Summoner Pet Revamp

Summoner is a great class but I think the pet skills could use some revamping. We have 3 pets to choose from but all of them feel very similar and 2 of the 3, namely Ifrit-Egi and Titan-Egi, feel useless in most group situations. It would be nice if, in addition to revamping the existing skills, more of the Egi's skills were effected by skills the master can apply (similar to contagion)

Pet Skill Changes
Ifrit-Egi – Offensive Melee
Crimson Cyclone
Delivers an attack with a potency of 105
Additional Effect: Stun
Recast: 30s

Burning Strike
Delivers an attack with a potency of 135
Recast: 3s

Radiant Shield
Delivers an attack with a potency of 65 to all nearby enemies
Potency Increased by 20 if target is affected by Miasma II
Recast: 10s

Flaming Crush
Burns the wounds inflicted by Bio, Bio II and Miasma dealing
Damage with a potency of 75 for each effect (max 225).
Recast: 30s

New Skill
Shadow Fire
Detonates Shadow flare dealing damage with a potency of 175 to all enemies within.
Recast: 30s

Titan-Egi – Tank Support
Rock Buster
Delivers an attack with a potency of 85
Additional effect: Increases Enmity
Additional effect: While under the effect of rouse, reduce enemy damage dealt by 2% (Max 5 stacks)
Duration: 20s

Mountain Buster
Delievers an attack with a potency of 70 to all nearby enemies
Additional effect: Increase Enmity
Additional effect: While under the effect of Spur, Slow +50%
Duration: 20s
Recast: 15s

Earthen Ward
Reduces pet damage taken by 20%
While under the effect of sustain: Reduces Allied damage taken by 5%
Duration: 20s
Recast: 40s

Landslide
Delivers an attack with a potency of 70
Additional Effect: Stun
Duration: 2s
Recast: 40s

New Skill
Tumult
Delivers an attack with a potency of 25 to all nearby enemies
Additional effect: Increases Enmity
While under the effect of sustain: 50% chance after each tick to reset cooldown
Recast: 60s

Garuda-Egi – Offensive Magic
Windblade
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100
Cast: 1s
Recast: 3s

Shockwave
Delivers an attack with a potency of 110
Cast: Instant
Additional Effect: When used within 5-yalms of target, 15-yalm knock back
While Under the effect of rouse: Heavy+20%/Slow+20%
Recast: 40s

Aerial Slash
Delievers an attack with a potency of 120 to target and all enemies nearby it
Additional effect: Damage over time
Damage over time potency: 15
Duration: 15s
Recast: 20s

Contagion
Same effect

New Skill
Winds of Death
Garuda-Egi sacrifices itself to enhance its master
Grants one stack of aetherflow to master
Heals master for 10% of max HP
Increases spell speed, determination and critical hit rate of master by 50%
Duration:20s

Additional effect: Garuda-egi cannot be summoned again for 60s

I wonder if we'll ever be able to go through a single week without someone suggesting that we revamp Summoners.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

I wonder if we'll ever be able to go through a single week without someone suggesting that we revamp Summoners.

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I know right. its not gonna happen. SE said its not gonna happen. There are a million of these posted weekly if not daily. If your not happy with the job there are plenty of other jobs. I know i could just ignore this post and be happy with my life but honestly, its a waste of your time and effort. SE wont listen to this as they say SMN is working "as intended by the devs". They said there is no plan to change it. Only way it will change is if we get a High Summoner and then that would be a totally different job. Hope that helps...

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

I know right. its not gonna happen. SE said its not gonna happen. There are a million of these posted weekly if not daily. If your not happy with the job there are plenty of other jobs. I know i could just ignore this post and be happy with my life but honestly, its a waste of your time and effort. SE wont listen to this as they say SMN is working "as intended by the devs". They said there is no plan to change it. Only way it will change is if we get a High Summoner and then that would be a totally different job. Hope that helps...

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When did they say this? Can you link it? And also OP is only proposing a pet's skill change, not revamping the whole job. I can't believe that they aren't going to do anything about ifrit, it is useless and they also know it, it would be extreme obstinacy to not to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

it would be extreme obstinacy to not to fix it.

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And that surprises you, why?

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Originally Posted by T0rin

I wonder if we'll ever be able to go through a single week without someone suggesting that we revamp Summoners.

