Suspicious Characters

Exactly which option do we use to report characters suspected of being RMT? Do we use harassment or do we use cheating?

I have noticed they are still using Archers, this time around Lalafels. I am also noticing that one of them may atleast have level (or close to it) apropiate gear now, but no GC or FC affiliation. The usual odd letter names though it seems that some are having some thought put into the name.

I had reported a couple of miners via harassment a few days ago, but they are still mining (shards I believe). Why do I suspect them? No GC or FC, gear way below their levels, not using any actions, ie: wards etc, besides being at the same nodes seemingly 24/7.

I myself will no longer buy shards etc from the Market Board considering that the gil I spend may be ending up in GSer's pockets. Good thing I have all my gatherers capped.

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Originally Posted by Wulfyn

Exactly which option do we use to report characters suspected of being RMT? Do we use harassment or do we use cheating?

I have noticed they are still using Archers, this time around Lalafels. I am also noticing that one of them may atleast have level (or close to it) apropiate gear now, but no GC or FC affiliation. The usual odd letter names though it seems that some are having some thought put into the name.

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If they aren't teleporting or doing other crazy stuff, you may have reported an innocent person. You shouldn't use the report tool as a paranoia device. I personally don't use a fc (I mainly use LS) and mine quite often. Sometimes I'm nude if I'm just farming crystals (due to me converting my HQ gear and not buying replacements yet). It makes me mad to think I'd be reported by people who are making assumptions.

When I still thought that SE cared, I used the option for Cheating.

Most bots will also run around in hq crafted gear to spiritbond it. I've seen a few that DO have a FC, but very few jobs, no AF, and the kicker was that though their names seemed real, their chocobos were named Asdad and Afsd.

Report as cheating. And yes, they all have no GC affiliation and generally have HQ crafted gear now churned out by crafting bots. They're evolving.

RMT actions such as those ARC clones parties, obvious teleporting gatherers and spam in general should go in Report Cheating.

But make sure and think twice so you don't report innocent people.

Thus that is SE's job to determine if they are or not, as for FC ... that is tossed out the window because I just thought about how many players have no FC. Having no GC and maybe the exact same mage leveled to maybe 10 is suspect to me. Not using any action specially for a higher level gatherer ie: wards or even Kings Yield is suspect to me. I can go mine for a bit log off wake up and check MB then do a bit more mining, and guess what? They are still there at the same nodes day after day. I will observe awhile before I report. You shouldn't get mad about it as SE is giving us tools to essentially help them police the game.

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Originally Posted by Wulfyn

Thus that is SE's job to determine if they are or not.

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This sounds like "I'LL REPORT ANYONE I FEEL IS THE LEAST BIT SUSPICIOUS REGARDLESS OF IF THEY'RE INNOCENT AND LET SE SORT THEM OUT".

That's extremely bad logic.

There are times where I'm focusing on something else like TV and simply click to mine, not really using any abilities (even though I'd likely get better results out of it). The fact that you're basing your reports on that and GC/FC is just sad. Thank god I'm not on your server.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

This sounds like "I'LL REPORT ANYONE I FEEL IS THE LEAST BIT SUSPICIOUS REGARDLESS OF IF THEY'RE INNOCENT AND LET SE SORT THEM OUT".

That's extremely bad logic.

There are times where I'm focusing on something else like TV and simply click to mine, not really using any abilities (even though I'd likely get better results out of it). The fact that you're basing your reports on that and GC/FC is just sad. Thank god I'm not on your server.

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It's not necessarily that he's saying he'll report everyone and everything. You have to admit, when you play the game for a while, you get a sense of when someone is a bot. Your brain recognizes that their movements are in a set pattern and don't deviate from that pattern. That's what sets off your instincts that you're seeing a bot.

The GC/FC and gear allow you to confirm that your suspicions may have merit, then you report. It really IS SE's job to determine if a bot is a bot. The fact that he's taking the extra time to check out GC/FC/Gear tells me that he's not just reporting anyone he wants to, but he's reporting those people that set off his instincts AND have other suspicious characteristics.

Sounds like you are easily upsetted. Sounds like I will report anyone is a bit of rubbish. Lets face it, the way things were set up to counter RMT is not exactly working. I watch movies while gathering but still use actions to maximize my time spent. 1 DoL leveled and one mage leveled to 10 with no GC and being at the same nodes that only give out crystals, carbonized matter, and pigment.

