This might be why people don't want SMNs much. (Coil Related)

Tried to get a quick Turn 1 and 2 of Coil in today, find a PF group, we start at the snake, the other Summoner on the team is already in the arena near the snake. He doesn't control Ifrit, which I don't know why he has him out for this, Ifrit starts the fight early, gets killed, then the SMN dies and everyone rushes in to start it. We finish the fight, with me dropping an always satisfying LB3 Meteor, and pull it off while down a DPS. Once the treasure comes out, he greeds on Monk leggings, and gets them. So not only did he screw up the fight early and commit nothing to it, but he also gets gear for doing nothing. This honestly pisses me off a little, and I don't believe he should have been able to roll for anything, lords knows why the rest of the party didn't speak up and say he shouldn't have been able to after that.

/rant

Was this fair at all or even logical?

Hit posting limit, don't expect replies anytime soon.

The only point I was attempting to convey was pretty simple. He starts the run for us early, messes things up and dies, commits nothing to the actual fight, but still manages to have the audacity to Greed role for loot which he did nothing to deserve or earn. If people are going to make random groups for coil through Party Finder, there should already be unspoken rules, one which would specify that if you get carried through the fight, you have no right or privilege to the loot that drops. I was never concerned with getting the Monk gear, I focused on the PLD leggings that dropped. My frustration lies in that there was no accountability for his actions, and one reason I find that people don't want SMNs for runs like that over a Bard or Black Mage, is because they don't control their pets well. He did not, and I was the only one to speak up and say at the end that he should not have rolled for that when he did nothing to help anyone. That is all.

sad story, you are mad for gear in a video game ; ; how terrible it is. you decide to put hanger for gear in a game....i feel sorry for you bro ; ;
/comfort

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Originally Posted by mikoto_qc

sad story, you are mad for gear in a video game ; ; how terrible it is. you decide to put hanger for gear in a game....i feel sorry for you bro ; ;
/comfort

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Was that even English? I don't see why I wouldn't be a little irritated after something like that.

I just want to say that this is a great thread title because this is obviously an accurate reflection on all people who play the SMN class.

Don't invite Summoners to your raid. They never control their pets, always die, and will ninjaloot your precious Monk gear.

This has nothing to do with summoners besides the fact that he didn't control the pet. Hell you can put it on Obey now without any target so.... it's just him. You didn't specify loot rule so: he was there, he could roll greed on it. Not like your level 15 pugilist can use it anyway so why are you mad?

Pet's very often start fights unexpectedly. Bards do too lol

As for the greed role, well that's what it is, everyone can greed role - just a random number. One more reason to play with static, or at least people you know/have played with instead of random groups.

Replace that smn with an idiot on any job and you'd have the exact same story.

SMN is excellent on all turns even bordering on essential (as essential as a job can be anyway) for some.

In my raid group, our SMN is one of the best on our team. Are SCH equally as bad? I think your post is more about that specific SMN than SMNs in general.

It was party finder, if they want special loot rules, they should state them, if you want them, start your own party. It wasn't your party, no loot rules were stated beforehand saying if you accidentally pull early and die, but we win you don't get loot, if the group would have listened to you, and denied this summoner the right to greed roll, then he could have reported all of you, and whoever got the monk legs could have them taken away, and there possibly could have been a suspension or two in the mix.

Someone go to that reddit thread and tell that smn that parsed 400 dps on t1 that he is a liability to groups lol.

People are bad at every job, even a smn that knows only the essentials will do amazing dps.

not bashing the 2 mages that left a dps dead entire fight?
swiftcast > raise is hard

How is this even related to Summoners?

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes.


There aren't any "unwritten rules"... if you want to play a dungeon by specific rules, then state them upon entering. If the rest of the group agrees, then you got yourself a verbal agreement. If they don't, then back out and find a group that will play the game the way you want it to be played.

Ninja Looting is always annoying, but not live devestating, ...

but i don´t see how this is SMN or Coil ... or even ARR related.

This has nothing to do with summoners.
It has everything to do with someone just being bad :P

You shoulda kicked him the moment you saw him bringing Ifrit into coil!

