Up IL requirement for Titan HM

So this i think is something everyone has had the unfortunate experience of. You Q for Titan HM and get placed on a team of BARELY item level 57 and that simply is NOT sufficient for taking down titan. VERY seldom do you get a team that can pull the DPS required to make it past heart phase, afterwards it really is just a skill check. To avoid the DPS check I think the item requirement needs to be bumped up to 70, that way the only thing you need to worry about is people actually working through the game mechanics.

You can down Titan HM with iLvl 57, but not really with PUGs. ILvL 70 is Ifrit XM.

the problem isn't gears , its more about having a decent uptime of dps at heart. 1st goal must be focused FAST, and the gaoled person quickly be esuna'ed to remove damage debuff. 2nd gaol ignored until heart killed. All dps alive and doing a not-terrible rotation. As bard I saved all offensive cooldowns for heart. if a group did all that and still didn't break heart in time, I'd be kinda surprised. Only heart is dps check at titan, rest is skill check.

Edit: though I will agree with you though, I don't see why people should be anywhere near titan hm w/o a piece or 2 of CT and idk, 3-4-5 DL gears, I just don't think gears is the problem most of the time in titan hm....

I would like to point out that there is a huge difference in changing the item level from 57 to 70. If you were asking for 57 to 58, 59, 60, or even 61, okay. I could at least empathize. Unfortunately, just because DF groups are usually less organized, prepared, knowledgeable, or whatever else isn't a good reason to force everyone that ques to meet a significantly higher standard.

The last few times I queued for Titan HM, we one-shotted it, there were at least 2 relics in the group, and there was little fail. On the other hand, I have had groups that even with several tries, can only get the heart down to 50% before Earthen fury. Even if the ilv requirement was full i90, I don't think these groups would have succeeded. Unfortunately, there are people that don't know how the class they are playing works and people that for a variety of reasons can't/don't dodge things. BLM that only do blizzard "so they don't run out of mp", PLD that rotate Riot Blade and flash with no oath up, WHM and SCH that are constantly oom because of overhealing, SMN that don't use all of their dots or fester...

I'm going to stop here. There is more to be said, but simply put, No, the item level requirement does not need to be increased to buffer groups that will have a more difficult time in completing content.

For low ilvl players, Titan Hm is all about Survivability, and dps. You have to be able to kill the heart in time, also be geared enough to survive the post heart stomps.

I think rather than adding item levels.... a solo attunement fight is what this game needs... or even multiple ones. I was told FFXI had these but I never played, so I wont comment there. What I did play that did this well was The Secret World and the Gatekeeper. You had to 1v1 this boss that changed its abilities based on which role you chose. You were unable to do any Hard Mode dungeons until you beat the gatekeeper. It was a neat little skill check.

We all know gear does not equal skill and while it can help carry bad players a bit.... those same players are often carried to that gear in the first place. I feel like a solo attunement boss would help get people on the right skill levels to be grouped together... especially if there were multiple teirs of said boss based on the difficulty of the content it unlocked.

Now, such a thing would bring out bad players in mobs with forks and pitchforks.... which is ashame.

Now change Titan HM, to pretty much all 50+ content and I'm in full agreement. The ilvl requirements is ridiculously low in this game. I'm getting sort of sick and tired seeing people with level 43 white weapons in the top tier dungeons but watch as we bash our heads into a wall because their weapons drag their DPS down so much.

Titan HM is just not that tightly tuned. Breaking the heart is easier when you have a bunch of relics but most of the time the dps is just not focused. They wait forever to dps the first gaol, healers don't cleanse the debuffs, dps attack the second gaol, the group has dead dps, or the dps just don't know how to optimize their damage. In a pf group I usually set the iLevel for 67 and even with one dps off the platform we manage to break the heart. With a higher iLevel the group has more room to compensate for mistakes. The iLevel requirement's function is not to compensate in this way. After the hundreds of carries I've done it's a relief to not see "must be full DL, primal weapon!" i70 item level is straight up overgeared for this content and I'm relieved the iLevel is what it is. I wish they would remove the iLevel requirement for all preformed groups and only have it when using the DF.

Completely beatable by ilvl 57 group. Recommened 3300+HP but you can do it under that (You really only need 2800-2900 to survive P5 stomps). Bards need to know when to cast Ballad for you healers if they are low ilvl and healers need to know how to manage MP. DPS needs to follow the preset pattern and all will go fine. Problem=Dumb People not the ilvl requirement.

When me and my friends were first attempting/clearing Titan HM back around a month after launch, we were mostly in the iLvl 60 gear the dropped from AK (I guess now its dropped in the hard mode dungeons), with maybe a few pieces of Dark Light, and a mix of Ifrit/Garuda weapons. We didn't have free CT i80 drops each week and we didn't have a plethora of relic DPS on the server to come help us out, and we still managed.

