How Do Extreme Primal Weapons Affect Gearing?

Does it make sense to buy Zeniths anymore?

9 Extreme weapons can be acquired in 9 weeks, and they have the potential to save you 18 weeks of myth farming, since you'll be putting myth into armor instead of weapons.

I think that by the time you have a decent amount of myth/allagan gear, an extreme weapon will still leave you more than prepared for any content in the game, so does it make sense to throw away 2 weeks of myth on a weapon, when you're going to replace that weapon with allagan, anyway?

Remember that if you're going into T5 even in the mid ilvl80s, you are already over-geared for the content at hand. Is an optimal secondary stat increase (in some cases) ever really worth more than 26-31 main stat put into myth armor?

I can agree that getting your first Zenith makes sense, because people who form Extreme Primal/Coil parties can be really picky.

I have both Zenith & Extreme lances, and I honestly can't tell the difference in performance, even in Turns 4 & 5 (I have enough accuracy to make up for the acc loss going from Zenith to Extreme).

Depends on the job imo.

I still need relic bow on brd for the later turns in coil because of the severe hit to my acc wearing Elfin.

As well, certain jobs stats aren't so great on the EX weapons. The healer ones, for example, have their stats basically switched (whm EX has crit, while sch EX has sp. speed).

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Originally Posted by Allyra

I still need relic bow on brd for the later turns in coil because of the severe hit to my acc wearing Elfin.

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Can that deficiency be fixed in under 900 myth, though? And is it worth it to switch out an accessory for more accuracy, and keep the hard-hitting Elfin bow?

I'm certainly not shooting for BiS on every job, I'm talking about (more than) good enough to pass T5, and get your allagan, which I can only assume is BiS for all jobs.

I plan to buy the Zeniths for any classes that I consider my "main" because I believe we will need to have the Zenith to "+2" the weapon or whatever they plan on calling it. The Primals are great for alts and like others have already said they allow faster gearing, but I am hoping there is a master plan here.

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Originally Posted by Rasabox

I believe we will need to the Zenith to "+2" the weapon or whatever they plan on calling it.

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That makes sense, I'd do the same in for my favorite jobs in that case.

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

Can that deficiency be fixed in under 900 myth, though?

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Nope. A lot of the acc stuff has to come from primals, allagan, etc.

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And is it worth it to switch out an accessory for more accuracy, and keep the hard-hitting Elfin bow?

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debated currently. However, it takes quite a bit of time to get the gear to make elfin better to use in coil (it's awesome for everything else since everything else doesn't really need a lot of acc), so it is worth it to get the zenith in the meantime.

Sounds like DRG is just spoiled with so many accuracy options, and I'm biased XD

Personally, I can't get passed titan extreme and I struggle with Gardua extreme so for me it makes
more sense to buy the zenith for classes instead of the Extreme weapons.

For the ones without any changes in accuracy, except WHM, it really doesn't matter which you choose. Its like the difference between Relic and Titan weapons. BLM, SCH, DRG (Acc difference isn't big enough to matter in this case)...really doesn't matter which they choose

For the ones with different Acc, the difference does matter. For example, Warrior; due to the WAR's "natural" Acc deficiency on gear, Dual Haken is just better. BRD needs their +1s in Coil. And so on.

WHM is a little different; PIE instead of Acc; if the WHM needs PIE or wants that buffer...Omnirod is better...but if not...+1 is.

PLD is also a little different; their EX weapon isn't really a good tanking weapon since it has no parry, so its better for an OT...so really, for them having the +1 and EX isn't a bbad idea, so they can switch depending on the situation.


Obviously, this is my opinion and for those not looking to min/max a bit.

