The community is only as toxic as we make it

You will always run into bad apples, but remaining positive and patient will go a long way to creating a good community. Recently I found enjoyment from this game not in the form of loot, victories over difficult encounters, or how quickly a run goes, but in encouraging normally shy, or inexperienced players a chance to learn without being berated. Please be patient with people viewing cut scenes and give better explanations of fights, other than just saying " dodge $#!+". Lets make a real effort in communication. If you want to give half-assed explanations, expect half assed results. I know some people are new and don't speak up, but our community as a whole has discouraged people from speaking up because of fear. Time to change that. It is rewarding to see new players succeed and a party be supportive of each other. Your tomes and loot will always be there, but players might not be.

It's toxic enough that I've basically stopped playing. I play games for enjoyment and even if people aren't amazing at the game it pains me to see my fellow players ripping people apart rather than try and help them improve. While I can appreciate the need to expand the playerbase they've also brought in the worst kind of people who's terrible attitudes on life have spread through the rest of the players like a never ending miasma.

I've basically given up on this nonsense but I remain hopeful that perhaps when ESO comes out these monsters will move on.

I rarely ever see these "evil elitists" people speak of. What I do see a LOT of is newbies snapping, snarling and screaming at people who simply try to give them pointers/help them out.

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Originally Posted by Elim

I rarely ever see these "evil elitists" people speak of. What I do see a LOT of is newbies snapping, snarling and screaming at people who simply try to give them pointers/help them out.

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I've seen quite the opposite, but I suppose how you approach it the subject has much to do with the reaction you receive. That and they've probably gotten on the defensive after someone railed on them earlier that day and expected more of the same. People on both sides tend to forget there is a real human person on the other end of that keyboard, we could all do with a bit more civility.

I think you are right. Tone is really hard to read when we are not talking face to face, as a result I think people are quick to be offended easier. Changing how one phrases things could go a long way. There will always be negative Nancy's, but civility is key. Not to sound like some spiritual hippy, but positivity and civility is contagious and is step in the right direction for all to have a better experience with a group of strangers.

But but these new players are wasting MINUTES of my time by not doing everything perfect like I do! Never mind that I was once new and took up someone else's time by learning mechanics and making honest human errors, this is all about ME and if I can't have MY loots and one-shot wins those people need to get out MY game!!!!








/obigatory sarcasm tag before someone gets the wrong idea

The toxicity really made me dislike this game, but to be fair I have also met a lot of classy and helpful people. We can hope that those type of people move on when other games are released, but this is a problem that exists within most online communities these days. However, with a more proactive stance on people acting like jerks we can discourage this behavior, especially when the majority shuns them.

To be honest, I absolutely despise PF groups that threaten to kick/humilate/shame players for making mistakes and will never join or help them regardless of whether I'm experienced and know everything about the fight or not.

I have experienced everything above either personally or watched it happen to someone else. I think the "Mean People" are few and far between and I wish they would all just chill out and have fun. I have also met a ton of very helpful and awesome players. For example:
I was going for my 4th Relic (PLD) and needed my Titan win. I set up a Party finder and put in a comment in and asked for help. Not 5 minutes later I had My LS4 group coming to the rescue guns blazing and saying let's go help Liah. Now I know you are going to say...yeah they are in your LS. This is a LS4 with all people I have maybe only met once or twice...this is how nice some players are...love it!!!

I try and help where I can but it's gotten to the point I don't know if someone's just ignorant or if they're trolling. Case in point: DR'd a Dezamel with this SMN. She was 46, only used Topaz Carby, would run into AOEs, wouldn't stand in crystal veil during Ahriman, attached batraal when he was invulnerable, wouldn't debuff or use anything but ruin, wouldn't start fighting until 1-2 minutes into the fight. I got so fed up with her not listening I stopped healing her.

The toxicity won't change till end game mechanics changes. Unforgiving mechanics + repetition = bad.

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Originally Posted by WillowRosenburg

I try and help where I can but it's gotten to the point I don't know if someone's just ignorant or if they're trolling. Case in point: DR'd a Dezamel with this SMN. She was 46, only used Topaz Carby, would run into AOEs, wouldn't stand in crystal veil during Ahriman, attached batraal when he was invulnerable, wouldn't debuff or use anything but ruin, wouldn't start fighting until 1-2 minutes into the fight. I got so fed up with her not listening I stopped healing her.

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This could be one of those bots used to run dungeons over and over. Unless they were actively talking

I also had a SMN that used titan-egi, and only used ruin and blizzard 2. It was certainly not a bot since they were actually talking so I just concluded they were trolling and didn't bite.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

This could be one of those bots used to run dungeons over and over. Unless they were actively talking

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She got confused when she died and asked if she had to go back to the beginning to catch up after the Ahriman boss, so don't think she was a bot.

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Originally Posted by WillowRosenburg

She got confused when she died and asked if she had to go back to the beginning to catch up after the Ahriman boss, so don't think she was a bot.