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Originally Posted by krazyrs

not bashing the 2 mages that left a dps dead entire fight?
swiftcast > raise is hard

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He returned to the beginning of the area as soon as the fight started, so when the gate locked us in, he was locked out by that point, he didn't wait for anyone to even attempt to Raise him.

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Originally Posted by wicked-one

Ninja Looting is always annoying, but not live devestating, ...

but i don´t see how this is SMN or Coil ... or even ARR related.

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It was something that annoyed me for a few minutes, nothing after that.

Reasons I see stated when looking for PF groups on why they don't want SMNs is usually one of these few reasons:
1. People don't control or use their pets effectively
2. They do not keep up with Black Mages in damage, or in particular fights, they want more Melee classes to take advantage of a fight's mechanic(like the snake's Tail Whip attack which they like to activate so he doesn't do any other attacks for a few seconds, which any class could easily run over and trigger while attacking, but since a Caster would need to be moving and not using all of their spells, they don't want anyone else besides a Melee because they can lock-on and swivel around the target)

There have been other reasons like Bards over SMNs but right now I'm not coming up with anything more concrete.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

There have been other reasons like Bards over SMNs but right now I'm not coming up with anything more concrete.

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I know one. They're dumb enough not to realize how high the DPS of Summoners can be. {You're welcome.}

And wow, since you're claiming that you see those things you listed in Shiva's Party Finder, does that mean the players in there are............. IYKWIM. Or are you just making up those, which is obviously you are.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

2. They do not keep up with Black Mages in damage,

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LMAOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

I know one. They're dumb enough not to realize how high the DPS of Summoners can be. {You're welcome.}

And wow, since you're claiming that you see those things you listed in Shiva's Party Finder, does that mean the players in there are............. IYKWIM. Or are you just making up those, which is obviously you are.

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No idea what IYKWIM is, feel free to enlighten me. And no I'm not making those up, those things have been told to me several dozen times across a lot of the Duty Roulette missions and otherwise that I've run across. Of course Summoner has great DPS potential, but most would rather go with another class if they think someone won''t use them well to begin with, I've been denied access to groups simply because they preferred a Bard or Black Mage over Summoners, in Party Finder I rarely see a DPS slot of SMNs because they're only taking BLMs, MNKs, DRGs, or Bards.

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Originally Posted by Jamez82

LMAOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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I don't try to understand the player-base often, but I usually incur penalties from leaving matches when I hear someone say something like that, they still think SMN isn't a great class because of it's past.

You're too confusing, now it's in Duty Roulettes? Bah. I'd better leave before I lose my mind with your nonsense.

I have this feeling that you have a huge hate over Summoners, just stick with your almighty ACN please, and stop spewing BS about Summoners.

Edit:
Actually, you're the only one left here who's still being haunted by Summoner's past experience in XI like what you're always referring to.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

You're too confusing, now it's in Duty Roulettes? Bah. I'd better leave before I lose my mind with your nonsense.

I have this feeling that you have a huge hate over Summoners, just stick with your almighty ACN please, and stop spewing BS about Summoners.

Edit:
Actually, you're the only one left here who's still being haunted by Summoner's past experience in XI like what you're always referring to.

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I don't just stay in Party Finder, you can't get anything done if you don't use the Duty Roulette since that's most people's main income for Tomestones, did you even know this?

When did I spew any BS? Are you actually saying this objectively or is your rump sore about something because this is an awful lot of hostility for someone else's experiences and opinions.

As a Sum I have also done this, done by the way of just having Garuda out and when in guard mode (even though a huge distance away) it will fly at the snake.

The solution is to spawn the pet once in position, when it first happened I did it with s/cast as I ran towards the mob once the fight had started but then I lose s/cast for shadowflare.

I dont think your experience of a lost loot item and wipe should reflect badly on all of us, others also get aggro accidentally, its part of the game now and again.

To point a class out like that does no real good as its a learning curve, once by the snake area the pet starts going crazy flying away, I dont know if that is intentional or not.

