I do NOT want fights to be nerfed. I just want mechanics to work reliably.

There are times when I play this game where I get incredibly frustrated with mechanics not working as intended. I see people die and/or hindered due to no real fault of their own.

To be clear, I am not talking about lag/latency, although that is a topic worthy of its own discussion. I am referring to mechanics not working even if you have done something way ahead of time.

Almost all of these fights are salvageable even with these odd glitches, but it's still super annoying when it happens.

Here are a few examples I can think of off the top of my head:

Garuda (all modes): whenever she jumps, there is a chance that someone in your party won't see her when she lands again. It's a known bug and has been happening since people were working on Garuda hard (and possibly story mode?). She will reappear after she jumps/lands a second time.

Garuda (extreme): occasionally, the spiny plume bubble will not work as intended. A party member will be in the bubble way ahead of time (and the entire group will SEE that person in the bubble way ahead of time, just as long as anyone else), yet they die as if they took unmitigated damage -- basically, the game never registered that they were in the bubble despite the fact that they were. At first, my group thought this 'glitch' was more likely to happen if a scholar dropped soil on top of the bubble, but then it happened when there was no soil on the ground, killing that theory.

Titan (all): people have been complaining about getting hit by landslide due to latency for a long time. That is not what I am referring to. What is really frustrating is if you get hit by it when you were never in the trajectory, neither before nor after it triggers. I've personally watched people get hit off who I never saw in the line of it. My guess is the radius is slightly higher than the visual cue, or character positioning is not 100% accurate in this fight.

Titan (extreme only, I think): sometimes, landslide and bombs will not trigger at the time they usually do, or Titan will completely skip landslide in his rotation. This is survivable, but just plain weird. I'm not talking about the heart phase, where I know his abilities can trigger at odd times if the heart is almost dead.

Turn 5 (Twintania): on rare occasions, icons marking conflag and fireball will not appear on a player's screen -- or on really rare occasions, anyone's screen. There was one time my group was fighting Twin, many weeks after we conquered conflag phase (it's very predictable). After the first fireball, we all moved and waited for the conflag icon that was sure to come next... but... it never came. We all stood there dumbfounded, and just as one of us said in voicechat 'where is conflag?', it dropped on a random person and trapped their group of people. Upon discussion, not one of us saw it. As far as I have experienced, this issue (icons not appearing) does not happen in any other part of the fight -- just conflags.

Can you think of any more examples? These are just the ones that I could think of off the top of my head.

EDIT: I've added some things mentioned by others. Also, to be clear... in case someone didn't actually read the title: I am 100% okay with the difficulty of the fights. I just want the mechanics to be less buggy.

Hate list bug (mentioned scenarios: Ultima + Bone Dragon in CT): on some fights, the monster will attack people who are NOT listed as top of the hate list. This makes it very difficult to 'watch your hate' if you can't see the aggro bar properly. I'll put this as a 'possible' bug because it may be part of the boss mechanics to attack a random person.

I just want to thank you for compounding this together. As a healer, I've had the Garuda problem way to often to count, and its livable for me, but I could imagine for dd's and tanks this is horrid. My boyfriend plays a tank, and one day he couldn't see garuda so he had to pass it off to our OT who wasn't really that great :/

I'd like to add I've never had teh titan problem where I'm not it the landslide but I still get hit, I've had the latency problem though, I just learned to run extra out of it. If i had the problem you're referring to, I'd be flipping out lol.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I'd like to add I've never had teh titan problem where I'm not it the landslide but I still get hit, I've had the latency problem though, I just learned to run extra out of it. If i had the problem you're referring to, I'd be flipping out lol.

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I've never had the problem, but I've seen other people die when they were never in it on my screen. If I had to guess, they are too close to the edge of it, and the radius for the ability is larger than the actual animation. Most people do 'keep running' though. A trick to force your positioning to update is to start casting something or using an ability the second you get out. The cast doesn't even have to go off... it just forces the game to update where you are, and you are less likely to get hit by things. It's a lifesaver for plumes if your connection is not that great.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Garuda (extreme): occasionally, the spiny plume bubble will not work as intended. A party member will be in the bubble way ahead of time (and the entire group will SEE that person in the bubble way ahead of time, just as long as anyone else), yet they die as if they took unmitigated damage -- basically, the game never registered that they were in the bubble despite the fact that they were. At first, my group thought this 'glitch' was more likely to happen if a scholar dropped soil on top of the bubble, but then it happened when there was no soil on the ground, killing that theory.