EDIT: Just for reference, I have 3 EX weapons so far: BLM, WAR and WHM. I'll probably Zenith Tyrus eventually, esp if you need to for the +2. Maybe even Bravura. But beyond those two, and Gae Bolg (my main is DRG) I'm just going to get EX weapons for the fact that they're i90, until I can farm the Allagan anyway

It's actually really great depending the job you want to play.
By example,my main job is DRG,when i saw the stats of the primal spear i didn't took it ofc.
But my second job is monk and 3rd job is bard(and may be 4th class is BLM but not geared enough for coil so...)so the EX weapons are really great cause it helps a lot for being geared faster.However,without the good items for bard by example,i don't have enough ACC to do coil same for Mnk.
So yeah it's kinda "anoying"that we can have those weapons but it clearly won't help any "new" lvl 50.Most of them lack accuracy or don't have great stats and need the 3 primals defeated to get one of them.

It varies per job. If you are really trying to min/max and/or not take really big hits to accuracy a lot of the Primal weapons
are either useless (Dragoon's spear - skill speed is bad compared to Zenith +1, so I hear) or you need items from Turn 5 to make up for the loss in accuracy (Bard's Bow).

I know the Monk, Black Mage, and Warrior weapons are all good. The Bard is good with Turn 5 gear for acc.
I think the Scholar and Summoner are meh. Dragoon is meh. Paladin meh. White Mage is apparently bad.

This is just what I've seen opinion-wise from various people. In the end it's up to you.

For bards it's entirely up to you actually. I have a config for 472 accuracy that I run it on T5 that is item level 87.5. It's already considered overgeared for T5 so it works for me. I started game as a dragoon, started later than others and it was until around November or so I switched to main a Bard so in terms of gearing, I'm lagging even further behind (but thanks to Ultima and Primals, it's easier to catch up).

For me I generally will upgrade the relic to zenith LAST unless there is an absolute reason for me to do it first. Like for example, for Paladins, Curtana Zenith should be obtained if you are main tanking but still, I'll get the main body myth pieces up first before spending it on Zenith. Get the more important pieces first.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

For bards it's entirely up to you actually. I have a config for 472 accuracy that I run it on T5 that is item level 87.5. It's already considered overgeared for T5 so it works for me. I started game as a dragoon, started later than others and it was until around November or so I switched to main a Bard so in terms of gearing, I'm lagging even further behind (but thanks to Ultima and Primals, it's easier to catch up).

For me I generally will upgrade the relic to zenith LAST unless there is an absolute reason for me to do it first. Like for example, for Paladins, Curtana Zenith should be obtained if you are main tanking but still, I'll get the main body myth pieces up first before spending it on Zenith. Get the more important pieces first.

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Well...the thing is, except for BRD, PLD and WAR...the weapon IS the most important upgrade for a new 50...for an alt, not so much, esp one who can get EX weapons now

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Well...the thing is, except for BRD, PLD and WAR...the weapon IS the most important upgrade for a new 50...for an alt, not so much, esp one who can get EX weapons now

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I can't really comment on what's the experience like for a brand new player with a brand new toon leveling up his/her first 50 though.. But I guess if it was me, I might still spend myth to get by body pieces first before opting for a Zenith upgrade?

Cos the way I see, in patch 2.1 upgrading is rather easy. Say after you've completed your storyline, (assuming you have a decent play time and decent learning speed), within the first week of clearing story you could probably farm up your full DL set, get an i80 CT body piece for a big stat upgrade and your 450 myth tomes. Within the same week or the following week you could be well finish training and clearing Primal HM for your i80 relics and I think they do fine for now.

For the 2nd week, since you have 900 myth and another chance at CT, it largely depends on your job. If say the body/pants isn't your BiS slot, you could take another CT body/pants and spend the 900 myth in terms of 1x AF2 body parts for 495 and 1x AF2 accessory for another 325 (if both of them are BiS and worth to spend). If so, you already have 1x i80 relic weapon, 2x CT i80 body parts, 1x AF2 body part and 1x AF2 accessory VS a i90 relic +1 and just 2 CT parts.