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My sentiments exactly. Love the job for what it is, or do something that you actually would enjoy. Just my two cents though.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

I wonder if we'll ever be able to go through a single week without someone suggesting that we revamp Summoners.

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I don't know while you all are getting so upset about this, I mean the principle point have been stated time and time again.
We are playing a Warlock
People want to use multiple summons or at least be given an incentive to do more than just keep all DoTs up and Fester/Ruin/Rouse/Spur etc.
There's nothing wrong with theorycrafting and posting on boards.

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

I don't know while you all are getting so upset about this, I mean the principle point have been stated time and time again.
We are playing a Warlock
People want to use multiple summons or at least be given an incentive to do more than just keep all DoTs up and Fester/Ruin/Rouse/Spur etc.
There's nothing wrong with theorycrafting and posting on boards.

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I didn't notice anyone getting upset, it is just tiring. To hear the same thing, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

We all get it. These are not your 'typical' FF summons. The storyline explains why. Other people in this thread have explained why. Other people in countless other threads have explained why.

Yes, we're playing a warlock.

People want to do all sorts of things, but the reality of the situation, is that _this_ is what a Summoner is in FFXIV. If they want to do other things, they can play other classes. Some of us enjoy the class as it was designed, the majority of people even. Yet, the vocal minority always has something to say about how small pets are, or why does Ifrit have to be so lousy?

It's a DPS class. The role of the job is to deal damage. It is very good at that. If people want to do other things than deal damage, well, we have healers and we have tanks. If they want to deal damage and do more than "just keep all DoTs up and Fester/Ruin/Rouse/Spur etc.", we have Black Mage, Monk, Dragoon and Bard. They are entitled to play any of those other classes.

There was nothing wrong with theorycraft about pet potential. Then it was done about 400 more times. The obvious reality however is that this paradigm is not changing. People need to accept Summoner for what it is, or simply play another class.

Titan and Garuda are ok. Ifrit needs some changes to make it more desirable for specific encounters so a choice has to be made between Garuda and longer DoTs, or Ifrit and ???

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Originally Posted by T0rin

*post*

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Vocal minorities are entitled to their voice and can make their posts, and you have the individual agency to not go on these posts if you find them that repetitive and tiring. Hell, when you guys theorycraft with numbers, I honestly just try and stay the hell away from the posts after I see the BiS list because of the constant back and forth of personal opinion (ex. Alucard) vs facts and number. Melee DPS still complaining about fights still make posts all the time, I typically try to stay away from those since it's the same thing over and over again.
Personally, I enjoy the class, though I do want a tad bit more complexity. People can enjoy things and express their problems with said things.
Yes, the present reality is that Summoner is the way it is and will be for some time. But all of us who've played MMO's have seen classes been changed (sometimes extremely dramatically) so who know what will happen in the future.

that proposed new skill for Garuda is INSANE - way too OP. But you are definitely onto the right track with regards to making all of the egis useful. right now its silly that all summys have the yellow dude following them around, there should be merits to using the other egis.

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

Le snip

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The main difference of course, is that posts like this serve very little, to no purpose. Discussing theorycraft, damage numbers, BiS, has some functional benefit, because in the end, people come away armed with the knowledge of what is good, and what is not. Posts like these inevitably get a handful of replies, then are never seen again, and do nothing to benefit anyone except the OP (who feels like they need to rant) and the small handful of people that happen to agree.

Complaining that the sky is not green instead of blue, is not going to get it to change. Just like writing up a 2 page long ordeal about how it would be cool if ifrit would be useful, isn't going to get SE to make it so. I suppose I see my posts as a means to try to help discourage the community from continually posting the same useless drivel that ends up nowhere and accomplishing nothing and benefiting nobody. It's probably just a personality disorder of mine though.

I like the way the OP tried to make each egi relate to a different aspect of the summoner, I think this is an interesting take on how to make them individual, however it still doesn't solve the core problem.

One of the egi will still be better for groups and one will still be better for solo, leaving a third egi which is never useful. If they up ifrits damage then Garuda will be useless because ifrit will be better.