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Yes. A lot of times and it's annoying.

i dont get titan problem while im about 2 inches from landslide blue lines

so i dont think landslides have bigger radius but latency problems yea

Weight of the land is more of a problem than landslide for me. If you don't start moving the exact milisecond it appears you get hit, and with the horrid lag titan hm has 100% of the time it's easy to see why some people still don't have relics.

@Ryuko
sorry to be off topic but wanted to say I like your hat o-o

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Originally Posted by Shirana

@Ryuko
sorry to be off topic but wanted to say I like your hat o-o

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Thank you! It's the summoner horn; you can buy it with mythology tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Thank you! It's the summoner horn; you can buy it with mythology tomestones.

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good thing I'm already working on a summoner 8D

edit: also thanks for the info and have fun!

"grr I don't want fights to be nerfed because everyone must be super pro at this game like me because older people, people with terrible latency and those without time to practice don't exist!1111one"


I've played the same class as my friend who claims that her character is "squishy" and has "low HP" which is why she dies.
When I played the exact same dungeons that she did in similar gear, I didn't get hurt or die.
This is not mechanics, this is the person, let those who cannot "learn mechanics" be able to try all content in the game.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

"grr I don't want fights to be nerfed because everyone must be super pro at this game like me because older people, people with terrible latency and those without time to practice don't exist!1111one"


I've played the same class as my friend who claims that her character is "squishy" and has "low HP" which is why she dies.
When I played the exact same dungeons that she did in similar gear, I didn't get hurt or die.
This is not mechanics, this is the person, let those who cannot "learn mechanics" be able to try all content in the game.

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Somehow I feel like you didn't read my thread. :(

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Somehow I feel like you didn't read my thread. :(

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*rereads again cause i'm having a brain fart*

The only legitimate bug is the disappearing Garuda. This has been around since the beginning. We've had many tanks who would just..not see her after a certain point almost always causing a wipe. This I'd like to see them fix. I've never encountered any of the titan bugs you've mentioned though.

Soso the only legitmiate bug is Garuda?
Let me tell you about a weird Titan EX encounter.
I am maintank, not in the reach of Landslide, never even a microsecond in it.
Landslide pushes me of the field where I was tanking. How?
Titan EX Landslide time, the lines never touch me neither another member of the group the go by left and right of us. Landslide BOOM hits both of us.
Fight goes a bit on, people try to fight on without us two, double GAOL time ... the guy who got pushed of was in the second gaol. Even more HOW.
From time to time the maintank gets a Lay of Land puddle under him, with all being alive and no DD ever being close to the tank, just really dead center under the tank. And no the tank also didnt just get replaced.

I on the other hand never witnessed the Garuda invisible bug yet. But the one where the spiny would decide not to protect certain members happened.

Ultima. Sometimes, while the hate indicator says it has maintank in tarket Party list also says maintank is on hatelist top, it roams around slapping on everything but the maintank. This happend several times now.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Ultima. Sometimes, while the hate indicator says it has maintank in tarket Party list also says maintank is on hatelist top, it roams around slapping on everything but the maintank. This happend several times now.

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I see that happening with other bosses too, like the Bone Dragon in Crystal Tower. I wonder if that's part of their AI, to attack random people sometimes.

Well to do it SOMETIMES yes, a lot of bosses do. But only roaming around attacking anything but the tank is weird.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

I see that happening with other bosses too, like the Bone Dragon in Crystal Tower. I wonder if that's part of their AI, to attack random people sometimes.

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This also happens with quite a few dungeon bosses, most notably the Golem in the Sunken Temple. If the aggro list still has the tank in the nr. 1 spot, you can assume it is a gameplay mechanic most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

*rereads again cause i'm having a brain fart*

The only legitimate bug is the disappearing Garuda. This has been around since the beginning. We've had many tanks who would just..not see her after a certain point almost always causing a wipe. This I'd like to see them fix. I've never encountered any of the titan bugs you've mentioned though.