I think the iLvl requirement is completely appropriate.

It's certainly doable at i57 - if everyone knows what they're doing, and 99 out of 100 times, at least one person doesn't know what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Twinbros

So this i think is something everyone has had the unfortunate experience of. You Q for Titan HM and get placed on a team of BARELY item level 57 and that simply is NOT sufficient for taking down titan. VERY seldom do you get a team that can pull the DPS required to make it past heart phase, afterwards it really is just a skill check. To avoid the DPS check I think the item requirement needs to be bumped up to 70, that way the only thing you need to worry about is people actually working through the game mechanics.

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70 is too high, you need to do Titan HM to have the relic, and probably the relic to be 70. Usually the problem is not the gear, but that there are one or two dead people before the heart dies, and DPS is not enough. If everybody is at minimum ilevel it gets harder, but usually people have several DL, some CT, etc. Philo tomes are easy with Main Story Roulette. Normally if too many people die before the heart, after the heart it will be worse, since it gets much harder. If all are alive during heart phase the chances are the heart dies, and people are probably skilled, so probabilities are higher.

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Originally Posted by Iymala

I think rather than adding item levels.... a solo attunement fight is what this game needs... or even multiple ones.

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This is the most productive idea.

The first few times I went to Titan HM in DF, I was bad. I "knew" the fight from reading strategies and watching videos... but I'm just not that good at executing a strategy I haven't done before. I really wish there were (repeatable) attunement that allowed me to practice dodging all the crap.

Also, the first time I went in Titan HM I was all ilv 70+ gear, and there were several players in much worse gear that were better at... everything... so, even requiring ilv 70+ wouldn't solve the problem of bad players in titan hm.

I half wonder if it should just be removed from DF??

If you have problems with Titan HM in DF, try using the PF to put together a party.

In PF I usually request i65+ and people that have experience (not necessary to have beaten, just know the fight and have tried it before).

My Titan HM record:
WHM, 3 visits to clear for Thyrus
SCH, 2 visits to clear for Omnilex
SMN, 2 visits to clear for The Veil of Wiyu

In PF you can set single tank requirement as dual tank isn't necessary, and even 3 healer if you get good DPS.

If u think u need ilvl 70 for titan hm, u are extremely unskilled player. I can understand increasing it to ilvl 60, but not higher.

Some people do play with friends, and with free companies (which is more or less the point of playing an MMO btw), and personnaly, I would hate to have to increase more my ilvl just to be able to have another relic. I know the fight and my ilvl won't change my skill. It will only change my HP. Before asking to SE changing the ilvl, you can :
- Go to the fight with people you trust (even if you don't have friends or FC, you can still add in FL/linshell some people you tried with, who were performing consistently)
- Use the party finder to set up your own ilvl.

isn't it enough?
PS : 70 means you are full DL, and have a farmed a good weapon....It's just plain stupid to force people to have more than this. And actually, you can absolutely do this with a way lower ilvl........
Stop thinking that overgearing a fight will be a smart compensation for the lack of people skill. It's false, especially for this fight. You would only have people with the same lack of knowledge of the mechanics, but they would hurt more/have more HP. Dodging plumes and landslides isn't something you learn with some ilvl, you just learn it by training at it

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

If u think u need ilvl 70 for titan hm, u are extremely unskilled player. I can understand increasing it to ilvl 60, but not higher.

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Some people think that to get higher level gear you must have some skill. In older games that was often true. In this game you can craft ilv70 without entering a dungeon.

I would say if you can get a 8 man party together than you ilvl shouldnt be changed from what its at already but when you enter alone on a solo bias than it should be 10 lvls higher than that. ilvl may not mean skills but it does show you have been in some tough situations to earn the ilvl you are wearing right now.

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Originally Posted by Jakobi

When me and my friends were first attempting/clearing Titan HM back around a month after launch, we were mostly in the iLvl 60 gear the dropped from AK (I guess now its dropped in the hard mode dungeons), with maybe a few pieces of Dark Light, and a mix of Ifrit/Garuda weapons. We didn't have free CT i80 drops each week and we didn't have a plethora of relic DPS on the server to come help us out, and we still managed.

I think the iLvl requirement is completely appropriate.

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yeah, i remember those days, i was using a garuda book, i was so exited when we beat it, ilvl its not the matter, the mechanics are, repetition, repetition, repetition, thats it

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Originally Posted by lyndwyrm

BLM that only do blizzard "so they don't run out of mp", PLD that rotate Riot Blade and flash with no oath up, WHM and SCH that are constantly oom because of overhealing, SMN that don't use all of their dots or fester...

I'm going to stop here. There is more to be said, but simply put, No, the item level requirement does not need to be increased to buffer groups that will have a more difficult time in completing content.

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This. I can't tell you how many groups i've run with a SMN where me (as SCH) was the one using shadow flare/DoT'ing. The worst part? even after seeing me do this, they still wouldn't do it.....

