Dual/triple class RNG loot

So most i90 RNG loot parties need a setup of two tanks, two healers and four DPS classes. Even by default.

Either with a static group or a pug group, the DPS slots can be locked into a configuration where, if loot drops for the respective classes, their need roll on it is a full 100% win. Evidently, the actual roll isn't even needed.

Please also take into consideration that the party doesn’t suffer from the above setup, on the contrary, most of the time this is the best configuration for a full party.

Now, with one or two special exceptions taken, healers and tanks classes cannot do the roll locked setup, without putting a severe disadvantage on the party. Consequently, these classes basically always have to roll against another healer / tank, adding more RNG. Note that with the current need/greed roll system in place, combined with dual/triple class RNG loot, this seems to be the intended way.

Class depended gear, as bought with Tomestones of Mythology at Revenant’s Toll, instantly fixes such bias on RNG distribution. Well bias, it would let any class be part of the guaranteed roll party setups.
Look it is not a major issue, sure, but silly none the less. Strange at the very least. Any thoughts? :)

I actually prefer it this way.

The concept on paper seems unfair: "My Paladin has to lot against another Warrior whenever Allagan Tank gear drops. But our only Monk gets 100% of the Monk loot because we only have one melee DPS." However, the alternative is even worse. By giving a Warrior and Paladin their own unique Allagan "class dependent gear", so they don't have to lot against each other, you simply make it even harder for your Tanks to gear up. Currently if you get an Allagan Tank Body two weeks in a row both Tanks can put them to good use. However, if you got two Warrior bodies in a row the Paladin is out of luck. Also, getting a specific Paladin or Warrior piece now becomes even harder because there's now more items that can drop from each treasure chest.

For this reason I am not looking forward to them adding 5-6 new classes either. That's just 5-6 more gear sets well have to fight against when opening up RNG chests.

i will come out of the "noob" closet and ask:

What is RNG ?for me this still is "ranged"

What is your point? Your stating something that is obvious while not actually questioning or adding anything. There isn't anything to discuss here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kimikryo

i will come out of the "noob" closet and ask:

What is RNG ?for me this still is "ranged"

---

Random Number Generator.
It's basically a dice-roll that determines an outcome... in this case, how good (or bad) you roll on a need/greed.

Random Number Generator.

In this case it simply means that all items in the Binding Coil of Bahamut are randomly dropped from a pre-determined list of possible weapons and armor. Thus one person may have their entire Allagan set after three weeks if they get lucky drops. Others may never get their last few pieces. The problem the TC brings up is that Tanks and Healers usually have to lot against each other which makes it even harder for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galactimus

For this reason I am not looking forward to them adding 5-6 new classes either. That's just 5-6 more gear sets well have to fight against when opening up RNG chests.

---

At that point, loot may well be determined by a token/voucher system versus class loot. All melee dps roll against each other for token 1, all ranged dps for token 2, etc. Boring system, but beats having a 1 in 15 chance of seeing an item one class can use, too, and then taking in to account the roll off against others for it.

Edit : Another boring alternative is to further blend the classes and revert rolls to DoW/DoM need/greed by primary attribute. Strength first? Melee dps roll off. Vitality first? Tank roll off.

Everyone in a given role would look the same (dragoon looking like a monk looking like other future melee dps), but may work out if the vanity system is good.

and who came up with this shitty idea of a new wording? That is the problem with every MMO when it comes to gear farming. Nobody called it RNG. They called it what it was "Weekly grinding for loot until you get your drop for everyone in static"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kimikryo

and who came up with this shitty idea of a new wording? That is the problem with every MMO when it comes to gear farming. Nobody called it RNG. They called it what it was "Weekly grinding for loot until you get your drop for everyone in static"

---

It generally encompasses a lot more than that though. RNG is the supreme being who reigns over all moments of chance. She determines all hits, dodges, critical hits, procs, and item drops, among other things. And RNG is a lot easier to say than your "Wgfluygydfeis" quote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kimikryo

and who came up with this shitty idea of a new wording? That is the problem with every MMO when it comes to gear farming. Nobody called it RNG. They called it what it was "Weekly grinding for loot until you get your drop for everyone in static"

---

I can't speak for you or others. I've been using and hearing RNG for loot since Everquest. Weekly loot grinding is more akin to a token system, imo, such as our mythology grind.

