New 15 minute timer is awful for Primals/Bosses

Why do this? I just got done with a Ultima HM where the OT was still wearing lvl 49 stuff. Obviously we wiped a few times...quickly, and had to just sit there for 10 minutes waiting to abandon. I can understand dungeons, but please change it back to 5 minutes for Primals/Boss instances!

Only if you promise not to initiate Vote Abandon after every 2 wipes.

No, this prevents abuse.

This is lame. It's a vote. How can it be abused if half of the party wants out?

This was a change?

What else was changed/added this small patch?

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

This was a change?

What else was changed/added this small patch?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1849213

feel free to drop the duty if it wasn't full i90 people, or you dislike members, or anything else!

You want people to have a specific IL, use Party Finder.

Vote Abandon set @ 15 minutes vs 5 minutes is good as it gives people time to try to practice and try to get it right instead o just fleeing like a mouse from a hawk.

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Originally Posted by Johnist

You want people to have a specific IL, use Party Finder.

Vote Abandon set @ 15 minutes vs 5 minutes is good as it gives people time to try to practice and try to get it right instead o just fleeing like a mouse from a hawk.

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Agreed. Now people can't leave after one or two wipes without suffering from the 30 minute penalty.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

This is lame. It's a vote. How can it be abused if half of the party wants out?

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This. It's lame in general; I don't think they expected players to like this change.

Please change it back to 5 min to vote abandon. Often you can tell after 2 wipes that your group can't beat something. For example if the same person dies to landslide twice in a row on Titan EX you know you aren't going to beat the fight due to that one person. With 15 min vote abandon someone now has to take the 30 min debuff just so everyone else can leave.

Whhhhhattt , you mean now i gotta play titan ex with a party that failed before 1st jump for 15 minutes??

To be fair, make it at least 10 minutes, 15 is too much.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

This. It's lame in general; I don't think they expected players to like this change.

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They expect people to like anything they do, true story.

/1.0 flashback

learn to play one's class I don't have a problem with this adjustment now only if they can make a penalty to the tanks that keep dropping duty finder then it will be a better experience

So basically if you go in and someone decides to afk in the dungeon, before you had to wait 5mns now it's 15?

Great...

:/

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Originally Posted by AjoraOak

They expect people to like anything they do, true story.

/1.0 flashback

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Firstly, 1.0 was rushed out to try to "compete" with Cataclysm, they didn't expect us to like it lol, they wanted to meet a quota and try to beat competition. Secondly, this does prevent abuse because people always vote abandon after 1 or 2 wipes, sometimes sh*t happens - Then you have trolls on the NA/EU datacenter (and yes I've only seen this happen on NA/EU datacenter) that vote abandon randomly once you reach behemoth or tita..acheron which sometimes catches people off guard and they accidentally hit yes or a whole team does it just to troll the run.

It's a good change It also promotes people actually trying stuff rather than "whelp we wiped, why even bother, no one shot, fail group, bye!"

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Originally Posted by Velev

So basically if you go in and someone decides to afk in the dungeon, before you had to wait 5mns now it's 15?

Great...

:/

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It's only for Vote Abandon, not kick as far as I've seen. If someone wants to leave that badly they can leave and take the 30 min lockout.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Only if you promise not to initiate Vote Abandon after every 2 wipes.

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Yep, this OP is why you can't have nice things :P

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

This is lame. It's a vote. How can it be abused if half of the party wants out?

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well when the half that votes to abandon is the ones with short queue times, yea it's been getting abused.

I like it, I hate it people Vote Abandon right when a wipe. People keep expecting a one shot Primal, especially the extreme one. Tank and healer not so much, but a DPS have to wait 30 minutes for it.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

This is lame. It's a vote. How can it be abused if half of the party wants out?

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Because half the party is two healers and two tanks. There's no downside to them quitting as they can just queue again and get another instance swiftly, whereas the DPS could be queuing for anywhere up to an hour.

It's annoying... you get players completely under geared and the group has to wait 15 minutes to get out bc that person or persons won't leave.

It's not abuse if half the group wants out.

If more than half the party doesn't want to be there, and is just going to wait it out anyway, I don't see the point is in making people wait around.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

If more than half the party doesn't want to be there, and is just going to wait it out anyway, I don't see the point is in making people wait around.

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To make people give an honest try. Trying to abandon after 1 or 2 failures isn't an honest try.

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Originally Posted by Velev

So basically if you go in and someone decides to afk in the dungeon, before you had to wait 5mns now it's 15?

Great...

:/

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That would be a vote kick not an abandon. Unless vote kick was changed to 15 too.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

This is lame. It's a vote. How can it be abused if half of the party wants out?

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Cause maybe encounters are suppose to last MORE than 5 minutes before calling quits

You should be able to tell if a group is hopeless or not within 5 mins really.

I.E Dying in Titan HM in the first phase = not worth it to continue.

oh no!! people will get more practice if you keep pulling and get better!! cant have that! need my vote abandon after 1 wipe!!

15 mins is too long! too much time to type out what they did wrong and help them fix it! every man for himself!!

