Raid Dungeon Puzzles

Hello everyone just wanted to share a thought I had about future raids being introduced, and wanted to know whats your preference on dungeons.

I understand that raids are being introduced with strategy in mind, but does that mean hack and slash while keeping healed, or will there be also small puzzles to solve through out the dungeon. I thought last night, an interesting concept would be if the dungeon branched off into two paths where the party of 4 or 8 would have to spit up and help each other get further into the dungeon. When they get to the final room, or certain points in the dungeon, the party comes together to fight bigger battles.

The pros: Elements of Strategy, more than just walking through a place, killing things.

The cons: Relying on people you can't see on the other side of the dungeon. This stresses communication.

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Please, I'd like to hear more thoughts on raid dungeon puzzles I'll try to put your idea on the main post with credit to you.

Feedback:
->Zelda Esque Puzzles (moving blocks, hitting switches) -Greencactuar
->Indirect Boss Fight (Such as Ursula's Cauldron in Kingdom Hearts) -Swev
->More environmental immersion (Boulders, Swimming,Climbing, ect) -Swev
->Certain monsters solve puzzles (Bring a Bomb mob to a wall to have it self destruct) -Elexia

Relevent Pages:

Treasure chests, hidden items/rooms, switches/puzzles for current and future dungeons
-By Teknoman


Random Disclaimerrr :] (I currently do not play FFXIV. I own a copy but my computer isn't good enough to run it. Please, stay rational folks, I may not be a player but I suppose everyone is allowed input right?)

- Sincerely
Rai Raymont of Trabia

I think they will be a lot like Dynamis where you have to go kill X Y Z Nm in different parts of the zone to be able to get access to the final NM. I'm just basing this judgement of how the zones are designed.

Also judging by the 1 hour time limit, it does not seem like there will be a lot to do other than run around killing everything.

I do hope they bring in puzzle's in the same sorta vain as Nyzul was, 30 mins 5 floors , puzzles galore, never know what you would get so it felt alot mroe unqiue than the same maps, mounsters and puzzles all the time, great short event with plenty of vairty even with the short time limit to not just go on a mounster Burn.

Yeah your probably right. Though different dungeons for different folks. It could be possible on later raids that different dungeons could have larger time limits.

There's a lot of good ideas involving puzzles in this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uture-dungeons

It even has a dev post, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viion

I think they will be a lot like Dynamis where you have to go kill X Y Z Nm in different parts of the zone to be able to get access to the final NM. I'm just basing this judgement of how the zones are designed.

Also judging by the 1 hour time limit, it does not seem like there will be a lot to do other than run around killing everything.

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did you forget ffxi nyzul isle? 60min time limit and each floor change and they had lot's to do it was away about killing X,Y,Z mobs but they had lamps which was not killing anything and that was harder then killing the mobs it self lol.

I really enjoyed Nyzul Isle. I hope they adopt similar content in 14.

I like your idea, not for every dungeons of course but I don't see why this could not be achieved and it could be a lot of fun. The cons are mostly obsolete since even if you don't split up you are still relying on the skill of your party members.

Nyzul, Salvage, Einherjar (to an extent), limbus (to an extent), outland dynamis (to extent) and Sky/Sea areas are good concepts.

It's also confirmed there's multiple paths, so it's a good possibility that it will have basic puzzles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

There's a lot of good ideas involving puzzles in this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uture-dungeons

It even has a dev post, too.

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Thanks, I'll check it out. :] Doesn't mean my thread has to die though :/ it's tagged with a different dev number

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

did you forget ffxi nyzul isle? 60min time limit and each floor change and they had lot's to do it was away about killing X,Y,Z mobs but they had lamps which was not killing anything and that was harder then killing the mobs it self lol.

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I did not forget, but I dont think that will happen, theres no floors and i dont see how it would work. They've already said though you have different paths and depending on the ones you take will depend on .. something else i forgets. But all dungeons have big doors which could open/close depending on path you choose.

Sad thing is everyone will just pick the best path and that feature be made redundant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viion

Sad thing is everyone will just pick the best path and that feature be made redundant.

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Maybe those paths will be random so that you cannot plan which way you go really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Hello everyone just wanted to share a thought I had about future raids being introduced, and wanted to know whats your preference on dungeons.