Having drop-chances equal across all the classes is unfair on at least two levels. First, tanks, healers, and casters share loot while DRG/MNK/BRD don't so, on average, you'll get enough loot to gear up two BRD/DRG/MNKs in the time it takes to gear up one tank/healer/caster. A fairer loot distribution would have a tank/heal/caster/brd/drg/mnk distribution of 22/22/22/11/11/11%.
Even then, though--as the OP pointed out--the game is largely designed around groups with two tanks and two heals so you could imagine an entirely equitable loot distribution looking something like 25/25/20/10/10/10%.

I think either of those systems would be a huge improvement over the current--every piece of loot has an equal drop chance--system.

To me, the loot system is fine in the terms of party makeup. The only thing I would change is for higher level gear to switch to a token system a la WoW (where armor comes from tokens that work for different armor types and have weapons and accessories be the only thing that drops directly) and for primal weapons to have the same system, or at least increase the number of simultanious drops. That run for my ifrit lance on my dragoon was painful.

I think a token system would be better, like what they've done with the EX modes. I tank in our FC coil group, 3 drops for my dragoon but none for my tank. That's not really fair to all the people who have been grinding for certain pieces for months, but with a revised system they could actually get what they've been looking for.

If the intention for RNG is to make people play over and over again, then just set the amount of tokens earned appropriately. IE, if the intended success rate is 20%, then (earning 1 token per turn, excl turn 3, maybe 2 tokens for turn 5) have each item cost 5 tokens.

It is nice if you get a couple drops in a row, but so not nice grinding months for no drops. Need more balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mazerat

I think either of those systems would be a huge improvement over the current--every piece of loot has an equal drop chance--system.

---

I must had missed something - but pardon me if I ask where do you get the idea of current loot system is a "every piece of loot has an equal drop chance" system?

In one of the devs letter or mod reply? I still can't believe any devs would give out those numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mythicrose

At that point, loot may well be determined by a token/voucher system versus class loot. All melee dps roll against each other for token 1, all ranged dps for token 2, etc. Boring system, but beats having a 1 in 15 chance of seeing an item one class can use, too, and then taking in to account the roll off against others for it.

Edit : Another boring alternative is to further blend the classes and revert rolls to DoW/DoM need/greed by primary attribute. Strength first? Melee dps roll off. Vitality first? Tank roll off.

Everyone in a given role would look the same (dragoon looking like a monk looking like other future melee dps), but may work out if the vanity system is good.

---

They took out the token system is exchange for this system.

People complained about having tokens in 1.23 and this was the replacement, a 100% drop-rate for items but a randomised drop-possibility and a Need/Greed system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mazerat

I think either of those systems would be a huge improvement over the current--every piece of loot has an equal drop chance--system.

---

Assuming a normal setup of 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 dps the 25/25/20/10/10/10 is horrendously skewed towards gearing tanks and healers. The chart below shows the best-case (no competition) and worst-case (rolling against 1 other for tank/heals, against 3 others for dps) for each roll. I don't know if it is possible to get it perfectly even across all classes in the average-case, but the way it is done now is simple and relatively close.

..................Tank/Healer....Caster............Other
Current:......(16.6, 8.8)......(16.6, 4.1)......(16.6, 4.1)
Proposed:....(25, 12.5).......(20, 5)...........(10, 2.5)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dejavutwo

Assuming a normal setup of 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 dps the 25/25/20/10/10/10 is horrendously skewed towards gearing tanks and healers.

---

This is true, but the way I look at it, an undergeared tank or healer is more likely to wipe a party than an undergeared DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kimikryo

and who came up with this shitty idea of a new wording? That is the problem with every MMO when it comes to gear farming. Nobody called it RNG. They called it what it was "Weekly grinding for loot until you get your drop for everyone in static"

---

I think this every time I hear toon,taunt,threat,rez,realm,etc

The list goes on!