How will this game have "large scale PVP", when the current PVP is a tiny niche?

Queue times seem to be taking longer and longer and longer... the grind for the people just now trying to gear up may have been cut in half with this new patch; but the slow queue times seem to make it take just as long as the previous patch. I'm in the PST timezone and Aether lvl 50 queues past 10 p.m. take anywhere from 10-30+ min lately. (solo)

I'm curious how the devs are going to be able to persuade more of the FF community to participate in these large scale "frontlines" they speak of for future patches. I mean as it is with my data center (Aether) the pvp community has been dying, I see less and less of the familiar faces in the wolve's den. I'm one of 3.. YES 3 people on my server who has reached rank 30, it used to be only 1 for the longest... then 2.. then recently we got our third. It seems alot of the FF community was really put off by the very poor roll out of the pvp system of this game for good.

the same way a myriad of other mmos incentivise its playerbase to grind pvp; gear>achievements>ladder>titles

Who's ready for Wintergrasp 2.0???

I SURE AM

They'll have to reduce the grind. It takes way to long to feel rewarded or successful at PVP when you compare it to how often PvE rewards it's players.

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Originally Posted by ErzaYawgmoth

They'll have to reduce the grind. It takes way to long to feel rewarded or successful at PVP when you compare it to how often PvE rewards it's players.

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Completely disagree. It's nice to finally have something to work for. Might actually feel like I achieved something after hitting R30. Not everyone needs breadcrumbs to follow the road to its end...

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Originally Posted by Luwnax

Completely disagree. It's nice to finally have something to work for. Might actually feel like I achieved something after hitting R30. Not everyone needs breadcrumbs to follow the road to its end...

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I understand what you say and will always be proud of my HM Deathwing Tier armor on my Paladin in WoW. But just like that you are not going to have a lot of players doing anything that feels like a job. They could balance it out. Make it easier to obtain gear collected through currency and then have a set of gear for the truly elite earned through combat.

Before PvP was released I remember Yoshi-P saying something like he expects only about 20% of the community to play PvP, unfortunately this was a massive overestimation, I'd be surprised if 2% of the community were regular PvPers. On my Data Center there are very few PvPers now, and if you're not playing in peak time you can forget getting into a game within any sort of reasonable timeframe, and for me this is the main reason I don't play much PvP. I don't mind the PvP itself, nor would I mind the grind to rank 30 IF I didn't have to spend 90% of the time I have to PvP standing around waiting for a queue to pop. There may also be more of an incentive to grind it up if they added a ranking system, or some sort of competitive element beyond -get to rank 30, faceroll everyone-.

ANYWAY, the way I envision the Frontlines PvP is a map that's always going to be up, no queues or anything just a persistent battlefield, which for me would increase my interest in FFXIV PvP tenfold.

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Originally Posted by ErzaYawgmoth

They'll have to reduce the grind. It takes way to long to feel rewarded or successful at PVP when you compare it to how often PvE rewards it's players.

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I'll be okay with this when matchmaking is introduced. Right now I'm at rank 15, ALMOST halfway through getting my i70 pieces. Playing in level 50 PvP is a joke (unless it's late night when not as many premade rank 30 groups are queuing), so I am basically confined to 30/40 during normal hours. This is the advice most PvPers give to people -- do 30/40 arena until you are at LEAST full i70. When matchmaking is introduced (and hopefully done in a right way), the grind won't feel as horrible because I won't be restricted to 30/40 for the first few weeks of PvPing. I made a mistake in that I didn't PvP very much during the first few weeks, so now it's an endless game of catch up for me. Matchmaking will fix most of my woes. Also, they really have to do something about position updating. They improved latency but PvP is still way too slow. Why are people able to sleep me when I am LoSing them behind a pillar/wall? Furthermore, why am I able to finish a cast long after someone pillars me? It seems silly.

Now I wonder... how will large scale pvp work? In an arena setting, it's pretty easy to burst someone down FAST if you are communicating with your team... and that's with 2 dps, a tank, and a healer. Can you imagine large groups? I feel like it would be too easy to kill someone because there's just way too many people to manage with CC. I could see them having some sort of 'protect your base' game where your group is forced to split up to protect and assault bases. That would kind of work, I suppose.

It is a pretty big grind, I must agree, but I'm okay with the progression. I'm 24 now and yeah... 30 seems far off to me even with the amount of PvP I participate in, which in my opinion, is a lot! However, I'm a person who likes long term goals and to feel rewarded for paying dues. PvP seems to be the answer to that feeling in this game for me atm.

The large scale PvP though I really wish to be similar to World vs World in Guild wars and none of this Free Company vs Free Company stuff. Have an open world zone and you compete for strongholds and base the allegiance on grand company. That would be a lot more fun. Too much of these battles are instance and it would be nice to have something ever changing and ongoing.

