NEW 2.2. Suggestion: make the new limit be based on per class/ job

hello SE,

this has been brought up many and multiple times, but in 2.2...can we have the tomes lockout be based on individual classes/or jobs? (and make the gear prices expensive and lock each ilvl tier by ranks)

thank you

i dont have any more posts to spend, so here is my responses

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Want more myth? make another character! problem solved. You even get an extra CT roll!

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this doesnt solved the problem because...

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

That beats the purpose of having the Armoury system. Genius.

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indeed

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

People wanting this change CLEARLY have extra time, I dont see the issue.

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LOL no...i dont have time to gear out all my toons. it was only recently i even got my first 3 relics on my toon...since beta 3! but thank you for making blanket generalized comments though. there are players who dont play alot and are hitting the tomes brick wall pretty hard...as i explain in my other post.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

SE said no already - It also defeats the purpose of lockouts. They're there to keep you playing and keep you busy until next patch.

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the game can still have lockouts by having the tomes locks be on every class instead globally. for example, lets say you have a drg and pld. the pld tomes would set at 300 and pld could only use the tomes it gain only on tanking/AF gear.the tomes you gain from drg cant be used to buy pld gear and vice versa.

Yeah, no. I already have trouble playing enough to cap myths, I don't want to suddenly be obligated to spend 3-4x more time per week on the game just capping myths for various classes.

Er no, I have a life: friends, family, a job and a string of meaningless hook-ups to have.
I dont wanna have spend every spare moment on this game just to get the armour/weapons to do one fight.

get your main to the new max of 2.2, spend the rest of your time getting everything else to ilv90+ from the removed cap and lockout of that level. plenty to do, and if it is not enough for you, you clearly have enough time that you shouldn't be playing just one game or you should just level a character for each class like you would have done in every other MMO.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

Yeah, no. I already have trouble playing enough to cap myths, I don't want to suddenly be obligated to spend 3-4x more time per week on the game just capping myths for various classes.

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Originally Posted by Milmoko_Gemoko

Er no, I have a life: friends, family, a job and a string of meaningless hook-ups to have.
I dont wanna have spend every spare moment on this game just to get the armour/weapons to do one fight.

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What? Really? Sorry but you must be trolling or in the insane minority. Personally I want more reasons to log in more than 1-2 days a week.

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Originally Posted by necrosis

What? Really? Sorry but you must be trolling or in the insane minority.

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Add me to the insane minority too.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

Yeah, no. I already have trouble playing enough to cap myths, I don't want to suddenly be obligated to spend 3-4x more time per week on the game just capping myths for various classes.

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Originally Posted by Milmoko_Gemoko

Er no, I have a life: friends, family, a job and a string of meaningless hook-ups to have.
I dont wanna have spend every spare moment on this game just to get the armour/weapons to do one fight.

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then don't?

again this suggestion is for those who spend alot time on this game and dont want this to be a monday only game.im a causal player, but even im start seeing alot of my FC (who also playing causal as we all are full time workers or students) are thinking along the lines that the tome cap is detrimental to playing. hell, they on log on on mondays and tuesdays now and gone back to their previous mmos because we all exhausted all the content and they are bored. the tomes lockouts is hurting both the mmo lobbyist on causal players now. hell, the only reason why i havent follow route my FC member are taking is simply because i want all the relics (halfway there btw).we need more grind, not less.


NO we did not rush to endgame
YES we max out our dallies and all crafting classes
YES we have all our DoW/M in full D/L gear with several pieces of myth


i realized that a cap or a grind is needed to prevent everyone to breezing thru this game, but the way it is now is hurting everyone. making the tome cap based on character instead of class/job is seriously silly. anyways you guys arent the devs, so this argument between us is moot.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

Yeah, no. I already have trouble playing enough to cap myths, I don't want to suddenly be obligated to spend 3-4x more time per week on the game just capping myths for various classes.

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Why would you need to play more to cap them if there was a higher cap? Play as much as you are comfortable playing. The cap being set for individual classes wouldn't change a thing for you other than opening up some more options if you choose to take them.

Want more myth? make another character! problem solved. You even get an extra CT roll!

Main downside I can see is that the position I'm in now, a big chunk of my tomes towards cap from running coils on main, but there's nothing on main I need those tomes for, so they get spent on other classes. If those tomes were locked to main then they'd just build up and never get spent.

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Originally Posted by astrobearthe2nd

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Right now it takes 9 CT runs to cap myths every week. If they were to change the cap to per job and if a hardcore player were trying to cap every job every week, they'd have to run 81 CTs. Considering how long it takes to queue DF during most of the week, a hardcore player would almost need to be queueing every second of the day to fully cap. The solution then is to drop the amount of myths needed to cap per week. This means that instead of taking 2 weeks max to get 1 piece of myth gear, you'd be looking more at 3-4 weeks for the body/ leg pieces of myth gears at a minimum. You're way better off just making multiple chars and running coil on them rather than grinding myths then.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Want more myth? make another character! problem solved. You even get an extra CT roll!