BLM are below SMN and both melee classes in potential damage over a decent length single-target parse, making them actually one of the worst lol. In exchange they have the best burst damage and aoe.

If we want to factor in bad players then they are often the worst because lots of players apparently don't know how to deal with moving and maintaining dps.

I feel I should edit this in before people take it the wrong way; despite all of this every dps job can do over 300 dps, which is more than enough for anything in the game and if you can reach this on any job you'll probably do top dps in any group.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-in-this-game

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Originally Posted by Huntington

When did I spew any BS?

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When you created a thread making sweeping sensationalist generalizations about a class based on your bad experience with a low tier player.

For those complaining cause "bad SMN didn't control pet", it's not even bad or lazy SMN's, there's something about that room with pets. As soon as you cross the thresh hold to the arena they dash for the door. On my SCH I've seen my fairy run through the exit only to pop back next to me and do it again until I move. There's just something about that room that messes with the SMN AI if you're not paying attention and they dash to the door and can start the fight early depending on where you position before hand.

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

For those complaining cause "bad SMN didn't control pet", it's not even bad or lazy SMN's, there's something about that room with pets. As soon as you cross the thresh hold to the arena they dash for the door. On my SCH I've seen my fairy run through the exit only to pop back next to me and do it again until I move. There's just something about that room that messes with the SMN AI if you're not paying attention and they dash to the door and can start the fight early depending on where you position before hand.

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This. Pets just act weird in the Turn 1 boss area, and there's nothing you can do about it (I suppose you could place them, but this is counterproductive when you haven't even moved into position yet). I usually desummon mine as we unlock the boss room and swiftcast+summon once the fight begins, for this very reason.

I'm sorry, but I've NEVER seen a pet do this. Pet control is pretty simple, people - if you don't want your pet to aggro or do ANYTHING, set them to Steady - all they will do is follow you around. Then, when you want to control them, set them to Obey or if you want them to do their own thing, set them to Sic. EZPZ

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Originally Posted by stuscott

I'm sorry, but I've NEVER seen a pet do this. EZPZ

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I'm not sure if you've ran turn one with a scholar or sum but for some reason pets fly off and aggro the boss. My fairy did it this week. I keep her set to obey. It's a bug that I hope gets fixed soon.

OP, I don't see the point of this thread. You pugged coil and set no loot rules. You had no Monk to need roll for the loot so everyone greeded and he won, which is not "ninja". He had the right to greed just like everyone else in the party. Despite getting killed by this T1 bug and releasing too early. Just kick him next time he joins your party if you don't like how he plays.

All your other blanket statements are just silly. I love having a SMN in my coil groups. They are great dps, great healer support through damage mitigation and can help rez.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

This. Pets just act weird in the Turn 1 boss area, and there's nothing you can do about it (I suppose you could place them, but this is counterproductive when you haven't even moved into position yet). I usually desummon mine as we unlock the boss room and swiftcast+summon once the fight begins, for this very reason.

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Yeah they're pretty wacky around the T1 boss room. If it happens, just use Heel to stop them from doing it.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

with me dropping an always satisfying LB3 Meteor

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lol @ your ego for pressing a single button

I didn't say set your pet to Obey - I said set your pet to Steady and change it to Obey when you start the fight... =)

Seriously, you should rethink that. Nothing of the stuff you explained couldn't be done by any oher class.
Ok, he had Ifrit Egi out, but:
I saw Bards not using dots on Garuda EX, PLDs not using CDs on Ultima, Melees not using the LB on Titan HM etc. etc. etc.
There are bad and good players on any class.
Also on a run with no loot rules, everyone is allowed to grab pretty much anything (i usually do that, do not see any problems).
Apart from that SMN is actually the DPS class which is hardest to play in my opinion and there are a lot of very good SMN players out there. The class is also very useful in almost any encountes as SMN can debuff, use spike single target and even AoE damage.

there is a bug right after the CS where pets go crazy and start to fly away the instance and insta appear right next to its summoner, for that u need to press heel or re summon and its not a summoner issue that he greed on the loot