isn't ffxi so its not quite right to say so. Was just wondering mostly what people thought of coil <=> CT in terms of a 24 man raid having the difficulty and drops. Looks like people have a very lower impression of the playerbase. I think a lot of the playerbase suffers from lag problems more so than inability to dodge or play well.