[dev1073] Automatic point distribution

I say no. No no no no to this.
That's one of the better features of FFXIV to be honest. Every game treat players like idiots who doesn't know what they want to with their own character. Really..

Only thing that is need are ingame tooltips that exaplain on mouse over what attribute do. I'm sure from this point everyone will be able to figure out what they want to do with their character.

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Originally Posted by iniside

I say no. No no no no to this.
That's one of the better features of FFXIV to be honest. Every game treat players like idiots who doesn't know what they want to with their own character. Really..

Only thing that is need are ingame tooltips that exaplain on mouse over what attribute do. I'm sure from this point everyone will be able to figure out what they want to do with their character.

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Just because they place our points doesn't mean anything. people still need to gear right.

So you say we have to end up with another game, that by collecting items we actually devlop character? I don't say no. That happens to every game. But that doesn't mean you ability to better customize character should be taken away. If I want to maked gimped character with 999int and everything other at default.. I want to do so!.

Did they not recently say that the attribute allotment system would now be a combination of set points and a small adjustable portion, based on the class rank (rather than physical level)?

I am totally in favour of this for a number of reasons. Having complete control caused me a lot of problems as a tank. In battles where monsters primarily use magic attacks, like Dodore, it's desirable to have high MND for the magic defense. In other encounters with physical attacks, more VIT heavy builds would be favourable. While the monsters currently ingame are fairly easy, I personally do not want to have to constantly adjust my build (from scratch) to optimize as more difficult monsters and encounters are introduced.

Now, this isn't just a tank problem. Mages would presumably do this while balancing total MP, magic accuracy, and magic attack as particular tasks would stress more of one than the other. Same for melee accuracy, attack, and especially VIT/MND if they are fighting a monster that deals AoE phsyical/magic damage, requiring they increase their survivability.

I'm hopeful the combination system allows players to have a little freedom with these stats but still locks us down enough that we don't have to worry about completely re-building our attributes depending on the activity we plan on doing. I personally found it a bit stressful to constantly be optimizing. This will only be magnified as the efficacy of each attribute is increased (according to the producer).

One thing that they have to keep in mind is that they don't run into the problem that Diablo II had, where basically there was only just a few "optimal" stat allocations paths, and if you were to do anything else, you'd be gimping your character.

This is why they will do auto-stat placement in Diablo III.

As long as FF14 can circumvent this problem, I'm fine with it. Otherwise, there's really no point in self-customizable stats anyway as everyone is just going to follow the optimal build stat placement anyway.

I'm sooo glad they're removing the physical levels. I like to play EVERY class, so it would be a huge PITA to reallocate stats every time i switched. I just have them all roughly even at this point.

Finally, I can have a stat advantage when i switch classes!! This makes the game so much easier and streamlined, and will make each of my classes more effective and specialized at what they do.

And, unless the OP's native language is not english, he is clearly a troll.

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Originally Posted by KalaKenshu

I'm sooo glad they're removing the physical levels. I like to play EVERY class, so it would be a huge PITA to reallocate stats every time i switched.

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This so much. I like how in online FF, you can have one character do anything. Now setting up one whole stat set for one play type and needing to wait forever to reallocate points for another style because they don't refund all at once is a large PITA.

My only question with this new system is how will element affinities work under the growth style?

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Originally Posted by KalaKenshu

I'm sooo glad they're removing the physical levels. I like to play EVERY class, so it would be a huge PITA to reallocate stats every time i switched. I just have them all roughly even at this point.

Finally, I can have a stat advantage when i switch classes!! This makes the game so much easier and streamlined, and will make each of my classes more effective and specialized at what they do.
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I do not quite follow. How can you have a stat advantage if they are removing Physical Level?
Your class will have the stats based on the class level, so no advantage there.

If they had kept Physical Level but implemented a stat profile per class, so we could distribute stats however we saw fit for each of out classes, then you could have an advantage, but sadly that is not the way it went.

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Originally Posted by iniside

I say no. No no no no to this.
That's one of the better features of FFXIV to be honest. Every game treat players like idiots who doesn't know what they want to with their own character. Really...

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Um have you played this game or any MMO ever? There is no point in customization. Everyone will eventually find and use the agree optimal set up.

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Originally Posted by iniside

I say no. No no no no to this.
That's one of the better features of FFXIV to be honest. Every game treat players like idiots who doesn't know what they want to with their own character. Really..

Only thing that is need are ingame tooltips that exaplain on mouse over what attribute do. I'm sure from this point everyone will be able to figure out what they want to do with their character.

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That was a major problem with the old system was that they didn't explain what the caps were but there is a post somewhere talking about what each stat does for you in the ask the devs section i think. So now we get a sort of more rigid system but with the ability to still set some points, that mean more than they used to, up ourselves. you will have more comfort knowing that you aren't wasting as many if any points now though.