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Originally Posted by Vivejun

oh no!! people will get more practice if you keep pulling and get better!! cant have that! need my vote abandon after 1 wipe!!

15 mins is too long! too much time to type out what they did wrong and help them fix it! every man for himself!!

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Exactly. Everyone is this game is so concerned with bad players but are never willing to give said players tips or time to improve. If you help these people, you'd run into less "bads" as you guys like to refer to them as.

Why not have it so that a Vote Abandon after 5 minutes and before 15 minutes has to be a super-majority (3/4 of the party, or rather 6/7 because the initiator doesn't vote) in a full party, and unanimous in a light party? That way if everyone agrees that it's hopeless they can all vote to just get out, but still prevent some jerks from trying to abuse it. (Just an idea, I have no idea whether it would actually work or not.)

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

It's annoying... you get players completely under geared and the group has to wait 15 minutes to get out bc that person or persons won't leave.

It's not abuse if half the group wants out.

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Make it 3/4 or 7/8 of the party and it should be ok.

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

(3/4 of the party, or rather 6/7 because the initiator doesn't vote)

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The initiator voted with initiating it

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Originally Posted by Lafiele

Cause maybe encounters are suppose to last MORE than 5 minutes before calling quits

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Lol. If people are wiping within the first 5 minutes I don't wanna waste my time. There's no way that party will make it through the fight with just "practice" from that one run. I've been in way too many hopeful practice parties until the timer runs out to know that it never works.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Please change it back to 5 min to vote abandon. Often you can tell after 2 wipes that your group can't beat something. For example if the same person dies to landslide twice in a row on Titan EX you know you aren't going to beat the fight due to that one person. With 15 min vote abandon someone now has to take the 30 min debuff just so everyone else can leave.

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Not really no. Got my 1st Moggle Mog kill yesterday in such a case. 2 wipes under 15 minutes, a dps bailed out because "full il90 can't fail with noobs" (true quoting). Then we got an other dps and one-shot it. Also, there are no penalties for leaving a premade group. if you expect a swift completion or a quick dismissal in case it doesn't work, use PF

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

Lol. If people are wiping within the first 5 minutes I don't wanna waste my time. There's no way that party will make it through the fight with just "practice" from that one run. I've been in way too many hopeful practice parties until the timer runs out to know that it never works.

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Strange, Ultima learning parties often wipe in under 5 minutes. Yet most succeed within the 60 minutes time limit

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

Lol. If people are wiping within the first 5 minutes I don't wanna waste my time. There's no way that party will make it through the fight with just "practice" from that one run. I've been in way too many hopeful practice parties until the timer runs out to know that it never works.

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That's not necessarily true. Your experience isn't everyone's experience. I've definitely been in groups that have been a little hopeless from the get go, but I've also been in groups that have learned from practice, even with people who died early on, so saying it never works isn't really true. I've seen it work plenty of times. Some people need to learn by wiping several times, and seeing the mechanics first hand a few times before really getting the hang of it, not everyone learns at the same pace, unfortunately. And the duty finder pretty much exists for people new to the fight to try their hand at things, or so it seems.

But then again I have pretty much limitless patience for wipes, and I like to help people learn and get through content, even if it takes several tries, or the timer runs out, so I'm personally happy with the change, though I can see where others might find it bothersome.

You can't force people to want to play with you just by changing the game to force people to stay with each other. Sometimes I wonder how many of you interact with people on a normal basis when you think simply sticking people in a room for 10 extra minutes is going to do a damn thing. People are just going to "DC" or votekick someone random instead of vote abandoning.

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To make people give an honest try. Trying to abandon after 1 or 2 failures isn't an honest try.

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Bingo.

Suck it up, complainers. People jamming the vote abandon button after one little mishap was infinitely more annoying than this ever will be.

The only thing i could trade the 15 minutes timer for is the requirement of EVERY SINGLE PLAYER having to accept tha abandon vote.

Do you think this will make people want to hang around and try to function instead of what they were doing previously: carrying you?

No, now you'll just see people go back to AFKing after 2 or so fights. Guess what? There is no penalty if you are kicked from a DF group. Once one person is gone, the rest do not receive a penalty either.

People who love this change sure do not understand anything about how DF works. I suspect that's because the OF has a lot of people with fresh 50s acting like they've cleared all the content in the game...

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

It's annoying... you get players completely under geared and the group has to wait 15 minutes to get out bc that person or persons won't leave.

It's not abuse if half the group wants out.

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How can they be completely undergeared when they met the requirements for the said dungeon in the first place?

Solution here is to ask SE to higher the ilvl requirements for the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

How can they be completely undergeared when they met the requirements for the said dungeon in the first place?

Solution here is to ask SE to higher the ilvl requirements for the dungeon.

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Temporary fix due to lag time from SE: revert the change.

You mean people have to actually try instead of attempting to game the system in an attempt to bypass the drop timer or take the 30 minute penalty? Good.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

How can they be completely undergeared when they met the requirements for the said dungeon in the first place?

Solution here is to ask SE to higher the ilvl requirements for the dungeon.

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They're not undergeared. MMO players just have the mentalty Faceroll level = Geared anything else = Underggeared.