Just give us a chance...

Ok, I just had an awful experience. Went into a Duty for the first time. I died, several times. I felt bad because I wasn't supporting the group. The whole party ended up wiping and I was berated for dying. So I asked where they wanted me and I tried to follow. I died twice more. What followed was a player commenting that I was, "Probably the worst player I've ever seen."

Ok, I just want to ask one thing. Give those of us who don't catch on immediately a chance.

I play everyday but I have to take time as I go and try to learn. I'm not asking that the content be made easier or to be carried. I want to do my part and help the team win. It's not necessary to treat people poorly because they don't perform to elevated standards.

This is just a vent. Probably a bad idea to post it. I just wanted to ask those players that take on roles and tasks easily to give us a chance. We don't want the content to change, we may just take a bit to learn.

Please feel free to ignore. I just needed to voice a bit of frustration.

well at least you ask and listen to advice, kupo...i mean kudos OP. what dungeon were you in btw?

Which instance was this? Also, there's generally no reason to pay those types of people any mind, if they're unwilling to give you tips and instead throw insults at you you probably don't want to associate with them anyway.

Ultima, Bard's ballad task.

Mhm I haven't done it yet but maybe if you watch a video on it, you might know a little more? Could just take a lil bit of stress off you if you know the positioning better? Always helps me :D

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

snip.

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here is a guide that may help you in future DF groups. hope it helps!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/143481
it can be applied to just about any DF group.

I will admit if people keep dying without any signs of progression to be seen, I do get frustrated but I control hateful words to myself, because it doesn't solve anything, just breeds more violence. Instead, I stop the whole party and calmly say to the party: " We can do it! Give it your all!". I then tell everyone what the goal of the fight/dungeon is and eventually we win.

As long as everyone makes an effort to progress no matter how small, I am happy!

The way those players behaved towards you is unacceptable. That fight has a lot of mechanics that you need to get used to. Did you have a chance to do some research on the mechanics of this fight? If you did, what was giving you trouble on this fight?

Stop taking things so personal... People are assholes over runs because they died just as much as you did in the beginning... I don't watch video's because I don't want to ruin the fight... I like not knowing what is gonna happen and having to think of how to over come it... Do I get yelled at... HELL NO cause i'm a healer yell at me and then you get no heals...

Unfortunately I was being hit so fast by the attacks I couldn't really say which part I was getting caught in. It was very confusing. I will definitely need to watch the video a few times to see what kind of pattern there is and where I need to place myself. The player they told me to follow was running so many circles that each time I attacked I lost sight on him.

Thanks all for the tips. Like I said, I want to do the trials but they are kicking my butt a bit. Just some more research will help I'm sure. At least I hope so. :)

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Stop taking things so personal... People are assholes over runs because they died just as much as you did in the beginning... I don't watch video's because I don't want to ruin the fight... I like not knowing what is gonna happen and having to think of how to over come it... Do I get yelled at... HELL NO cause i'm a healer yell at me and then you get no heals...

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I find that attitude quite silly, so if you're doing a bad job you'll get annoyed if someone says to pick it up?

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Originally Posted by Pavise

I find that attitude quite silly, so if you're doing a bad job you'll get annoyed if someone says to pick it up?

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I find it quite silly that people would yell and stomp there feet over someone's lack of skills...

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

Unfortunately I was being hit so fast by the attacks I couldn't really say which part I was getting caught in. It was very confusing. I will definitely need to watch the video a few times to see what kind of pattern there is and where I need to place myself. The player they told me to follow was running so many circles that each time I attacked I lost sight on him.

Thanks all for the tips. Like I said, I want to do the trials but they are kicking my butt a bit. Just some more research will help I'm sure. At least I hope so. :)

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You most likely died after garuda when the plumes start going off first outside and then the center... Watch the video till your blue in the face without the experience its not gonna help you... That's a tough fight until you learn the rotation... Start a party finder learning party people join and help you plus you don't get yelled at...

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

Unfortunately I was being hit so fast by the attacks I couldn't really say which part I was getting caught in. It was very confusing. I will definitely need to watch the video a few times to see what kind of pattern there is and where I need to place myself. The player they told me to follow was running so many circles that each time I attacked I lost sight on him.

Thanks all for the tips. Like I said, I want to do the trials but they are kicking my butt a bit. Just some more research will help I'm sure. At least I hope so. :)

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Ultima HM takes some getting used to. Watch those videos, take a friend who knows the rotation and follow them if you need to. Utilize whatever means you know are effective for yourself to learn the content. I know people who can watch videos and immediately commit that knowledge to memory and properly utilize it, I know others who have to experience the content to learn it, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Stop taking things so personal... People are assholes over runs because they died just as much as you did in the beginning... I don't watch video's because I don't want to ruin the fight... I like not knowing what is gonna happen and having to think of how to over come it... Do I get yelled at... HELL NO cause i'm a healer yell at me and then you get no heals...