Day after day with crap gear for your level, yea looks iffy to me. Being naked is one thing which I ignore. Being capped with no relic main hand (DoL) yea looks iffy to me. Ultimate decision as to if a character is RMT, looks like SE's job. You may never even know if you have been reported, unless you get suspended or banned. You could have members in your FC's or LS's that are cheating and not know it.

The new miner I am observing is capped at 50, has HQ gear but no relic pick? Come on.. No GC is one give away. I had never considered that some of them would be spirit bonding higher level HQ gears until now. Still no relic pick....

Personally if I were SE I would create my own gil buying website and ban anyone who tried to buy gil... If people would stop buying it then they would stop advertising it...

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Personally if I were SE I would create my own gil buying website and ban anyone who tried to buy gil... If people would stop buying it then they would stop advertising it...

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Dear Lord. I don't know if the would be legal, but man what a great idea lol (if it's legal).

I'm not sure if selling gil in game is legal or not either (considering they're advertising without consent). Selling in game gil is a violation of policy, not law. The only thing I've wondered about is advertising in game without consent. That IS civilly punishable through punitive damages I would believe. Whether or not it's worth any time I do not know.

Of course its legit. EVE Online has been doing it for years, and that more or less killed off any serious RMT activity.

Ok, they don't actually sell in-game money directly per se, but the PLEX system allows you to convert time cards bought in stores for a multitude of purposes. They also allow purchase PLEX on the ingame markets, which can be backwards converted into game time too.

From their own site:

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What is PLEX?

PLEX
PLEX is an in-game item that can be used to pay for your subscription without using more traditional payment methods. By using PLEX, you can pay for your game time simply by playing the game.

You can buy PLEX through our Account Management site or you can buy PLEX with in-game ISK. Because PLEX is an in-game item you can also make in-game profit for yourself by buying and selling it on the market.

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He should report anyone that is suspect. Botters are destroying the economy for lidget gathers!

Either way in the end it is up to us to report suspicious activity and SE encourages us to do so. It is up to them to decide if someone is innocent or not in the end.

You can just sit there and not report someone who may be suspicious, that is your choice. Just do not whine about the prices of stuff or the flooding and under cutting of prices because that is probably happening at the moment.

I have no doubt some of the under cutting is being done by gil farmers. The thing is all you will see is a retainer name, you will never know who the retainer belongs to. Only SE knows.

The intent was to find out which option people were using to report such things, not for people to get butt hurt and flame. I tend to observe for a bit before I report or not. So troll on flame on.

@ Marael : Sorry you get harassed by other players, I don't do that. It is not up to us to decide if someone is botting, that is SE's job. We only have the option to let them know if someone is suspect if we feel they may be. No different than someone reporting someone for harassment or being vulgar in chat if you wish.

I must admit I get harassed quite a lot too. But I reckon I have enough there to convince people I am a real person.

Do I have relic mainhand?
Of course

Do I have AF gear, including melds?
Only the hat, because my game plan is to craft them myself when I am able to - hence why I am gathering for hours!

Do I run the same pattern over and over?
Uhm, yes actually! Even with a movie on in the background, I settle 'in the zone', so to speak. I do tend to do dozens of circuits of the same nodes over and over.

Will I respond to /tells?
Depends how much of an a'hole is sending the /tell.

I do tend to jump around a lot if there are other people around. Sometimes 5 times in a row, sometimes I deliberatey jump over rocks that a bot would get stuck behind. just little things to show I am human.

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Personally if I were SE I would create my own gil buying website and ban anyone who tried to buy gil... If people would stop buying it then they would stop advertising it...

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That's entrapment!!

Nah, they wouldnt need to ban. So long as the do the same that EVE Online does, then it'll be kosher. Since the currency is already in the economy, SE could make a tidy profit from it.

just simpel send /tell and ask simpel question, watch his patterns if he keeps do thing same over and over without a break in between then its no human.
Ihave seen bot's run exackly same patterns by use sprint and jump but always jumping at exackly same spot.

Yeah some bots are able to perform a jump every 10 seconds or so, but unless they are able to do it completely at random, it does stick out like a sore thumb.

Send them a /tell, RMT don't usually respond. Although I had one very obvious rmt with a name that look like they just pounded their head against the kb threaten to report me for harassment in very broken English just for saying hello lol

EVE Online's system would never work here. The reason they can allow players to buy in game currency with cash with little to no negative impact on the game is that all of your assets can be destroyed permanently. If the ships/modules you bought with the ISK (eve equivilant to gil) you received from your sanctioned RMT through their company could not be destroyed, the game's economy would fall apart. Essentially sure, you could spend boatloads of cash irl and get super rich in EVE, but one bad decision can put you right down at the bottom of the barrel so to speak. Having money doesn't make you OP, it just makes you competetive until someone better happens along.