I still don't agree. But i have sevral ideas to please both sides:
1) if you want automatic stat distribution - have it. If I want to spend my stats point manually i want to do so. We are both happy. You have optimal way, I have the way i wanted.
2) Give stats and character templates and full respec. You can save sevral stat distribution templates and switch on them anytime you are out of combat. With full respec you can experiment with stats as many times you want.

Stats don't feel as though they have a major impact in our abilities. Aside from VIT and MND, it's difficult to notice the impact of stats on us.

With that said, I would like to see a combination of the two (which I think SE is doing in some form or another).

Stat growth based on discipline rank, ensuring a minimal level of effectiveness. Plus the allocating of stats.

As much as I would like being able to allocate stats per class, I don't feel this is a good design move. Right now, we have to decide in advance what we plan on doing this evening and the next. In this system, players may stick with a set of stats more suited to their focus classes and not have that wait time.

Where if someone wants to be optimal for given situations or likes being optimal for each class, then they would have to wait unless they're willing to have more balanced stats to suit their multi-class playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Loth

I do not quite follow. How can you have a stat advantage if they are removing Physical Level?
Your class will have the stats based on the class level, so no advantage there.

If they had kept Physical Level but implemented a stat profile per class, so we could distribute stats however we saw fit for each of out classes, then you could have an advantage, but sadly that is not the way it went.

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Currently, if I wanted to spec for fishing I would put all my points in DEX and PIE. But then when I want to play my DoW classes, I would either have to respec all my points, or just stay with the inherent disadvantage of low stats in everything except DEX and PIE.

Now that they will distribute the points, for the most part, automatically, I will not have to switch my points to play another class. They will be appropriately distributed to maximize whichever class's effectiveness I choose to play.

I will have an advantage with this change, because I am disadvantaged now putting all my points in one or two stats to maximize a class. If I switch classes, I am majorly disadvantaged. With the changes, my stats will automatically be optimized; thus an advantage.

waaaaait a minute, i thought they said in more than one place that they are keeping stat customization for every time you rank up once PL is gone......

If I remember well they also said that they would significantly reduce the overall number of attribute points, hence giving a greater meaning to the remaining points themselves. In this perspective having a limited number of point to allocate depending on the rank could make as much a difference as the current system where points don't mean so much, and where past some levels you need to spend 2 or 3 points to raise 1 attribute.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

One thing that they have to keep in mind is that they don't run into the problem that Diablo II had, where basically there was only just a few "optimal" stat allocations paths, and if you were to do anything else, you'd be gimping your character.

This is why they will do auto-stat placement in Diablo III.

As long as FF14 can circumvent this problem, I'm fine with it. Otherwise, there's really no point in self-customizable stats anyway as everyone is just going to follow the optimal build stat placement anyway.

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I have yet to see any game with a player allocated stat system with more than a few optimal stat paths. I just don't think it's possible. It might sound possible on paper, but in practice is a very different thing.

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Originally Posted by northernsky

If I remember well they also said that they would significantly reduce the overall number of attribute points, hence giving a greater meaning to the remaining points themselves. In this perspective having a limited number of point to allocate depending on the rank could make as much a difference as the current system where points don't mean so much, and where past some levels you need to spend 2 or 3 points to raise 1 attribute.

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thank you.
this is exactly what i read and the meaning i got from it.
they arent getting rid of point allocation, theyre making them less points you can allocate upon ranking up and making those points count more.

i swear some people just jump the gun too quickly when posting.

You cant build a character in a MMO with 999 anything. It would throw off the balance of the entire party. If you were an Archer with 999 STR then one shot and you would pull the mob off the tank and instantly die because your other stats are at base. I like the idea of making your character minimally customized. Like having an amount of points that automatically assign to your character on level, then you have the choice for 3 or 4 points to a stat. Making a more accurate Lancer over a powerful lancer, things like that.

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Originally Posted by iniside

I still don't agree. But i have sevral ideas to please both sides:
1) if you want automatic stat distribution - have it. If I want to spend my stats point manually i want to do so. We are both happy. You have optimal way, I have the way i wanted.

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This is what they've said they're doing.

I disagree with OP.

I think you should be able to put the points for each job the way you want them .

the way i understood it, they would do an automatic allocation, which you could then alter, as in for people who have no idea they can just follow the reccomended path, for people who want to specialize they can follow a different path. I dont think the game needs static allocations, probably because different classes have some very different skill sets. like con could have any mix of piety int and mind and vit depending on playstyle, thaum is similar, pug going heavy vit or dex depending on your chosen focus. I wont even mention more exotic possibilities like making a a drk like build or a rdm like build

one static allocation per class at this point wouldnt make too much sense, i hope my initial read was correct, and it doesnt head that path.