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I don't know what groups you're in or maybe your server is just short on healers, but if I end up being with a healer who wants to 'experience' the fight the way you describe at the expense of my time, I'll give you the boot with quickness or just leave. You're playing with 7 other people....teh fuk

An advice that I will give is that, if you have the means to do it, try to record your fights and watch them later to see in slow mo and think about how you can improve

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Originally Posted by Tazo

I don't know what groups you're in or maybe your server is just short on healers, but if I end up being with a healer who wants to 'experience' the fight the way you describe at the expense of my time, I'll give you the boot with quickness or just leave. You're playing with 7 other people....teh fuk

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Look they even cry and stomp their feet in the forums...

It looks like it's...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...gthisdrama.gif
time.

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Look they even cry and stomp their feet in the forums...

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If it's a PF group, then he's right, you're just wasting the other people's time. Unless it says learning that is.

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Look they even cry and stomp their feet in the forums...

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I don't stomp or cry about bad players, I'll throw out advise and if they continuously die to shit that they shouldn't then they either get the boot or if it is not my group, I leave. No hard feelings.

We have people of different jobs on my server with reputations of simply being bad players. These players are avoided when making groups. Every server has those. Players on that list consist of people who are awesome in general but are just not great players because of lag or slow reaction speed and the others being little shits who think they are special snowflakes. You are the later.

When i hear DPS say "i don't know what hit me" It's usually Ifrit. We'll do run after run after run before they finally realize it was Ifrit jumping out of nowhere and taking them out.

Something like this happened to me when I did Amdapor Keep for the first time at the last boss. But to be honest, I knew that it was a bad idea to use DF for a first time run, but I was too lazy to start a PF group and I was too embarrassed to get a FC group. From that experience alone, I know that it can take a few tries to really learn something, and that sometimes people really have to learn things for themselves. Of course, most of all I learned to not be lazy and use an FC group or a PF group that knows I have no idea what I'm going to be doing.

I feel you OP, patience is a quality elitist seem to lack and make end game a living hell. I had a similar experience today in Thornmarch. Granted it's easy but not everyone wasn't on key and we wiped. Not a few seconds later someone already started the "Vote Abandon"...

Was it through Duty Finder or Party Finder? If it was via Party Finder, I suggest finding a beginners group or tell the group ahead of time that you're still learning. If they let you stay, it's on them to keep cool heads while you go through the motions.

I always will say "Steady2" and then will do my best to cover-up for the one-person who is always dying to at least beat the boss/challenge especially in terms of DPS XD.

Well, just take your time and learn, but of course if people flame you, don't flame back. That is my advise to at least prevent a day from getting bad to worse.

Best is to Vote Abandon when the flaming wars begin and then find another party who can tolerate with new people like you.

It was DF. At the beginning of the fight I told them it was my first time. They talked tanking plans and ran in.

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Originally Posted by Tazo

I don't stomp or cry about bad players, I'll throw out advise and if they continuously die to shit that they shouldn't then they either get the boot or if it is not my group, I leave. No hard feelings.

We have people of different jobs on my server with reputations of simply being bad players. These players are avoided when making groups. Every server has those. Players on that list consist of people who are awesome in general but are just not great players because of lag or slow reaction speed and the others being little shits who think they are special snowflakes. You are the later.

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You boot people... That means you cry and stomp your feet... Your advise is probably nothing but put downs and negativity... I'm here to help people, i like people, if you play like shit i boot people... Glad i'm not on your server, my server knows I am a special snow flake with the healing skills to back up my non video watching choice... I don't boot people who suck, I work with them to make them better... That's the difference between people like me and people like you... People like me try to help people progress because its a rewarding feeling... People like you want to see yourself progress because it's YOUR rewarding feeling...

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

It was DF. At the beginning of the fight I told them it was my first time. They talked tanking plans and ran in.

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Just ignore people like that. DF is the one place that you take what you get, if you don't like it leave. My advise is keep checking the PF, I usually see one two learning parties for things like Ultimate or primals on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

It was DF. At the beginning of the fight I told them it was my first time. They talked tanking plans and ran in.

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It's OK. You'll probably never see people from df nor I think they would remember you. Just ignore it! Party finder on the other hand.. Is where the real bashing begins. Some would shout in chat at how bad certain players were.

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

Ok, I just had an awful experience. Went into a Duty for the first time. I died, several times. I felt bad because I wasn't supporting the group. The whole party ended up wiping and I was berated for dying. So I asked where they wanted me and I tried to follow. I died twice more. What followed was a player commenting that I was, "Probably the worst player I've ever seen."

Ok, I just want to ask one thing. Give those of us who don't catch on immediately a chance.