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That beats the purpose of having the Armoury system. Genius.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

That beats the purpose of having the Armoury system. Genius.

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People wanting this change CLEARLY have extra time, I dont see the issue.

Seeing as we're getting a brand new set of tomes I don't see why they shouldn't just abolish the weekly cap now, as they are with the lockouts on Coil 1~5.

Same thing goes for CT while we're at it, I mean hell it's not even i90 gear.

SE said no already - It also defeats the purpose of lockouts. They're there to keep you playing and keep you busy until next patch.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

People wanting this change CLEARLY have extra time, I dont see the issue.

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Time isn't an issue afterall. It's about the capability to play all classes in one character.

In any case, SE was the first one to defeat the idea of Armoury System in the first place, by putting lockouts / caps.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

SE said no already - It also defeats the purpose of lockouts. They're there to keep you playing and keep you busy until next patch.

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Lockouts also defeats the purpose of Armoury System, see my post above.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

Why would you need to play more to cap them if there was a higher cap? Play as much as you are comfortable playing. The cap being set for individual classes wouldn't change a thing for you other than opening up some more options if you choose to take them.

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This isnt about higher caps but individual caps for every class. I cap myths every week because if I don't I will fall behind. Imagine feeling obligated to cap myths on several classes. Its too much of a time investment. Some of us don't want to play 8 hours a day.

You don't need full BiS gear to run endgame on a class... The armory system works fine. You can be T5 viable on a class in 2 weeks between EX Primal weps and accessories, CT gear, myth gear, and early Coil turns. All that would happen if it were per job is people would gear everything out and whine still. NO lockout would be worse.

ya I like the limits where they are. It forced me to do something other then play 90 hours a week and still have a Real life outside of gaming.

I agree 100% with the OP.

These caps and lockouts are pretty much ruining the entire point of the armory system. Especially now in PF groups, they require a unbalanced ilevel to perform easy task. Make my own group you say? If they see a low ilevel requirement, they don't join. So much for that.

Letting people gear up all the classes they leveled(not to mention the ones they already had leveled from 1.0, which could be EVERYTHING, thus nullifying the "too much time argument".) should be part of the game. If players want to AF+1 all the jobs they have, why not? It's a game they pay for and it's something they will enjoy. If you don't want to gear up all the classes you leveled, you don't have too. Basically the people disagreeing with the OP, don't enjoy other players doing things they can't/won't do, so they want to limit what other players actually do in the game. It's rather selfish not letting other players gear up something they leveled from a game they are paying for.

The way I see it is this, each three monthly update is presumably going to marginalise the previous content in so much as caps are removed on older encounters. They need to find a way to enable the most hardcore to gear up all jobs in existing content before the new updates land. If that means a twice weekly cap reset (Monday/Thursday) then so be it. By the time the new Coil/CT content lands we'll have been able to fully gear up three or four jobs max. Two resets a week would see more people utilising their content and by the time their next content cycle hits the players will be done with the old and ready to move on to the new.

Make it so S-E.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

ya I like the limits where they are. It forced me to do something other then play 90 hours a week and still have a Real life outside of gaming.

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So we should have limits imposed on us because you can't control yourself? O.o

Maybe if they also triple the cost for the tome gears. It is not here to limit the time you spend on to farm myth, but to limit the amount of myth gear you can buy weekly.

I doubt that myth tomes have still a limit in 2.2
With 2.2 new crafted gears are coming that are higher than ilevel 70, new tomes for the new max. ileves is coming and myth tomes would be like philo tomes.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

SE said no already - It also defeats the purpose of lockouts. They're there to keep you playing and keep you busy until next patch.

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Funny, I don't recall anything in the live letter about NOT removing the cap on Myth or CT Lockout. Aside from directly conflicting with the armory system, the caps on CT and Myth don't make any sense now that Coil 1~5 is having the lockouts removed - why unrestrict 1 set of gear but not the other? There won't even be a need to do CT since you can just keep farming Coil and bypass CT gear entirely (excluding certain builds, but that's assuming those builds aren't replaced by the new gear in 2.2. and they likely will be)

lol the reaction of somes people here are typical... "No because I don't want to have to..." You know that no one is forcing you to play more if you don't want to/can't.

Be honest & say something like "I don't want to be behind others on myths." instead. lol

Why make it all about yourself when it would not stop your progress

I think that everything is a little behind here for SE - I think they had to back-pedal a little bit in 2.1 to get CT out, fix WAR, and a couple other housekeeping items. Therefore, they couldn't allocate resources to pushing the game further. It seems like in 2.2 they are going to raise the bar on iLVLs, and I would bet that they are going to remove the myth cap.

My opinion is if they raise the iLVL to 110, give crafters i90 recipies, and remove the weekly lockouts on Coil (meaning you can spam til you have ALL the loots), then they need to remove the Myth cap an remove the 1 loot / week on CT. It would be abolutely silly if you could get AF2 armor/Turn 6-9 loot @ ilvl 110, but still be barred from i90 tome gear by a weekly cap.