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Originally Posted by Irrational

Before PvP was released I remember Yoshi-P saying something like he expects only about 20% of the community to play PvP, unfortunately this was a massive overestimation,

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seems pretty accurate for the Aether cluster

I don't even think it's the grind TBH.. It's the fact that queues are long as fck. And not only that but when you do manage to get into a game, the games are usually 1 min and under (then back to waiting in queue again!)... AND We have to play thousands of games in the SAME ugly fcking arena with the same damn game type.. WTB frontlines... ffs pvp community dying now.. I don't even see any of the oldie rank 30s on primals DC anymore..

luckily for me I've been 30 for a while, but this is killing off the newer generation of pvpers =(

Yes - it's sad to see how few people are PvPing lately. SE really needs to combine data center queues for PvP..

Currently I only play with hope of an amazing open PvP map where it's chaos and awesomeness. If Front Lines isn't what I think it is, I'll probably switch over to another RvR game because that's what I personally love and spend most of my time in games. But I have super high hopes this one will deliver a great war map.

how do you have open world pvp in a game without real factions? I know they say grand company vs or w/e but that means you are going to be fighting your friends and the uldah one will likeley be a zerg :p
i don't think there's enough people pvping on adamantois to have any meaningful large scale pvp barely even enough to make an 8 man

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Originally Posted by Pentara

how do you have open world pvp in a game without real factions? I know they say grand company vs or w/e but that means you are going to be fighting your friends and the uldah one will likeley be a zerg :p
i don't think there's enough people pvping on adamantois to have any meaningful large scale pvp barely even enough to make an 8 man

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Well the PvP you participate in now is for the purpose of training and gaining battle exp according to the story. In real life the militaries across the world have war games within themselves and it get's pretty heated at times depending on the funding allowed. The great thing about this is there is no limit to the funding allowed and you can kill your friends cause the Crystal of Light will allow them to respawn.

I think more people will PvP when there are more options than just arena style available. My only experience in PvP other than FFXIV was in WoW and in that game I, and many people I played with, spent much more time playing Battlegrounds or world PvP than arenas. In fact, I probably would have never stepped foot into arenas if it didn't help gear up my character.

I imagine the same will hold true for FFXIV. I think many more people will join in PvP once there are options besides just the Wolves Den.

got to rank 13 about 2 days after patch.....Now im rank 17 and games are about every 20 mins on peak hours.....I gave up because in my playtime I might get 6 games in 2 hours of play and if I lose even half of them its just not worth the time invested vs XP......I don't really PVE so Im at a loss.....

BTW Marlboro server (bard)

also I think RvR would be awesome in this game and I love low pop pvp games (not this low) so you know everyone you play with and against and gain certain friendships and enemys

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

I think more people will PvP when there are more options than just arena style available. My only experience in PvP other than FFXIV was in WoW and in that game I, and many people I played with, spent much more time playing Battlegrounds or world PvP than arenas. In fact, I probably would have never stepped foot into arenas if it didn't help gear up my character.

I imagine the same will hold true for FFXIV. I think many more people will join in PvP once there are options besides just the Wolves Den.

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more people will pvp for like a week or 2 but they will get raped by ppl that have been pvping all along and will quit :p

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Originally Posted by Pentara

how do you have open world pvp in a game without real factions? I know they say grand company vs or w/e but that means you are going to be fighting your friends and the uldah one will likeley be a zerg :p

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If frontline is a real open world pvp, tri faction will be nice if sharing is 2serv vs 2serv vs 2serv from our own datacenter (exemple).
Grand company sound bad cause changing gc means restart pvp rank grinding

yea if it's cross server or cross datacenter then yea it's going to be awesome imo. if its just your own server gc vs gc vs gc then it's going to be super one sided and shitty :|

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Originally Posted by ErzaYawgmoth

They'll have to reduce the grind. It takes way to long to feel rewarded or successful at PVP when you compare it to how often PvE rewards it's players.

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Nah yuh gottah feel dat grind to get to lvl30 and finally get to where that i90 gear and wreck shit lol, till then plz stay in 30/40's dont come to 50's and be another "PVE HERO" lololol

Why reduce the grind? Everyone complains that this game is only for casuals and no hardcore content. Then they complain it's too hard to grind to pvp lv 30. It should be hard and long, it feels epic when you finally hit it like something you've been working hard for. Besides, you get better and get to know your class and your roles in pvp better with all the fights.

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Originally Posted by ulti_19

Why reduce the grind? Everyone complains that this game is only for casuals and no hardcore content. Then they complain it's too hard to grind to pvp lv 30. It should be hard and long, it feels epic when you finally hit it like something you've been working hard for. Besides, you get better and get to know your class and your roles in pvp better with all the fights.

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Agreed. The grind is NOT the problem, it is completely fine where it is at. Hell, after 2.15 it got even easier (less time consuming) to hit rank 30. The problem is long queues and full geared i70/rank 30 pvp players steamrolling the newer players (ofc no one would want to go through the grind when they constantly lose)

The grind to rank 30 is fine, just fix up the system somehow