I understand that raids are being introduced with strategy in mind, but does that mean hack and slash while keeping healed, or will there be also small puzzles to solve through out the dungeon. I thought last night, an interesting concept would be if the dungeon branched off into two paths where the party of 4 or 8 would have to spit up and help each other get further into the dungeon. When they get to the final room, or certain points in the dungeon, the party comes together to fight bigger battles.

The pros: Elements of Strategy, more than just walking through a place, killing things.

The cons: Relying on people you can't see on the other side of the dungeon. This stresses communication.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please, I'd like to hear more thoughts on raid dungeon puzzles I'll try to put your idea on the main post with credit to you.


Random Disclaimerrr :] (I currently do not play FFXIV. I own a copy but my computer isn't good enough to run it. Please, stay rational folks, I may not be a player but I suppose everyone is allowed input right?)

- Sincerely
Rai Raymont of Trabia

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they had something like that in EQ2 where the party was split up and you had to find your way out by breaking or climbing over objects awhile fighting mobs. Had alot of team effert to reach the middle where you got out. (was more of a raid quest) to progress to raid content. So you had to do dungeons to even be able to do raids. Get keys etc to get into raids. (get access). In a way that was fun as raid content was more of a guild thing so everyone had to work together to get access to the area and unlock to see whats behind the doors.

I wouldnt mind some puzzles to get away from the hack and slash grind and have something interesting with interaction with the game in some way other then beating up mobs or running around picking up notes on the ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viion

Sad thing is everyone will just pick the best path and that feature be made redundant.

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Thats why I thought spitting up would be a good idea, it avoids that redundancy by making the party HAVE to take all paths.

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Originally Posted by Swev

"breaking or climbing over objects"

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This really stood out to me from what you said.
Did you mean that like literally, because breaking inanimate things to progress sounds like an interesting concept too.
Also climbing over things would be cool *if* jump feature is eventually add.

Assault had that break feature, some walls you needed those Wajaums or w/e to do Spitfire or something like it and you had to have them face wall and they'd break them down, and ofc you had to split up.

Ahh i loved assault!

no, more like you found a bomb and used it to break the wall. You had to be careful where you placed the bomb as some walls didnt break. (had to pay attention to detail)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viion

Assault had that break feature, some walls you needed those Wajaums or w/e to do Spitfire or something like it and you had to have them face wall and they'd break them down, and ofc you had to split up.

Ahh i loved assault!

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Man I wish I would have gotten to some real dungeon content in XI, havent got that far... yet...
But it seems to me some of ya'll like how that was handled in XI, would you prefer it fine-tuned at all?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Swev

no, more like you found a bomb and used it to break the wall. You had to be careful where you placed the bomb as some walls didnt break. (had to pay attention to detail)

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Ahh even better than hack/slash all the walls! lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Man I wish I would have gotten to some real dungeon content in XI, havent got that far... yet...
But it seems to me some of ya'll like how that was handled in XI, would you prefer it fine-tuned at all?

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not sure what you mean?

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Originally Posted by Swev

not sure what you mean?

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Hmmm. Well i guess I mean what would you change at all, like how your character interacts.
Alot of the time, in XI (in puzzles i did do) you just touch something and its like okay... that opens that wall.
like in phomonia aqueducts where you have to pull the switch for the corresponding day, it was a little
awkward having to pull them at the same time as another player, and the candles didnt really have quick elemental differentiation
maybe if you pull a candle switch it might pull down too?

I dunno just a little bit of speculation on that. The little details make up the greater picture you know what I mean?

Edit: I'm not all that picky about it, just curious.

I pray they have dungeon puzzles like in Zelda. I'm sure you guys played Zelda. Anyone who loves the ff games probably loves zelda as well. Well anyways I'd like to see us pushing crates and stuff like that to get them in a certain pecision or however its spelled just ot open one door etc. Its something almost no mmo does, but players always ALWAYS want it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greencactaur

I pray they have dungeon puzzles like in Zelda. I'm sure you guys played Zelda. Anyone who loves the ff games probably loves zelda as well. Well anyways I'd like to see us pushing crates and stuff like that to get them in a certain pecision or however its spelled just ot open one door etc. Its something almost no mmo does, but players always ALWAYS want it.

