Buff Some Aspects of The Game to Teach Class Mechanics

It has came to my concern that most people under utilize the skills offered to them in their jobs. I have been in many primal instances lately and noticed people not being able to play their class well and I attribute it to the fact that the single player modes are too forgiving, thus, people facerolling them and shoving aside some of the more important skills from their jobs.

For example: Mages who only use blizzard to conserve MP, paladins who do not use their defensive CDs and taxing healers too much, whm and sch who dont use benediction or lustrate (Some healers dont even know what is a debuff), then complaining they cant get the tank up on a dmg spike.

SUGGESTION:
Make single player modes more difficult forcing players to maximise the potential of their characters so that they can better support their group in terms of group play. (At the same time, they do not hinder people's progression by learning in an instance)

One way is in class quest, where instances mimic dungeon experiences. In case of a white mage class quest, npc tanks get hit so hard from a certain skill they are forced to use benediction. Or DPS instances, where if a stun is not executed properly, the duty fails (helps people not putting stun in their rotation in fights where stuns are necessary).

And in case a player finds to much frustration not being able to clear a class quest instance, hopefully a guide is available somewhere.

Who are you to say how we play lol. Just because we don't play to your expectations doesn't mean you get to say oh make the game harder LOL. But seriously if you don't like how someone is playing use Party Finder set your rules and requirements. Problem Solved.

I would suggest making this feature something optional. You can get a reward for completing it. Nothing too fanciful, maybe a job-specific emote, a little minion resembling the job you beat the content for, or even something to use for the Glamour/Vanity system they have in place for the future. I only say a reward to give someone incentive to do the quest, having a reward is by no means a must have.

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Originally Posted by LazyMemories

But seriously if you don't like how someone is playing use Party Finder set your rules and requirements. Problem Solved.

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Use PF just to find people who understand their skill sets? That's kind of sad. What does that look like, anyway? "Ifrit HM - Need BLM who knows what Transpose does"

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

Use PF just to find people who understand their skill sets? That's kind of sad. What does that look like, anyway? "Ifrit HM - Need BLM who knows what Transpose does"

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meaing know your role have exp. Nuff said

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Originally Posted by SooChe

SUGGESTION:
Make single player modes more difficult forcing players to maximise the potential of their characters so that they can better support their group in terms of group play. (At the same time, they do not hinder people's progression by learning in an instance)

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This isn't likely going to happen because the game is designed to be played leisurely, and making solo content more difficult---or rather, make it present any kind of obstacle, would be against their design philosophy.

It's a game that you play just because you feel like playing, not for satisfaction nor for challenges. That's the product positioning for this game.

I guess I must really suck at this game since I actually had trouble with some of the solo instances. For example, the level 20 and 30 Arcanist quests took me at least 3 tries each to pull off. And the second two tries were made WITH the Echo buff.

unless people level a class all through FATE they cant know nothing about their skills. just dont know well as a fresh lv50 player i think. it's nothing serious if they can practice from easier dungeons and listen to suggestions =)

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Originally Posted by DarkStar

I guess I must really suck at this game since I actually had trouble with some of the solo instances. For example, the level 20 and 30 Arcanist quests took me at least 3 tries each to pull off. And the second two tries were made WITH the Echo buff.

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^This. I had soo much trouble with that quest - 'difficulty' amounted to just throwing hundreds of mobs at you with little means of defense. After something like five attempts the Echo buffed me so high I managed to get past it not by skill but simply having stats buffed so high that I was able to survive the onslaught.

Anyway, technically Guildhests are supposed to be what the OP is suggesting - training for party mechanics, but really, you can teach people til exhaustion and they still won't 'get it', either through stupidity or just arrogance/stubbornness. And lets face it, that's not SE's fault is it?

I don't think the solo content needs to be made harder. As mentioned some of the quests can be hard already. And with the echo there is no guarantee people will learn better tactics to beat them.
From the threads on marking mobs, I'd like more training quests without combat. Something with an NPC guide that forces you to use certain skills in a certain order.

Isn't teaching players mechanics what Guildhest is for?

Just adapt them to work similar to Hamlet Defense in 1.0 as far as the reward goes; You have a list of various actions which provide bonus EXP/Gil after completing the Guildhest, based on level.

Things like; "Players marked mobs", "Players avoided AoE", "Lancer/Pugilist took advantage of directional bonuses on their abilities", "Healer used Esuna/Leeches", etc. etc..

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Isn't teaching players mechanics what Guildhest is for?

Just adapt them to work similar to Hamlet Defense in 1.0 as far as the reward goes; You have a list of various actions which provide bonus EXP/Gil after completing the Guildhest, based on level.

Things like; "Players marked mobs", "Players avoided AoE", "Lancer/Pugilist took advantage of directional bonuses on their abilities", "Healer used Esuna/Leeches", etc. etc..

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The problem with guildheist is, a fairly seasoned player will overcome the mistakes of others. "Stand in an AOE? ok.. I will heal you." "not tanking some mobs and healer gets aggro? healer tanks some mobs." Am just concerned about maximising potentials. Most of the whm quests is about DPSing anyway.

But I liked the suggestion of making it optional. at least people can do what they want.

Just trying to create a WIN - WIN situation, and decrease the chances of failed duty and the amount of frustrated people for getting kicked, since the game is evolving and older players sometimes would not want to help. Myself, I am just started with the ex modes anyway.