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Then it was just a really REALLY bad player or a good troll

I spend a lot of my time in low level duties lately leveling off jobs and I'm doing what I can to assist others in their jobs if they are open to it. I've made quit a difference especially for tanks.

So far, I've experienced selfish assholes, conscientious do-gooders, kind strangers, and all manner of different playing styles. I've already had at least two tanks who were borderline impossible to play with, and a half-dozen who were just fine. I've been a jerk my own fair share of times, too, no matter how many times I've sat and waited for my GCD so that I can res some random player.

The important thing about this game, and any other MMO, isn't that "there are all kinds of people". It's that human beings are human. They're not consistent, they're not predictable, and yes, they're all a little different. You don't just need to be good at the game to play well, or have a few friends around. You need to have some social skills. And patience. And empathy.

So what makes a bad player, just cause they don't listen maybe or they are trolling though I dont think that means in the way people use it. What im saying is people for the most im sure aren't trying to be bad and just dont know mechanics of some fights or what you need to do. I myself was ripped on the other day cause I didn't have my relic weapon and no i90 gear while running amdapor keep. Apparently if your level 50 i90 gear is required. º.º

Some players expect everyone to be perfect if you will and get all ticked when they don't play to their level of expectations.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Snip

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In my book a bad player is one who is ignorant to their mistakes and advice given if they are doing things in a very subpar manner. Like in the example WillowRosenburg gave, it was a summoner who was using Topaz Carby in DD which means they haven't been doing their summoner quests (L44 dungeon and haven't done past the level 30 quest) or were still an arcanist, and on top of that they're using their TANK pet over their DPS pet. The player was only using Ruin, no DoTs, would start fights late and would get hit by a vast majority attacks, and on top of that would not listen to advice. This in theory could be trolling, but if this player was being serious, then this is by far a perfect example of a bad player

It's not about playing to a specific person's skill level, it's about not holding your team back, this is an MMO afterall. It's about not playing below the minimum expectancy (as set by the dev team, which is already as low as it can get)

Another definition I would give of a bad player is one with a bad attitude. Unwilling to give advice or try again after a wipe. It's understandable if it's 3 wipes w/o progress, but the very first is unacceptable. Yells at players who are new to the game or an instance because they have no experience. Talks down on everybody else without bringing a bite to back up the bark.

I could go on and on but I've made my point across

AK doesn't even have hard mechanics and most of that dungeon is considered CT trash mobs lol which in that instance requires 50 ilvl so those players are just try hards who forgot they were once there too.

People are so unreasonable and silly in high level dungeons it's absurd at some points which is why I will utilize everything else but them to cap myth. With such a low cap on it I find I don't need it to cap at all when I get 200 from coil about 50 from ex primals and then about 200 in map farming. So many ways to skip duty roulette without the drama.

I find the toxicity in the lockout system for the most part.

I've had great friends who've turned from an enjoyable experience of 'friendship' (to be cringy) who've turned into screaming children in a short space of time.
I've encountered the issue, and so have many others, I've even been the screaming child whether internally or externally and it only brings out the worst in everyone.

They only thing the lockout system has achieved is the disillusion of guilds, linkshells and long-term friendships which were pretty much dissolved in a very short period of time due to the way the game currently works.

"I dont get what you mean?"

A Free Company lets assume has three parties; A, B and C, all are 8 and running Turns 1-5 throughout the week on their own times.

Party A has an absense of member(s) and takes member(s) from B to fill the gap. Party A forget to discuss it with party B and continue with the member(s) taken and complete Turns 1-5.

Due to the lockout system the member(s) can no-longer back track and access BCoB until next Monday leaving Party B to either replace or not run for the week.


This is destined to cause MAJOR issues. Instead of a loot/token lockout system for gear in BcOB, we're left with an entire lockout leaving friends seperated and people generally stuck in groups of 8 that are difficult to change, adjust or deal with timetabling.

"This sounds a bit exagerated"

I've watched multiple Free Companies crumble and fall because of this, people get left out, people get upset, people can't help other people.
For a game that used to so perfectly promote "Working Together" in FFXI and XIV 1.23 they've thoroughly spat on that.



The lockout benefits no-one.
Casual players in the Free Company will be left behind, the other parties have already run for the week, the later into the week the harder it is for them to find a pick up group.
Hardcore players are unable to be swapped around or fill in gaps in other parties, sometimes rendering other parties useless.

A loot lockout system would prove so much more enjoyable.

Friend would be able to help friends, gaps in groups could be filled, members could be replaced without worry. "It's okay I've got my two pieces of loot for the week, I'll tank for you!".


Why didn't they do this?

Content Longevity.

They want content to last as long as possible, if people can't run it when they want, they're unable to help other to progress further.
They other fear being people would grow to tire of the same content repeated throughout the week much quicker.

[Also this was my 666th post, go figure...]

There are fights which cannot be explained. More so if 7/8 of the party are experienced. That said, its good to be well mannered.

I also hate the coil lockout system for the same reason. My FC doesn't have enough people or tanks to have two raid groups, and some people can't even be included for the weekly coil runs because of how the system works.