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I didn't have anecdotal evidence of it so it doesn't exist. That isn't logic, that's just ignorance. I have the titan latency, and I've had the garuda bubble thing. Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others. I know people with top of the line computers who live on the East Coast closer to the server (I'm west) and still have these issues.

Fixing a problem in the game starts with anecdotal evidence of those who have had it, not with naysayers, if you didn't have it, why chime it to say it doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I didn't have anecdotal evidence of it so it doesn't exist. That isn't logic, that's just ignorance. I have the titan latency, and I've had the garuda bubble thing. Just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others. Fixing a problem in the game starts with anecdotal evidence of those who have had it, not with naysayers, if you didn't have it, why chime it to say it doesn't exist.

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...onreaction.gif
Saying that I've never encountered it doesn't mean it "doesn't exist". Don't get your panties in a bunch.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Well to do it SOMETIMES yes, a lot of bosses do. But only roaming around attacking anything but the tank is weird.

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Originally Posted by Myran

This also happens with quite a few dungeon bosses, most notably the Golem in the Sunken Temple. If the aggro list still has the tank in the nr. 1 spot, you can assume it is a gameplay mechanic most of the time.

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And sometimes is really dangerous. Like my previous example, I saw Bone Dragon turning back and AoE the whole alliance while I had the aggro of it. Or just running and not coming back after a while.

I've certainly had landslide push me off while I was clearly not in it but was very very close to it... so the ability certainly has a bit wider area than the graphics - so I quickly learned to be a few steps away not "just out of it".

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

Saying that I've never encountered it doesn't mean it "doesn't exist". Don't get your panties in a bunch.

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sure sounds like it here.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

The only legitimate bug is the disappearing Garuda. I've never encountered any of the titan bugs you've mentioned

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

And sometimes is really dangerous. Like my previous example, I saw Bone Dragon turning back and AoE the whole alliance while I had the aggro of it. Or just running and not coming back after a while.

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Bone Dragon has his AoE that he throws at random people. I believe if you pacify him with Shield Swipe he just replaces that AoE with an auto-attack, and has to run to the person to do so.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

"grr I don't want fights to be nerfed because everyone must be super pro at this game like me because older people, people with terrible latency and those without time to practice don't exist!1111one"


I've played the same class as my friend who claims that her character is "squishy" and has "low HP" which is why she dies.
When I played the exact same dungeons that she did in similar gear, I didn't get hurt or die.
This is not mechanics, this is the person, let those who cannot "learn mechanics" be able to try all content in the game.

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There is the human aspect of it but, I would have to agree with Ryuko.

There have been times in fights, Grauda EX specifically, that I was well out of the range of the "indicators" but still end up getting hit by it. There was even a time where I and a few other casters (BLM, WHM, SCH) were most definitely inside the bubble, but ended up dying to The Reconing. I pride myself on being able to move out of the way and not take unnecessary damage. But to get hit when you are clear out of the danger zone is a bit ridiculous. My boyfriend, who plays a tank, also has the same issues. He is a MMO veteran, and grumbles quite a lot about the delays.

So I do wish that they would look at the delays as it would make the game much more enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Turn 5 (Twintania): on rare occasions, icons marking conflag and fireball will not appear on a player's screen -- or on really rare occasions, anyone's screen. There was one time my group was fighting Twin, many weeks after we conquered conflag phase (it's very predictable). After the first fireball, we all moved and waited for the conflag icon that was sure to come next... but... it never came. We all stood there dumbfounded, and just as one of us said in voicechat 'where is conflag?', it dropped on a random person and trapped their group of people. Upon discussion, not one of us saw it. As far as I have experienced, this issue (icons not appearing) does not happen in any other part of the fight -- just conflags.

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This I've saw it happened, quite annoying... got told to do better, but hard to see if those icons appears for a split sec and boom... :/

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Originally Posted by Feyniphia

This I've saw it happened, quite annoying... got told to do better, but hard to see if those icons appears for a split sec and boom... :/

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That's another thing I didn't mention -- sometimes the icon WILL appear, but super late... as in, you don't have time to move at all. The first time I was trying Twin, I couldn't even take a step by the time I saw conflag, and neither could anyone else. It happened a few times before we just decided to reenter and everything was fine. Of course, this was months ago so I didn't list it because I wasn't sure if that particular problem was addressed or not.