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Originally Posted by LazyMemories

Who are you to say how we play lol. Just because we don't play to your expectations doesn't mean you get to say oh make the game harder LOL. But seriously if you don't like how someone is playing use Party Finder set your rules and requirements. Problem Solved.

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Actually, I have met many nice players in the game. All of those are people who will accept anyone one in their party, including myself. Would stick to the last second of any run. Played enough MMOs to care for any progression on my own game. Afterall, real life is more important, and its playing with many different people that makes my day. These people including myself, usually would like to learn more from others, but time doesn't allot that, hence my suggestion.

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Originally Posted by SooChe

whm who dont use benediction.

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In all fairness, if everyone is doing their job (healers healing, others dodging) you shouldn't actually need Benediction. It's more of an "oops I forgot to heal" emergency skill.

However something I see under utilised when I switch to Tank/DPS is Divine Seal. I'll rarely see a WHM use this despite how incredibly useful it is.

more instanced battles solve it with little complex mechanics

as outside world fights doesnt require any skill

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Originally Posted by SooChe

The problem with guildheist is, a fairly seasoned player will overcome the mistakes of others. "Stand in an AOE? ok.. I will heal you." "not tanking some mobs and healer gets aggro? healer tanks some mobs." Am just concerned about maximising potentials. Most of the whm quests is about DPSing anyway.

But I liked the suggestion of making it optional. at least people can do what they want.

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Experienced players will always overcome the mistakes of others, to a degree. If they make it as transparent as possible even fairly inexperienced players should be able to know what to do, perhaps having it as part of the Duty List as optional objectives based on your current class. For a Lv15 Guildhest something like Pugilist could have;
-Use Bootshine from behind the target.
-Use True Strike from behind the target.
-Use Snap Punch from your targets flank.
-Use Touch of Death.

Hopefully that would lead to people thinking "Why does it want me to do this?" and I'll never see Lancers not keeping Heavy Thrust up again. The additional rewards for fulfilling such objectives would hopefully make Guildhests less pathetic, too. Thinking about it, they could just make the rewards personal; tank isn't tanking? No problem, you still fulfilled the additional objectives for your class so you still get the reward.

There are more people in the MMO community than just the ones in here that cannot play their classes. A lot of the problem comes from the WoW community where it doesn't matter if you don't do your role because there are so many other people in party. A lot of the bad play I see makes me think of the bad play from WoW, so I assume the two are related.

It's not the game at fault, FFXIV does a lot to teach people their roles. The problem lies with people who think they know how to play, they turn off the Help notices because they've played an MMO before, they think that they don't need to be taught how to play this new game. They go through the game thinking it is WoW.

Just my opinion on the matter. There's nothing the developers can do about this behaviour because it is the people not the teachers, if people refuse to listen they will not listen.

I'd argue that the people who don't know how to properly play their class are the ones who probably did nothing but Fates to level to 50. So, unless you're suggesting we nerf the levelling system to ensure that can't happen I don't think there will ever be a proper solution to this problem. The people who suck at using their skills to the fullest are the ones who never needed to use them in the first place, and with existing dungeon content, that's rarely the issue.

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Originally Posted by SooChe

And in case a player finds to much frustration not being able to clear a class quest instance, hopefully a guide is available somewhere.

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The player get the echo buff if he can't clear a quest.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I'd argue that the people who don't know how to properly play their class are the ones who probably did nothing but Fates to level to 50. So, unless you're suggesting we nerf the levelling system to ensure that can't happen I don't think there will ever be a proper solution to this problem. The people who suck at using their skills to the fullest are the ones who never needed to use them in the first place, and with existing dungeon content, that's rarely the issue.

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SE don't need to slow down the level speed.
They can do it like with the 2.15 storyline and put in a requirement for an endlevel dungeon, where you need to finish the last guildhest to unlock the endgame dungeon.

A lot of the class and job quests I feel are what teach you how to use your abilities. The one that immediately springs to mind is the THM quest with all the adds that silence you. I tried twice before I remembered that Scathe was instacast and then beat it with no problem. Those quests challenge you to use the abilities you gained since the last one.

Personally I find the biggest problem to be the UI of the game.

Normally I have my hand on top of WASD so I can perform some movement, and I have access to my numbered keys for actions. But pressing CTRL+keys is so awkward I tend to use the mouse to click on them instead. But I have been planning to maybe remap those to the F-keys instead so I can easier click them without trying to press multiple buttons. But they are still a bit far off.

Maybe if I dived into macros I could get something more efficient.



So what am I trying to say? We don't need harder content to make people get better, we need to improve their setup so they can easier access the things they should be using.

Some of the class quests can teach you specific things to do, such as the 15 THM quest teaching you to cast Sleep on enemies to bypass them, or the 25 GLD quest putting you against an opponent that will kill you if you don't interrupt their buff. However, I feel like we should have more stuff like this, if not for outright teaching, then simply for better your ability to play a class.

I'd really like to see an arena opened up--maybe an instance in the Wolve's Den--where you can take on a bunch of class-specific trials that become more difficult as you progress through the list. It will only be you and occasionally some friendly NPCs you'll be fighting with, and each trial teaches you either a specific role your class must fulfill or a nuance in their playstyle. They could probably come up with some pretty inventive things, and heck, maybe even make a separate set of trials for playing as a class rather than a job--test your ingenuity with cross-class skills.

As for a reward, a minion or perhaps a unique ring for your class? Something small, but well worth the effort.