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LOVE ZELDA... its slightly my basis for this thread xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Hmmm. Well i guess I mean what would you change at all, like how your character interacts.
Alot of the time, in XI (in puzzles i did do) you just touch something and its like okay... that opens that wall.
like in phomonia aqueducts where you have to pull the switch for the corresponding day, it was a little
awkward having to pull them at the same time as another player, and the candles didnt really have quick elemental differentiation
maybe if you pull a candle switch it might pull down too?

I dunno just a little bit of speculation on that. The little details make up the greater picture you know what I mean?

Edit: I'm not all that picky about it, just curious.

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I wouldnt really change anything but add more interesting things. Such as climbing a tree or running away from big boulders chasing after you or jumping over blocks to a switch or swimming under water to get treasure or disable a trap by a door. Things that make it so you dont just go in fight mobs but actully see the area your at abit and take a good hard look of your surroundings. Alot of solo games have this and lacks it in MMO's. Would be fun to have a group of people doing stuff like this. Even boss fights where someone has to run around lets say killing a flame on the wall so the boss's power level is not as high as if it were on. Dungeons in mobs is just one of the core things that make it a dungeon. The deeper you get into a dungeon the more dangerous it should get as you get to the end of it where the *treasure awaits*. Not just random NMs in a dungeon with a timer for spawn rate. I think thats getting old and people need to think more to earn their goods and work together for their RARE items.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Man I wish I would have gotten to some real dungeon content in XI, havent got that far... yet...
But it seems to me some of ya'll like how that was handled in XI, would you prefer it fine-tuned at all?

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Fine tuned in various ways, like multiple ways to break a wall, instead of relying on an enemy's tp move to fly over your head and shatter it lol. Like dragging a Bomb enemy near it and forcing it to self destruct, like you can with Djinn mobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Fine tuned in various ways, like multiple ways to break a wall, instead of relying on an enemy's tp move to fly over your head and shatter it lol. Like dragging a Bomb enemy near it and forcing it to self destruct, like you can with Djinn mobs.

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I didn't quite understand all of that, but would be meaning something along the lines of
-> Bomb mobs and breakable wall in the area
-> Bring Bomb mob over to wall
-> Have it self destruct on the wall
??? i was slightly confused. I think this is what you mean?

Edit: ohh that is what you mean :P

MMO's and puzzles tend to conflict because one involves constant repetition and the other involves new challenges every time.

You could make puzzles that are random, but unless they are incredibly addicting, they will just become annoyances very easily. Since players will most likely engage in raids and dungeons for bigger and better equipment, a puzzle with no reward besides "hey, you get to move on" is the last thing thing you'll want to deal with.

Check my topic:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uture-dungeons

We've got some input already (well sort of) from a dev community rep:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Very clever ideas gang! We will be implementing a wide variety of challenges for all of you to enjoy. :)

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So not to take away from this thread, but since mine has been "marked", might be a good idea to post ideas there as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Check my topic:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uture-dungeons

We've got some input already (well sort of) from a dev community rep:



So not to take away from this thread, but since mine has been "marked", might be a good idea to post ideas there as well.

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No worries, someone already told me and I linked you on the OP ^^

As even mentioned by YoshiP, we are in the social networking internet era. Information is instantaneous. Puzzles are going to be done and not worth the time in conceptualization.

Stopping thinking it like a 40hrs single player game.

Though we could put a few creative twists...and that's sadly something WoW people are known for...hard to make it more original when it's been done better faster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

No worries, someone already told me and I linked you on the OP ^^

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Oh cool, sorry about that then. I need to stop leaving reply posts in the submit section for so long :p Either way, I think they should bring back the weight plate puzzles. That kind of encourages race diversity on top of the encouraged class/job diversity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

As even mentioned by YoshiP, we are in the social networking internet era. Information is instantaneous. Puzzles are going to be done and not worth the time in conceptualization.

Stopping thinking it like a 40hrs single player game.

Though we could put a few creative twists...and that's sadly something WoW people are known for...hard to make it more original when it's been done better faster.

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:/ 40 hour single player game? Zelda was only an inspiration, I know full well this is an MMO
Creative twists are great, and thats all I'm really poking at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Oh cool, sorry about that then. I need to stop leaving reply posts in the submit section for so long :p Either way, I think they should bring back the weight plate puzzles. That kind of encourages race diversity on top of the encouraged class/job diversity.

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lawlz, its all good :]