You know the worst part of Titan HM?

That your gear means nothing if SE can't mitigate their server issues~

Full DL gear, i70weapon
6ft away from landslide -> red aggro line and being shoved off the edge
2ft from WoL -> flat on my ass after being "on the very edge"

Server position-checks once every 0.3 seconds, add in latency and that can be upwards of 0.7-1.0 seconds.

Titan HM wouldn't be hard IF it wasn't for the consistent lag spikes.

Gear isn't what can make Titan difficult. Upping IL requirement will solve nothing.

i90 PLD here, jumped in PF to help out Titan HM. All party was average i75, except one person who was probably i65. Barely could clear heart, and couldn't avoid bombs after so never finished it. Also went in the same group as i76 WHM and I was usually the last person standing before we decided to wipe, aside from the tank. And I usually had to DPS as WHM to kill the heart.

I'm on a PS3 as well.

It really is knowing the fight, when the pools come around and where to stand for bombs and when to not stand still for landslide or pools. I know some people try to let that last casting go through, but time and again, it's not worth it. Titan wants you to dance. Learn to skip to the tune and you'll be fine.

Stop using DF for content that is too difficult for most players.

iLevel for Titan HM could be a tad higher although I agree, it is more a matter of knowing the rotation and beeing able to dodge. I would never try Titan HM through DF, never ever lol. What I wonder about is, there are so many people having trouble with the fight; why aren't there any training parties? All I see in Group finder are experienced groups (that sometimes turn out to be not that experienced lol). Same for the Extreme fights. Learning parties? Nope. All you see is EXP only or 1 fail = kick. I am lucky and can do such content with my FC but why don't others use the Group finder to find people in the same boat? You can ask the DEV's for a thousand things but sometimes it is up to you and nobody else to do something if you are facing a problem.

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Originally Posted by Rein-Yagami

You know the worst part of Titan HM?

That your gear means nothing if SE can't mitigate their server issues~

Full DL gear, i70weapon
6ft away from landslide -> red aggro line and being shoved off the edge
2ft from WoL -> flat on my ass after being "on the very edge"

Server position-checks once every 0.3 seconds, add in latency and that can be upwards of 0.7-1.0 seconds.

Titan HM wouldn't be hard IF it wasn't for the consistent lag spikes.

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Instance position-check is every 0.1 seconds.

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Originally Posted by AlrikRouge

i90 PLD here, jumped in PF to help out Titan HM. All party was average i75, except one person who was probably i65. Barely could clear heart, and couldn't avoid bombs after so never finished it. Also went in the same group as i76 WHM and I was usually the last person standing before we decided to wipe, aside from the tank. And I usually had to DPS as WHM to kill the heart.

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That sounds more like serious dps rotation issues, aside from being unable to dodge... You can clear heart without issues with much less than what you describe easily.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Instance position-check is every 0.1 seconds.

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Unless they've changed it since it was stated in a live-letter that it was 0.3 seconds, then you're wrong~

the point still remains that their system at (Lvl3 - Montreal) cannot handle what they are asking it to do, as such sometimes you'll end up standing still for 5+ seconds in the middle of combat~ against Titan this is disastrous and can get you plumed, landslid or bombed without even seeing aoes.

Titan really has nothing to do with gear, he has insane amounts of lag and mechanics that aren't dodgable with said lag.

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Originally Posted by Rein-Yagami

Unless they've changed it since it was stated in a live-letter that it was 0.3 seconds, then you're wrong~

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They indeed changed it in 2.1 with the introduction of EX primals.

Glad I have less than 1/4 of a second lag while doing instances. My Dragoon win on Titan was with AK gear, HQ Champions Lance and a couple DL accessories. Everyone else was pretty well the same other than the Tank who had full DL and a Garuda weapon.
But that was before gear restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

That sounds more like serious dps rotation issues, aside from being unable to dodge... You can clear heart without issues with much less than what you describe easily.

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Agreed. That's my point. It is not the iLevel but the skill level.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

They indeed changed it in 2.1 with the introduction of EX primals.

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Coolio, shame it's done nothing to reduce the insane amount of lag some players still get~

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Originally Posted by Rein-Yagami

Coolio, shame it's done nothing to reduce the insane amount of lag some players still get~

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That change was requested by players. And it actually made things worse as the network congestion turned worse as a result.

completely doable even in AF gear as long as you're appropriately skilled.

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Originally Posted by Rein-Yagami

Coolio, shame it's done nothing to reduce the insane amount of lag some players still get~

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It was reduced, but not for all the game, only for Wolves Den and some fights (primals I think, and I don't know what more.)
Lag is caused also by the distance from the servers to the country the player is on, or not enough good inter-country (or inter-telephone company, or both, I don't know) connections.

minimum item level isn't the problem. response time/skill level is.
(for the record, the fight is laughably easy)