The point of stat allocation isn't for cookie cutter builds, but for different situations. If you know you're going to be doing something easy as a tank and don't need that much vit, you can allocate it to str and dex etc. If you're a caster and you're out soloing, you might want to put a bit more into vit vs. int to take more of a beating. It's things like that where stat allocation is useful.

Just want to re-post something that we stated a few weeks ago regarding the allocation of points.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey everyone, I know you're all excited to see how allocating stats will change in the future! While we can't give away too many specific details, we did confirm with the team that on class rank up the process of allocating points will still be controlled by the player.

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Reading is hard for some

To be fair, as Bay said that post was a couple weeks ago, and not everyone reads the forums every day.

It's not the reading... it's the inevitable kneejerk reaction before (and if ever) comprehension sets in :P

Can't wait for the next thread about this in a couple days ^-^

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

To be fair, as Bay said that post was a couple weeks ago, and not everyone reads the forums every day.

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Maybe so, but the dev tracker doesnt really fill up that fast, so older mod posts stay there for a few days. Wasnt really hard to miss.

Most of the folks that troll the forums assume that every piece of XIV info on the internet is beamed directly to your skull in real time. Because thats a totally reasonable expectation.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Just want to re-post something that we stated a few weeks ago regarding the allocation of points.

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Could you provide a clarification . . . are the stat point pools going to be specific to each class? or will it all be lumped together?

Will my R50 MRD have the same stats as my R14 CON?

Would be really nice to have them separate so we dont have to reallocate our points everytime we change classes.

Sorry if you've answered this, but the wording is still very cryptic.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

One thing that they have to keep in mind is that they don't run into the problem that Diablo II had, where basically there was only just a few "optimal" stat allocations paths, and if you were to do anything else, you'd be gimping your character.

This is why they will do auto-stat placement in Diablo III.

As long as FF14 can circumvent this problem, I'm fine with it. Otherwise, there's really no point in self-customizable stats anyway as everyone is just going to follow the optimal build stat placement anyway.

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1. Although im going to play D3 I bet its mega weak compared to the others.

2. There are different ways of building your character with stats therefore having set stats does not give the option to go another route...... im for setting my own stats.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

[...] Will my R50 MRD have the same stats as my R14 CON? [...]

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They will be separate for each class. It was answered in one or multiple dev posts or producer letters.

Guys firts of all SE has to fix stats... Then we'll can speak about this argument. :)

Not really an argument when they have state that we will be able to allocate still. Pretty much every question in this thread has already been answered by the devs.

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Originally Posted by Val_Rhys

Did they not recently say that the attribute allotment system would now be a combination of set points and a small adjustable portion, based on the class rank (rather than physical level)?

I am totally in favour of this for a number of reasons. Having complete control caused me a lot of problems as a tank. In battles where monsters primarily use magic attacks, like Dodore, it's desirable to have high MND for the magic defense. In other encounters with physical attacks, more VIT heavy builds would be favourable. While the monsters currently ingame are fairly easy, I personally do not want to have to constantly adjust my build (from scratch) to optimize as more difficult monsters and encounters are introduced.

Now, this isn't just a tank problem. Mages would presumably do this while balancing total MP, magic accuracy, and magic attack as particular tasks would stress more of one than the other. Same for melee accuracy, attack, and especially VIT/MND if they are fighting a monster that deals AoE phsyical/magic damage, requiring they increase their survivability.

I'm hopeful the combination system allows players to have a little freedom with these stats but still locks us down enough that we don't have to worry about completely re-building our attributes depending on the activity we plan on doing. I personally found it a bit stressful to constantly be optimizing. This will only be magnified as the efficacy of each attribute is increased (according to the producer).

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THIS THIS THIS ^

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Could you provide a clarification . . . are the stat point pools going to be specific to each class? or will it all be lumped together?

Will my R50 MRD have the same stats as my R14 CON?

Would be really nice to have them separate so we dont have to reallocate our points everytime we change classes.

Sorry if you've answered this, but the wording is still very cryptic.

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Well considering the fact that they're removing physical level, which was character wide and the fact that he said "On class rank up" that means it's going to be on a per class basis. Your class level takes place of what the physical level used to be, for that class.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

They will be separate for each class. It was answered in one or multiple dev posts or producer letters.

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I have been trying to hunt down a link/quote, because thats what I remember as well. Do you by chance have a quote/link?

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Well considering the fact that they're removing physical level, which was character wide and the fact that he said "On class rank up" that means it's going to be on a per class basis. Your class level takes place of what the physical level used to be, for that class.

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Oh I agree, that makes the most sense. Doing it otherwise would be terrible, but I just want to be sure . . .

dosent seems like 1.18 is going to bring that change,