As far as others -- I will add the "hate list is not 100% accurate" to the list, although I will point out that some mobs have weird mechanics with hate... such as the first 'phase' of storyline Ultima where he just randomly attacks anyone who takes any actions. I'll put the hate thing down as a possible issue.

Titan's mechanics work reliably, Ifrit's mechanics do not. But that is the personality of the primals there. Earth is reliable, whereas fire is unpredictable.

The mechanics do work properly, I think you think they do not because you are waiting to move. On Titan especially, you wait for the Weights to spawn, you are thinking about them spawning so you think about if they are late or not.

If the mechanics were changed they would be made too easy, you would no longer have to think about any of them because they wouldn't be hard to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Titan's mechanics work reliably, Ifrit's mechanics do not. But that is the personality of the primals there. Earth is reliable, whereas fire is unpredictable.

The mechanics do work properly, I think you think they do not because you are waiting to move. On Titan especially, you wait for the Weights to spawn, you are thinking about them spawning so you think about if they are late or not.

If the mechanics were changed they would be made too easy, you would no longer have to think about any of them because they wouldn't be hard to avoid.

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I really wish people would read my threads before responding.

Again, I'm not talking about lag. I very rarely lag and not once did I mention weights as being buggy... because they are not. If you get hit by weights, either you are lagging or your system is not showing them right away -- graphical lag, I suppose. I only get hit by weights once in a blue moon, and that's because I'm fortunate enough to have a good connection. The issues I am mentioning with Titan are ones others have attested to in this thread... a maintank getting hit by landslide despite never being near it, for example. In extreme, sometimes bombs/landslides do not come at the right timing... and the only reason you can notice this is because of how scripted the fight is, and how most people will have the fight memorized by the time they beat it reliably.

I'm not asking for the mechanics to be changed. I just want them to work properly. For example, don't at all change how spiny bubble works in Garuda Extreme... just make sure it registers everyone who is IN the bubble long before the AoE triggers.

Ifrit is not 'unreliable'... his mechanics in Extreme are scripted very well. The dps will always know when eruptions are coming because they happen immediately after most Inferno Howls (exception being the first one after he lands following Inferno). Plumes only happen after he lands, following Inferno Breath (or whatever it is called). The only 'random' factor is how many times he'll spam breath on the tanks, but using a triangle (or V) formation, this is easy to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

That's another thing I didn't mention -- sometimes the icon WILL appear, but super late... as in, you don't have time to move at all.

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I've gotta chime in here about this specific issue. First, my team has been farming Twin since prior to 2.1; we have put in countless hours with this boss, we have cleared this boss, and I know what I'm talking about when it comes to this boss.

That having been said, this specific issue (icons not appearing/appearing at improper times) can happen. However, I have only ever seen it occur a handful of times, and it is very obvious when it does. That is to say, everyone in your group will notice it, regardless of what they were focusing on in their role up to that point.

If it isn't immediately apparent to every person of your group, then that wasn't what actually happened. Either you lagged, were inattentive, need more practice, need to alter settings/hardware, or simply aren't that skilled of a player. Not all of these are strict negatives, but the point is that there are numerous things that really need to be ruled out before someone throws up their hands and cries "bug!".

tl;dr--Conflag icon bug can occur, but it is rare.

Have to confess, Garuda's disappearing act has really gotten me down. I would love to tackle the extreme mode primals, but as a tank I feel gimp when I can't see Garuda half the time. I would rather not put my parties through that and I can't unlock the other Primals without first beating her.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Titan (extreme only, I think): sometimes, landslide and bombs will not trigger at the time they usually do, or Titan will completely skip landslide in his rotation. This is survivable, but just plain weird. I'm not talking about the heart phase, where I know his abilities can trigger at odd times if the heart is almost dead.

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Yes, I have run Titan EX a lot and sometimes he will Bombs > Tumult > Plumes right after another during heart phase-- just before Earthen Fury and it's absolute hell to heal through because you just can't stand still long enough to get a heal off. Swift cast > Medica only does so much and the tumults alone can be enough to kill a dps. It's a frantic race if everyone does survive to heal everyone up to full before Earthen Fury hits just do to it all over again after.