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Personally if I were SE I would create my own gil buying website and ban anyone who tried to buy gil... If people would stop buying it then they would stop advertising it...

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Just do it like at the beginning of 1.0 and put in 15k gil rewards for leves.
And also put in a chance to get 100k gil from one leve ^^

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/82...0/547/833n.jpg

This way people would not think about buying gil with real money.

I think there are definitely characters out there who are involved in RMT activity who go against the grain of the observations that were noted earlier. Take this player I spotted on Wellwick Road farming fire crystals:

Clearly a bot/rmt farmer in my opinion. No significant character progress, no mount. He had no FC or GC affiliation.
http://i.imgur.com/ccrs8om.jpg

And his gear. Note that he DOES have his pick and AF gloves; but there is no belt AND some of the gear is lv1/lv5.
http://i.imgur.com/LkqBNbU.jpg


Personally, I would have no problems reporting this guy. I find it extremely hard to believe someone would be so incompetent with their gearing; and besides, this guy would struggle with high end nodes so there clearly has been no attempt to aim for those stat requirements.

I don't know how it is in other servers, a lot of gathering Bot(s) in Goblin will have a lvl 50 miner, and like most of you pointed out only one class upto 10 or 11, obviously so they can unlock and use other classes.
They use to just have basic lvl 1 gear, usually less than lvl 10 gear too at lvl 50. I've seen teleporting ones, under the map bot(s), bot(s) with tweaked super fast mining swings. I've reported, they disappeared; now they have more realistic names, they use sprint now before leaving a node, but still travel in a pattern (such as running towards an area then turning around, at the same point each cycle).
I too started seeing (I still call them "bots" you begin to recognize automated behaviors) with HQ gear, yet still a lvl 5 pickaxe. You can't tell me unless you're completely bored and have no job, that you can level miner to 50 and only play a DoW to 10?

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Originally Posted by Sparky

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All of the bots I've seen have the same visual gear as the one you posted. They always wear that blue shirt. And yes, with 1upAquaris, I have seen them Sprint to node to node with going through even obstacles in their path as if they are a ghost. Plus I've seen one swing a pickaxe as if it were the Kraken Club from FFXI in four quick swings.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

I think there are definitely characters out there who are involved in RMT activity who go against the grain of the observations that were noted earlier. Take this player I spotted on Wellwick Road farming fire crystals:

Clearly a bot/rmt farmer in my opinion. No significant character progress, no mount. He had no FC or GC affiliation.
http://i.imgur.com/ccrs8om.jpg

And his gear. Note that he DOES have his pick and AF gloves; but there is no belt AND some of the gear is lv1/lv5.
http://i.imgur.com/LkqBNbU.jpg

Personally, I would have no problems reporting this guy. I find it extremely hard to believe someone would be so incompetent with their gearing; and besides, this guy would struggle with high end nodes so there clearly has been no attempt to aim for those stat requirements.

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I have a set of low-level gear I use when I gather shards though...

I try to grind every craft and gatherer to level 20 for less leve consumption but along the way; I've noticed RMT's flying around swinging their pick at 90 times human speed and when reported it took SE atleast 20 hours to ban him because when i logged for the day and came back he was still at it. honestly SE needs to up security or are economy will be that of a F2P.
updates that need to be added -spam throttle so if someone sends way too many messages the server mutes them (crappy but effective) - X and Y cords to be monitered every so often (excluding cord Z because fall speed)

I have a character on his server. I've seen the lalafells he's talking about and they are suspicious. They run in a pack from FATE to FATE, all look identical, have what appear to be normal looking names but on closer inspection are patterned, wear only starting gear regardless of level, and use one skill over and over and over. I've contemplated myself that they might be a new RMT brand.

But considering all I see them do is run FATEs in bad gear, it's hard to know what to report them for. Bad taste? Despite my suspicions, I've not seen them actually do anything against TOS.

In the case of the example pics I posted above, I did report him. I worded my report very carefully to emphasize that it was my opinion that something was amiss, and why I thought so. Then I stressed that it requires investigation and that I am not 100% certain of the activities that character was carrying out. This should be enough to cover him in the unlikely event he's legit, but also gives SE enough to properly investigate.