I have a feeling they will deliver on that. SE is still well within my good graces of being patient with them, I like this game and I think they have proven they will be reactive and generally do a good job.

Say it with me: "Please look forward to it"

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Originally Posted by necrosis

What? Really? Sorry but you must be trolling or in the insane minority. Personally I want more reasons to log in more than 1-2 days a week.

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I'm not trolling or insane, I (and I'd guess many otheres who dont even come on the forums) dont have time to level to 50 on each class and then have to rerun content as that class to get tombs to solely equip that one class. Example: I finally expect to get my WAR to Lv50 sometime this month (I have been here since P3/P4 testing, so quite a while) and I have finally got enough tombes from Beast Quests to buy at least 1 to maybe 3 peices of Lv50 (Reverent Troll) Blue gear, imagine having to rerun all that as my PLD just to get its armour - it'd be awful since I've spent so long on my WAR I wanna be able to use my WAR to generate tombes.
Still havent completed 2.0 content/storyline yet alone moved on to 2.1 (other then Beast tribes).

I'm wondering if those wanting class lockouts are younger and have more time (less commitments/responsibility) then some of us slightly older players, no disrepect intended nor implication that you rushed the game, just saying priorities change by time you get to mid-late twenties lol.

The game has some major issues with the concept of "loot". The concept of "points" to purchase gear is an overused concept that we need to move farther away from. I certainly hope that we could see some sort of improvement on how we gain "loot" going forward. But if we are stuck with a new set of "currency" to purchase a new tier of our "AF" armor for another patch cycle it won't be the end of the world. However, having currency that is specific to a job/class is not okay. I completely understand why someone would want this but it goes against the very idea of having lockouts and currency caps. We are supposed to be limited in our gear acquisition and progression by this cap and being able to progress on ALL jobs at an equal rate is the very definition of "over-progression" in my mind.

We need SE/YoshiP/etc. to understand that the design of "loot" and the method it is acquired are both antiquated and unacceptable for the long term survival of the game. We need them to understand that "static" numbers on gear is the very antithesis of fun. We need them to understand that we want more than 2 or 3 options to choose from. We need them to understand that we want specialized gear and gear with interesting effects/stats on them like we had in FFXI. We need them to understand that there is a place for loot/advancement to take place both in content that is gated by "lockout" and gated by "time and effort" and by a combination of the two (crafting with materials only obtainable from end game activities, abjurations that require crafting). The beauty of older MMOs has been the option to use our time in the game in MANY different ways and not just limited to running instanced small group dungeons or larger group raids. One of the reasons why the granddaddy is losing numbers is because its endgame is made up of ONLY these two things. We deserve more. We want more.

Adding "Class Specific Caps" on currency only exacerbates the current end-game issues.

I don't get why people say that if there were no caps or higher caps they would be forced to play more. Who the hell is forcing you?

craft-loot-purchase, there are multiple ways to obtain gear so having a system in which the "limit" is based per class/job makes no sense.

Takea look at the current content, if you think you should be able to gear all jobs to i90 at the same pace then you are looking at the game wrong.

i70=starter gear, easy to get, to gear all classes with but you don't have to gear all classes with it.

Relic=Main class combo with your i70 gear gets you througha good bunch of content.
Extreme Weapons=Obtain using another job/class relic weapon and bam another i90 weapon for another job and not the one you played as.
Coil tier 5=random weapon that is the strongest, but also random so it's hard to rely on it.

With weapons you can see it like this
Relic=Easy
Extreme=Skill
Coil=Skill/luck

Then with dungeons we have the 4 man i60, Philosophy i70, CT i80 and then coil i90, mytho i90

4 man dungeons i60=can be done multiple times, loot is random
philo=no limit to how much you can obtain and can choose gear
CT=i80 gear but you can only obtain 1 piece a week, but you are guaranteed one piece as long as you continue to do it
Coil=i90 gear but you can only do each area once and if your loot doesn't drop then tough luck
mytho=450 cap, takes time to obtain but you can choose what you want.

To an extent the balance is there, if you are seeing mytho as "have to get this" then you are looking at it wrong.

It's completly possible to gear all classes as it is now but you can't expect everything to be i90 at once.

You want to have WAR and WHM geared then do the following.

Obtain relic for the one you play most, then with said relic +1 do extreme and obtain the WHM i90 weapon.

With the 900 mytho you saved getting the WHM primal weapon use it to invest in gear for your warrior

If your warrior is your most geared then when you do CT focus on getting i80 gear for your WHM

In coil if you are doing it witha static make an agreement on looting, if your war dons a good amount of i90 then try to greed on whm gear

It's all about balance, when you take a step back and see the variety currently offered you'll realize it is possible to gear up multiple jobs at once, it's just that their ilevels won't all be the same.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Lockouts also defeats the purpose of Armoury System, see my post above.

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Progression pacing > whatever misconception you have of the armoury system.