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Originally Posted by Sigred

tl;dr--Conflag icon bug can occur, but it is rare.

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I agree that it's rare. Of all the times I've done Twintania (we were able to master conflag phase pretty quickly), I've only seen it happen a handful of times... and there's only been one instance where *no one* saw the icon appear at all, never, at any point... not even late.

The thing that confuses me is I've never seen this glitch occur with any other icon in the fight, whether it be divebombs or orbs.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

Have to confess, Garuda's disappearing act has really gotten me down. I would love to tackle the extreme mode primals, but as a tank I feel gimp when I can't see Garuda half the time. I would rather not put my parties through that and I can't unlock the other Primals without first beating her.

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Don't let it get you down too much. I don't know if there is any specific factor that makes you more or less susceptible to this issue, but I've only PERSONALLY witnessed it a few times in all my many runs of doing Garuda hard and extreme.

Half the stuff you are talking about is in fact latency/lag. If another player appears to you to be out of aoe/safe from whatever but they still get hit it is a lag/latency issue. I have never seen titan EM drop an ability like landslide out of his rotation. What you might be referring to is how some phases get shortened/lengthened causing confusion as a result of dps differences between groups you are running it in. I've never seen markers not show up conflags. Sometimes it looks like they didn't show up on a distant player due to all the special effects that are going (you could try turning off other player effects).

The garuda not appearing is definitely an issue and seems to happen most often for ps3 players.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

I've certainly had landslide push me off while I was clearly not in it but was very very close to it... so the ability certainly has a bit wider area than the graphics - so I quickly learned to be a few steps away not "just out of it".

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The fact that you have to work around it is terrible. :(

Also people still do the "I didnt happen to me, therefore it doesn't exist" thing?

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

Also people still do the "I didnt happen to me, therefore it doesn't exist" thing?

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Apparently. This is why I point out that this is not latency/lag related -- just things not working correctly. I am usually not affected by these issues, but I know they still happen. There are workarounds for most of them... or at least the fight is still doable even if someone is affected by a bug once in a blue moon. The most annoying, for me, is the Garuda spiny thing. I can't tell you how often I see that happen to someone... and if they can dodge everything in Titan Ex like a pro, there is no reason they can't get in the spiny bubble in time. If your OT gets the spiny sort of low before Garuda jumps, you have several seconds to stand in the bubble before she even reappears and starts casting her AoE.

If you see someone 'inside' the bubble ahead of time, that means the server ALSO knows they are inside something ahead of time. It's the server that notifies you of other characters' positions, so if it is showing someone in the bubble way ahead of when the cast finishes and they STILL take unmitigated damage, it's a bug... not latency. The only time I will agree that latency is the culprit is if the person runs in RIGHT as the cast goes off. That's a little iffy.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

I have never seen titan EM drop an ability like landslide out of his rotation.

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He doesn't throw it out of rotation. Either the timing of bombs/landslide is off, or he skips landslide completely. He'll never *add* moves, just remove them... and I've ONLY seen him 'remove' landslide. It's a rare bug, and out of weeks of farming... I can probably say I've only seen it happen three times. I've heard others complain about the same issue, though.

I can confirm from own experience that the conflag bug is lag. It just happens that when it appears you have a bad ping to the server and on your machine it only shows when he's finished casting it.


As for the missing landslides in Titan, usually it's because the person targeted is gone or dead. Landslide actually works by targeting one of your party members, so if it actually happens when everyone is alive then perhaps titan has some line of sight issue.. which is amazing! I want to dodge landslides that way >_>

As most have said, the genuine bug which I've encountered myself as a healer is the garuda disappearing bug. Happens so many times on garuda HM for me, like 4-5 times in total.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Don't let it get you down too much. I don't know if there is any specific factor that makes you more or less susceptible to this issue, but I've only PERSONALLY witnessed it a few times in all my many runs of doing Garuda hard and extreme.

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Sad to say, its happened to me at least once every time I've gone in, which is maybe a dozen different parties now. Sometimes it seems to clear up after the first attempt, other times its a constant feature of the fight. My plan now is to gear my alt class, a dragoon, up enough to try and take her on. Maybe it'll have less of an impact if I'm on a damage dealer.

MomoOG may be right that it happens most often to PS3 players, as that's what I'm currently gaming on.