I just want to add, it really is imperitive that you include as much info as you possibly can in your tickets. It's simply not enough to say "This player is botting" etc , you need to go way further, and include exactly what it is you observed, and why you think this is suspicious. I find that by my estimate, 90% of the time, a detailed ticket I send results in prompt action by SE. The botters I report that are still around a day or two later, usually because I did not have time to file a detailed report. It takes SE a lot longer to investigate if they are not given proper information.

Bonus tip: If you have space on your blacklist, add any players you report to the blacklist. You can them time how long it is for them to be banned, by checking to see if the are still there and not showing as <deleted> :)

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Originally Posted by Wulfyn

Lets face it, the way things were set up to counter RMT is not exactly working.

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There is only ONE thing which works against RMT: Do NOT BUY THEIR GIL. End of the Story, for everything else rmt's will find a way around mechanics to achieve their Goal. As long as people buy gil, because they are either to lazy, stupid or spoiled brats or w/e reason, so long we will see RMT's, regardless of the Game.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Bonus tip: If you have space on your blacklist, add any players you report to the blacklist. You can them time how long it is for them to be banned, by checking to see if the are still there and not showing as <deleted> :)

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Unfortunately that's incorrect. The (Deleted) names you see are not deleted by SE nor even banned by SE. RMT have begun deleting their own characters and remaking them to get around blists. SE has confirmed that they are not deleting characters when banning.

What I frequently do is check my blist at the end of each day. I typically find that one of the RMT I blisted that day for an unwanted tell deleted their own character.

You know, folks need to be careful about reporting others as possible RMT. A group of my FC members and I were running a treasure map party and working through several maps, so we were group teleporting to the next map zone after each one, and of course riding our mounts as a group to the next map location. Well, on one of the maps in Eastern Thanlan we all arrived on our mounts from Drybone, dismounted, and got ready for the map and as we found the chest and got ready to open it, someone gathering at a near by mining node used say to ask another player to report "these bots". None of us were in the same gear, there were a couple of players playing WHM, but other than that we were a good spread of classes, mostly with relics +1, differing mounts, obviously individual names and appearances. Yet someone thought that because we arrived together, we must be a 'bot' party. No, just a group of 8 friends running treasure maps to boost their housing fund actually.

Has the suspicion of RMT grown to the point where any group of players working on a common activity is seen as suspicious? That's ridiculous.

I think it's fine to report suspicious characters, but INCLUDE why they are suspicious and why you assume they are a bot of some sort.

Here are some of my suggestions to break certain bots that I've used in my tests.

1.) Check character/lodestone - Check out their lodestone page. Do they even have their job? For example, are they ONLY a level 50 archer/arcanist (not bard/summoner)? Do they have GC affiliation? Do they have the default character appearance of their particular race

2.) Try communication - You can try emotes or /tell messages to grab their attention. One time, I actually contacted this "bot", and they responded saying to mind my own business and things like that, after I called them out for using a bot of some kind. They tried to deny me, but when I pointed out various aspects about them that clearly showed some form of auto-macroing bot like behaviour, they didn't respond.

3.) Try to kill/break them - Often times, you can interrupt a bot's behaviour depending on what they're using. Lots of times, I'll try to kill the person I suspect being a bot to see if they react in any way. If a legit player sees you trying to get enemies to AOE them and kill them, they're likely not to just do the same thing they've been doing for the past hour.

Personally, I've witnessed an arcanist farming out in La Noscea somewhere, maybe EXP grinding with some auto-macro thing... I noticed that if I used "trade" with them, they couldn't execute any more actions, and the only thing keeping them alive was their pet's agro. I eventually rounded up a lot of enemies with AOEs to come in, quickly traded with them before they could try to stick their pet on them, and had them all AOE and kill the guy.

I have lots of funny stories of my encounters with bots, yesterday I actually saw 4 identically geared level 50 archers all spawn in by the repair person in Mor Dhona convert what felt like 1,000 items into materia one after each other like a perfectly choreographed dance routine, and proceeded to all disconnect from the game simultaneously, AND later when they came back, all queued for a duty together.

Here are the four characters:
Easy Recovery
Ubki Ubknwu
Nijnren Nijnren
Liutingy Liutingy

Notice the naming convention here except for our friend Easy Recovery... they have a more unique name, they're part of an FC, they have some minions and their GC mount. Is this a victim of RMT scammers stealing someone's account? Or, perhaps it's just one of the more used characters from this particular botter.

Anyways, maybe some of this will help with people looking to confirm a bot, I always love finding new ways to try and break them.