The lockout honestly benefits nobody at all, and I'd think it'd be much better if it had a loot lockout like CT.

Gotta agree with OP, seen it too many times. Just last night did random duty only to get a tank that would not let up on this DRG. We were in Barx... what ever that lvl 32 dungeon is with the poison dragon fight. Long story short. Drg dc's just as fight starts. The remaining three of us trio the dragon. Tank then ends the day with telling us what p.o.s we are and was disgruntled for having even helped us level.

Wish I could say this was the first time I have seen something like that, but it's not. What the hell people?! It's only a game!

You know they have said they are removing the lockout for turns 1-5.

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Originally Posted by Diadumenos

What the hell people?! It's only a game!

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I never understood it either. I believe the main problem is that there is the small percentage of people that treat the game like a job. Another problem is the lack of people standing up to the louder/more foul mouthed people.

IE: In DF, Tank entered and stated, "Everyone must agree to pass on all the loot or I will leave!" I was the only person that said something and that something was, "Go ahead. I'll even do a Votekick for you :D!" (I was the healer) -Queue Tank Raging & Leaving-

Now, what would have happened if I hadn't of spoken up? The rest of the group would have done the DF with a douche tank and no one else would have gotten anything.

It's not only tanks, I've seen DPS foul mouth other DPS.

I think the community as a whole needs to stand up to these kinds of people, no matter what class they are, and let it be known that people wont stand for it.

~My Thoughts <3

The other day i joined a PF for the Ifrit EX. One of the healers killed us all :), was clear that he was new to the fight so i suggested after the wipe that the other one explains him what to do....no tank asp went and atacked Ifrit....and can you believe it we died again same way. Most of the party members start atacking the healer..... sorry bro you are new you must go...hey did you put exp people only in PF info....go watch videos... and such things ! Then ive spoken....how about you explained it to him what to do and stop rushing....you got time to ask if you put such stupid info in PF but you dont have time to 1-2min to explain it to him.....you ask for exp people yet you refuse to explain to new players, how will new people learn if they dont play with exp players....you are tolking as if you invented the start and as if you were never first timer here !!!


There are meany problems with FF14 but they will be fixed from SE dev team in time.....The biggest one is our Toxic Community this they wont be able to fix :(

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Originally Posted by Krokov

I myself was ripped on the other day cause I didn't have my relic weapon and no i90 gear while running amdapor keep. Apparently if your level 50 i90 gear is required. º.º

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It's a good thing then that we're not talking about most people, but some truly, irredeemably, awful exceptions. Relating your situation to the summoners we were talking about is a huge stretch, to put it lightly. A summoner that only spams ruin is literally ignoring 95%+ of his skills.

You have to be realistic, at that point you have two choices: you give unsolicited advice to the point of explaining everything the game went at lengths to teach already, or just conclude they're trolling. It is not unreasonable to expect people to at least spend a fraction of the effort that everyone else put in to make sure they're pulling weight, disrespect given is sometimes disrespect earned.

Also this is probably appropriate here.

http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png

I agreed with the content lockout when the game launched, but it's getting to the point where it feels like they should downgrade the lockout to just loot lockout CT style for the current turns once they release new turns for it. Not after they come out with an expansion pack, but whenever they release new content for the dungeon, they downgrade the lockout on the previous content, and maintain the content lockout on whatever they just released.

Either that, or just downgrade the lockout EVERY content patch, whether the patch includes content for that dungeon or not. There's so many of us, and it's been long enough that it's no longer a matter of "well there's hardly anyone that far yet anyway".

This is a suitable 6 min video that examines why online gamers are, well... jerks.
It is not a biased point of view - indeed it is rather factual.

http://www.gamespot.com/videos/reali.../2300-6416026/

The whole thing is messed up, you don't know a fight? the common answer is "watch a video!" You state your opinion or ask a general question and you have 100% of chance for someone to come & flame you on it.

Something new got into fashion now too, its these "You will be trashed down, mocked & kicked off the party if you fail" parties, I mean wtf, its alike bullying, and bullying is an act punished by laws in RL.. I really don't get what is going wrong but the whole thing is going way too far sometimes.

This game has an awesome community or at least the server I'm on does. I have never had a player be rude to me in this game.

You can be elitist without being rude or toxic, both in game and outside.
E.g.
In game, replace "You will be kicked for screwing up" to "You will be invited to this wonderful linkshell of people if you do well" and it will come across a lot better.
-> Do a few runs, then send the folks on their way and ask them to try again another time.
At the end of the day, you will also have a nice pool of folks to look in for those "weekly wins" too.

Yes. Those parties where they threaten to kick, humiliate, and shame people for making mistakes are IMO toxic and disgusting. It's as if people feel that using fear to "motivate" others is the only way.

After reading the forums so much in the past week I think a large part of the forums are toxic..butt that does not speak for the community as a whole. But I have little faith in most people who even open their mouths on the forum because it is always constant complaining and doom predictions.