What they need to do is split the egi's usefulness across each one, but not to the extent where you have to switch them constantly during combat. For example make ifrit better at damage so he'd be best for bosses but Garuda could have a crowd control element making her better for trash pulls, for example build upon her backdraft having knockback, make it AoE, make her current AoE skill have a bind with seperate resist rate to tri-disaster, give her an AoE silence (to force caster mobs to move into the tanks range).

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Complaining that the sky is not green instead of blue, is not going to get it to change. Just like writing up a 2 page long ordeal about how it would be cool if ifrit would be useful, isn't going to get SE to make it so. I suppose I see my posts as a means to try to help discourage the community from continually posting the same useless drivel that ends up nowhere and accomplishing nothing and benefiting nobody. It's probably just a personality disorder of mine though.

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Right, like how WAR's posting that they need a buff didn't get SE to change how WAR worked even after they said it's fine.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

*post*

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Your post is cutting up in my reply so I might have to edit this, but of course complaining about isn't going to do anything. The game developers are going to make their own decisions. The threads exist as an expression of thought which inherently typically doesn't benefit anyone. People will read it, agree/disagree and move on with their lives while this thread will die somewhere in the depths of the internet popping up occasionally in tagged searches. But then again so will all threads in time. Also, I've found in near worthless to attempt to change the community of any online MMO because it's an exercise in futility.
Yes, while the BiS inherently provides more usage but since your post with the listings on January 13th, the 2.1 Summoner BiS thread has not changed in terms of what is BiS and it still continues.

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

Your post is cutting up in my reply so I might have to edit this, but of course complaining about isn't going to do anything. The game developers are going to make their own decisions. The threads exist as an expression of thought which inherently typically doesn't benefit anyone. People will read it, agree/disagree and move on with their lives while this thread will die somewhere in the depths of the internet popping up occasionally in tagged searches. But then again so will all threads in time. Also, I've found in near worthless to attempt to change the community of any online MMO because it's an exercise in futility.

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I agree with your analysis of the situation. I suppose I just wished people would search the forum, see 47 other posts about changing the Egis, and decide that enough is enough.

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

Yes, while the BiS inherently provides more usage but since your post with the listings on January 13th, the 2.1 Summoner BiS thread has not changed in terms of what is BiS and it still continues.

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True, but some people need more of an explanation, and don't want to take anything at face value. And other people just want to argue for the sake of argument, or feel the need to get illogical arguments out of their head.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Right, like how WAR's posting that they need a buff didn't get SE to change how WAR worked even after they said it's fine.

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Fair counter, if not for the fact that it was hundreds of people, not 14, and was creating a fundamental schism in the balance dynamics between WAR and PLD that were not intended by SE (who admitted as much), yet were the reality anyhow.

SMN pets on the other hand, _completely_ different scenario.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Fair counter, if not for the fact that it was hundreds of people, not 14, and was creating a fundamental schism in the balance dynamics between WAR and PLD that were not intended by SE (who admitted as much), yet were the reality anyhow.

SMN pets on the other hand, _completely_ different scenario.

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The WAR complaint had to start somewhere, 1000 people didn't all come on at once and complain. And there is a fundamental schism in the dynamics of Ifrit and Garuda that, I hope, isn't intended by SE. So not quite so different.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

I wonder if we'll ever be able to go through a single week without someone suggesting that we revamp Summoners.

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Impossible.

I would like to see Garuda's shockwave have a double damage output when the mob is close to a solid object, sort of a bonus for impact damage on being hit back

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Originally Posted by Samsta

When did they say this? Can you link it? And also OP is only proposing a pet's skill change, not revamping the whole job. I can't believe that they aren't going to do anything about ifrit, it is useless and they also know it, it would be extreme obstinacy to not to fix it.

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They also admit that Alchemy is purposely useless and refuse to change it. I hope they redo the entirety of SMN myself, but I highly doubt it will ever happen.

I have no specific complaints about my smn other than ifrit egi could use an actual useful role.

My suggestion is making it an aoe egi. It already has a few decent ones just add a skill 10-15 sec cooldown that does the same effect as your bane only doesnt use up an aetherflow. Problem solved.

I'm all for making pets more exciting, but making these threads isn't the way to go about it. Never using ifrit is, and when they take a look at their internal data and they see garuda being used 99% of the time. Then they might decide to do something about it. And they'll do it their way, in a manner that fits their vision of the game.