Speed Runs in Roulette?

I'm really not bringing this up to whine. I want to know if I'm in the wrong, or the types of players I'm about to call out are.


Okay, so, I started playing post 2.1. I'm up to Coil Turn 3 (haven't got around to breezing through it, but have beat turn 2 with both enrage and non-enrage groups) and have run each of the non-Coil dungeons (with the exception of PS and Hakukke HM) at least a dozen times.

My personal philosophy is this:

If I'm running with my FC, I will speed run... because I know everyone in the FC knows what they are doing.

If I'm in Roulette, I keep a brisk pace to ensure everyone stays alive and doesn't take damage, but, I don't assume that everyone knows how to speedrun.


So, there have been about a half dozen times where I've run roulette and someone within the group decides to take it upon themselves to tell me I'm "doing it the wrong way".

Keep in mind that we're moving along just fine, no one is wiping, no one outside of me (tank) is taking any damage.

In one situation, we were 9 minutes into a WP run and had just downed the first boss. We were on pace to finish the dungeon in between 22-25 minutes. Someone decided to chime in, "sorry, but can you just follow my instructions from here on out, this is taking WAY too long for WP".

In another situation, we were in CB HM and someone yelled at me for not avoiding mobs by running the group past them and to elevators, or, for not pulling 6-8 mobs at once... as opposed to just pulling two groups of 3-4.



Am I in the wrong here, or are they?

Should I assume that everyone joining via roulette knows how to speed run every dungeon in the optimal manner?

Personally, I don't think so.


And let me say this... I completely understand people who get frustrated with tanks who keep losing aggro. Or, tanks who pull one mob at a time in a place like WP where you have to keep ahead of the stalker. That's not what I'm getting at.

I just don't understand people who rage when you finish a dungeon in 24 minutes (with 0 wipes)... when they expect to finish it in 17-18 minutes using a bunch of exploits (locking out mobs, for example... which is what I got yelled at for not doing).



Tell me, am I in the wrong here, or are they?

You are not in the wrong. People joining roulette should expect vastly differing playstyles and playspeeds from the 3 other people, not speedruns.

Tell the complainer to chill out. If that doesn't work, vote to kick. It's usually an easily replaced DPS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OSUBuckeye4

Should I assume that everyone joining via roulette knows how to speed run every dungeon in the optimal manner?
Personally, I don't think so

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I agree with you. I dont think we should assume....now, having a conversation at the start of the run is perfect. I've had that plenty times. A few group comments like: Only my second time. Let's start small and work up to big pulls. I've never done this on SR. etc are a great start....but, infortunately not the norm.
As a healer, knowing if the tank is about to attempt a SR is very important, as if I heal mid mass-pull it kinda f's it up :) And, some tanks dont tell me, just crack on in there! Whaaaaaat??!! I'm like panic spam healing before i know it - lol

So, like you and the others say....never assume....at best have a conversation before start..or..sometimes start slow and if everyone is kicking ass, speed up....but never run in without making sure everyone is cool with it.

"Dude! Where you going with that mob?" I've seen in chat....lol

I tell them... tough. If they wanna set the pace for a run, they should queue up as the tank instead. (And then subsequently get their asses kicked when they inevitably get a group that is clearly not suited for speedrunning.)

Since I mostly DPS I usually let the Tank & Healer work out the speed runs while I just go with the flow. The reason I let them decide is because they can figure out how much they can pull/how fast they can do and I can match that.

I rarely see BIG arguments about speed runs ... if I do, it is in the Daily Main Scenario ... it is not limited to one class, but usually the more vocal speedrunner will make countless mistakes and actually waist time ... which confuses me 100%.

U are the tank, u are the one who sets the pace, anyone who doesn't like it should be encouraged to get out

These comments are pretty much what I expected they would be (which is good!). Glad to see that I'm not completely crazy.

In fairness it really is the exception rather than the norm... at first I thought it was because I was undergeared, but, it doesn't matter how high my ilvl goes... it seems that once a week doing roulette, I inevitably run into a troublemaker.

I'll go through 6 days of 1-2 commendations and a bunch of, "well done!" and "gg all!" comments at the end of roulette runs... and then I get the run from heck where someone is not satisifed with a 22 minute run, and decides to hijack the group in an attempt to get it down to 18 minutes (and generally causes multiple wipes and the dungeon ends up taking 30 minutes).


/rant

I should also say, in fairness, I have nothing against people who offer constructive criticism or helpful tips during runs. I'm not trying to say that people should keep their mouth shut if I'm doing something obviously wrong. It's just tone that is the problem I guess.

It's perfectly fine if I'm pulling the wrong mob first and someone says, "just FYI, you should be pulling that other mob because of their AoE"... or, "you can drag those two mobs out of range of the Stalker" and then offer to show me how. I do enjoy learning more efficient ways to run dungeons, and, if I'm doing something that is completely wrong, I do like to know so I can adjust. I've progressed pretty far through the game (mostly through trial and error, I don't watch Youtube vidoes of anything), but, I'm not perfect and never claim to be.

It just bugs me when people say, "this is going too slow, you obviously have no idea how to run this map and have been carried up till now... step aside and let me lead", and then start using a bunch of exploits and telling me "that's the way everyone runs this, you're running it the lvl 17 way".

I must have missed the memo that said that if you aren't exploiting game mechanics to avoid fighting mobs, you're not running dungeons properly.

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Originally Posted by Moonwolfthegrey

U are the tank, u are the one who sets the pace, anyone who doesn't like it should be encouraged to get out

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True to a degree.
There are tanks that want to speedrun when the others don't want to or are not able to.

Personally I don't do speedruns. I prefer low stress runs.
In duty roulette I've occasionally come across tanks that think they can speedrun, as well as made sure to kick one tank that repeatedly pulled way more than could be handled.
Most of the time they quickly adapt themselves to me as healer when they see I'm not doing what they're used to for speedruns, but seldom any complaints as things proceed at a steady pace either way.

One of the worst type is the ones that pull as much as possible to boss room and try to get the mobs locked out.

Essentially, if anyone wants speedruns, go make a party in the party finder for it.

I don't mind speedruns if you have archers/bards or thaum/black mages that can really AoE things down, but in low level dungeons with lancers/dragoons or pug/monks that don't have access to their AoEs yet, it's really not fun at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moonwolfthegrey

U are the tank, u are the one who sets the pace, anyone who doesn't like it should be encouraged to get out

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Disagree, I found tank in darklight pull 2-3 groups in WP without realizing our dps got only ilvl 55 weapon,
it took like forever to kill those mobs and myself heal like crazy. Then I told him to pull one group at a time so that I can help dps as SCH. It went very well after that.

Point is, tank is just one out of three role in this game, don't have privilege to force other players to follow your playstyle.
You should listen to other whether or not they are comfortable to do so.

I think it's been pretty well said already that play style varies widely in roulette and no one player has the right to decide how the dungeon is run. As is, you're in the right, which is why most of your groups give you commendations. You will always find that one guy in the bunch who wants to leeroy and doesn't stop to see if the rest of the party can handle it, but that's what the vote kick option is for. If that person is being counter productive and/or rude, just vote kick them. If you conform to their style, or allow them to force you to conform, then you're only going to encourage that behavior in them and they're guaranteed to do it with the next group. Sometimes you have to tell those people to stand down, and if they don't want to, don't let them spoil the fun for you and the rest of your team. More often then not, if you allow them to force the team to move at their speed instead of trying to find the right speed for your group you will end up wiping multiple times anyways no matter how easy the dungeon is.