Of course I think there's no real right or wrong on this. If the new player is an experienced MMO player, bothers to read up and do some calculation on min-maxing then what I've suggested may be better. No doubt that apart from Bards, most jobs have a +2 WD upgrade which is rather significant, but if you do it right, the extra main and secondary stats you get from buying 1x AF2 body part and 1x AF2 accessory may offer you enough to match the WD upgrade to Zenith. Also for the fact that body parts offer you increment in defensive stats and buying 2 AF2 upgrades raise your ilvl further (yes, skills matter more but sometimes in PF party they just have quite a high ilvl req) so it allows you to enter PF training parties to start on Ultima HM/Primal EX faster.

Ultimately it doesn't really make a hell lot of difference, but if you're a player like me who at times really hate how ugly DL gears look - man, look at tanking gears and those ugly crowls, I'd rather learn to play better with my i80 weapon for the meantime while looking better with AF2/CT gears :p

Yes like everyone said. Really depends on the class. Dragoons one is just terrible but it doesn't hurt to do a weekly clear just to get the weapons. I totally skipped dragoon and got the staff and bow.

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

I know the Monk, Black Mage, and Warrior weapons are all good. The Bard is good with Turn 5 gear for acc.
I think the Scholar and Summoner are meh. Dragoon is meh. Paladin meh. White Mage is apparently bad.

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SMN one is decent at best, not better then Zenith but if you're a fresh SMN in Coil and NEED the accuracy, you have an i90 book with +37 of it, otherwise Zenith is still better. PLD's shield is pretty decent from what I hear and BLM's shield goes great with Allagan Scepter. SCH's is kinda bad because you're trading DET for PIE (which you don't really need either but DET seems like the best of both worlds) and WHM... idc if it has PIE or not, the crit (and design) makes me not wanna touch it. And DRG with Skill Speed? lol!

Other then that the MNK one is debatable (SkS vs Det/crit build), WAR is amazing and BLM is debatable (SpS vs Det/crit)

Im getting Holy Lance next week. Dont feel like waiting for zenith. Going to use the myth to keep gearing my mnk (which can share accessories so it's nice). Yea Holy Lance has SS instead of crit, but it still has the same WD, Strength, and Vit increase from i80 to i90 as a zenith. Those matter much more than +26 crit.

Got my hellish claws and i love em. Elfin Bow as well.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

Yes like everyone said. Really depends on the class. Dragoons one is just terrible but it doesn't hurt to do a weekly clear just to get the weapons. I totally skipped dragoon and got the staff and bow.

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Actually, the stat weight of Holy Lance is higher than that of Zenith ^^

STR 1.0
CRT 0.184
SS 0.152

Holy Lance - 37 x .152 = 5.624
Zenith - 26 x .184 = 4.784

Mind blown, right? I've been using Holy Lance for the past few days..... I can't tell the damn difference. TOTALLY worth not having to spend 900 tomes.

Went straight to Holy Lance, 900 myth can be used for alot of things, 2 i90 accessories, 1 i90 armor part and 1 i90 accessories, alot of better options rather than the +26 crit the Zenith has to offer.

But if you don't have something that you spend your myth on, then by all means.

i think they are great because they allow you to focus on body part and you can upgrade to zenith as last upgrade

[QUOTE=JetBrooks;1855532]Actually, the stat weight of Holy Lance is higher than that of Zenith ^^

STR 1.0
CRT 0.184
SS 0.152

Holy Lance - 37 x .152 = 5.624
Zenith - 26 x .184 = 4.784

Mind blown, right? I've been using Holy Lance for the past few days..... I can't tell the damn difference. TOTALLY worth not having to spend 900 tomes.[/QUOTE

Yes. I did the same research as you before I decided to just get the bow and staff. But I saw in the rotation reborn thread that there wasn't a bis list with holy Lance in it. So I will be getting my lance next week. I think it looks awesome though.

Unless there's a big difference, it's not worth ever getting Zenith weapons anymore, obviously :P That depends on each job, though.

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Originally Posted by snowybell

Yes. I did the same research as you before I decided to just get the bow and staff. But I saw in the rotation reborn thread that there wasn't a bis list with holy Lance in it. So I will be getting my lance next week. I think it looks awesome though.

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This is due to the large accuracy gain from Zenith, it allows you to equip more DTR/CRT gear on your other pieces, while maintaining your accuracy cap. Once you get the Allagan spear, this flip flops, more DTR/CRT now comes from your weapon, while some of the other gear is switched out for more accuracy.

The Holy Lance is better than Zenith ONLY when you have too much accuracy gear, or accuracy doesn't matter in your current fight. For example, I have too much accuracy gear right now, I don't have a choice to swap out my Wyrm Helm for Allagan Visor, so it's still best for me to use Holy Lance until I get the visor (which gains DTR/CRT but loses accuracy).

You will notice that the Holy Lance IS BiS for the 0 accuracy build if you don't have your Allagan yet (what you should be using when you don't need your accuracy capped).

In a perfect world, a DRG will have 3 gear sets:
1. 0 Acc - Holy Lance/Allagan, Full DTR/CRT gear
2. Turns 1-2 Acc (i don't remember, 440s?) - Zenith/Allagan, balanced ACC/DTR/CRT gear
3. Turns 4-5 Acc (mid 460s~) - Zenith/Allagan, balanced ACC/DTR/CRT gear

I really like the warrior and monk primal weapons, kinda regretted spending 900 myth on the Omnilex Zenith however. Could've spent it on the body pieces for my monk. -.-

The Bard Extreme Bow may require several piece adjustments IF you're planning to do Coil Turn 5 and keep a 99-100% hit rate. If not Turn 5, you'll have more freedom to equip pieces without Accuracy such as +CRIT and +DET pieces.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

I really like the warrior and monk primal weapons, kinda regretted spending 900 myth on the Omnilex Zenith however. Could've spent it on the body pieces for my monk. -.-

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Yeah man, this is what I want people to consider. Your EX Primal wep is probably good enough (this doesn't mean perfect, it means good enough =p) until you get Allagan.

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

Yeah man, this is what I want people to consider. Your EX Primal wep is probably good enough (this doesn't mean perfect, it means good enough =p) until you get Allagan.

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Well in my defense, I didn't think I'd ever clear Titan EX with how things were looking back then lol. So yeah, if you can't beat EX primals, zenith the relic.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Well in my defense, I didn't think I'd ever clear Titan EX with how things were looking back then lol. So yeah, if you can't beat EX primals, zenith the relic.

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For sure. EX wasn't a thing when I got mine =p

I love having ex weapons in the game. Prior to 2.1 I was pretty reluctant to play my alt chars since they were using i80 weps at best. Now that ex weps are in the game though, I don’t have any issues going into t5/extremes with my alts, since I’m not worried about my gear being up to par. And it makes gearing them up easier/faster, since I don’t have to wait two weeks per wep.

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

White Mage is apparently bad.

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Eh, I don't really like the Crit/Piety combo on the primal weapon compared to the Spell Speed/Determination on Thyrus, but WHM secondaries are pretty minor, and remember, it's not one Primal weapon vs. Zenith, it's Primal weapon and 900 myth vs. Zenith. You can get a decent primary stat boost with 900 myth, plus some extra secondaries (and vit if you get left side items). If I didn't have Zenith already (WHM is my main), I don't know that I'd go out of my way to get it until I was pretty much kitted out otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Menae

Eh, I don't really like the Crit/Piety combo on the primal weapon compared to the Spell Speed/Determination on Thyrus, but WHM secondaries are pretty minor, and remember, it's not one Primal weapon vs. Zenith, it's Primal weapon and 900 myth vs. Zenith. You can get a decent primary stat boost with 900 myth, plus some extra secondaries (and vit if you get left side items). If I didn't have Zenith already (WHM is my main), I don't know that I'd go out of my way to get it until I was pretty much kitted out otherwise.

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I personally like the PIE on the Omnirod; unless things go south that extra MP means I don't need to rely on a BRD in long fights (Primals/T4) and we can bring another DPS in and get faster kills.

Yeah, the secondaries on Tyrus Zenith are better...but don't stats for WHM go MND > PIE > DET = SS > Crit?