I play everyday but I have to take time as I go and try to learn. I'm not asking that the content be made easier or to be carried. I want to do my part and help the team win. It's not necessary to treat people poorly because they don't perform to elevated standards.

This is just a vent. Probably a bad idea to post it. I just wanted to ask those players that take on roles and tasks easily to give us a chance. We don't want the content to change, we may just take a bit to learn.

Please feel free to ignore. I just needed to voice a bit of frustration.

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Clarification: This one would highly suggest both checking out Mr Happy's Ultima guide and his guide to maximizing DPS on Dragoon. These are very well formatted and should help you improve your performance.

Guise don't ruin his "dungeon experience" and make him learn anything or watch videos.

Ultima HM definitely takes some practice learning the patterns and AoE's of the different phases. I've done the fight several times and sometimes I still derp when the Eruption-chain pops on me. I understand wanting to experience it first hand, but if you can now that you've gotten your feet wet, check out some videos or picture guides that help describe common strategies. Best of luck!

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

You boot people... That means you cry and stomp your feet... Your advise is probably nothing but put downs and negativity... I'm here to help people, i like people, if you play like shit i boot people... Glad i'm not on your server, my server knows I am a special snow flake with the healing skills to back up my non video watching choice... I don't boot people who suck, I work with them to make them better... That's the difference between people like me and people like you... People like me try to help people progress because its a rewarding feeling... People like you want to see yourself progress because it's YOUR rewarding feeling...

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Glad i'm not on yours. You can be as polite and nice as you want and some people don't learn, and keep failing. And this type is more common than people like to believe. If you can't perform, and continue to do so, WHY should they keep you? You're just wearing down everyone's gear by not improving.

So no, it's not stomping feet. It's "You're not performing and not improving, and we want to clear this. Bye."

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Originally Posted by Tazo

I don't know what groups you're in or maybe your server is just short on healers, but if I end up being with a healer who wants to 'experience' the fight the way you describe at the expense of my time, I'll give you the boot with quickness or just leave. You're playing with 7 other people....teh fuk

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I do the same thing as that guy. I walk in and experience it first. Watching videos, especially for a fight like this, isn't as helpful for people like me. The only mechanic that I would have been a little better prepared for would have been the Ifrit rushes. I walked into Ultima a few days after it released, had no idea what to expect, and my group got it down in about three tries. I was a healer, too, so I didn't "get carried," as I am sure many might proclaim. How many people watched Titan videos but still couldn't master the mechanics? A lot.

I'll give people 3-4 chance before calling it off if they keep dieing at the same mechanic. While I've died a ton of times on Titan EX, I only ever died due to a fuck up on my own end about 4 times. I watch the video about 2 times just to see the mechanics and then try to put what I know into use during the actual fight. First couple times it will be pretty sloppy but after that I've gotten the rhythm down. Outside of Ifrit EX with the stacks on tanks everything has a set rotation that you can memorize.

100% Agree!

Died several times. Died twice more.
Seems to me they gave you your chance(s).

Ah, Ultima. Yeah...that's not an easy fight initially at all. I prefer to tank it for a reason lol, but can heal it and DPS it just fine

Its really learning what's going on, remembering the rotation, and dodging EVERYTHING.

Pretty much, as a DRG you're looking to stay on Ultima's flank (except for Impulse Drive), especially early on; this lets you dodge plumes easiest. Make sure after Eruptions, you know where Ifrit spawned so you can get out of the way. During bit-lasers, dodge the blue and DPS them down. Avoid the multi-colored spinning circles when airships are coming down. And make sure to avoid the triple-laser attack.

I'm someone that needs to experience a fight to understand it. I'll read up beforehand to get an idea what to watch out for but it still doesn't fully prepare me for the fight and videos do next to nothing for me. After doing the fight a few times I generally have a pretty good idea about what's coming.

If someone's new I'll try to give advice if they ask for it or died to something avoidable. I never lash out at players and have even defended them in some instances when someone is flipping-out on them, however, if I see the same person repeatedly making the same mistakes, it's usually clear to me that it's pointless to continue and will call things off.

The most common places I see people messing up on Ultima are ranged not moving away for Geocrushes, people not looking for where Ifrit is before he charges, people suiciding into orbs, and healers losing focus on the tank and letting them die to Diffractive Laser. If I see anyone dying to these mechanics then I'll usually make a comment about it after a wipe, but after that I'm hoping they'll know what they should be doing. People should already be pretty familiar with dodging when coloured zones appear since they exist almost everywhere in the game.

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Originally Posted by Michiaiki

I died, several times.

Ok, I just want to ask one thing. Give those of us who don't catch on immediately a chance.

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You sure they didn't give you a chance?

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Originally Posted by Jyoeru

I do the same thing as that guy. I walk in and experience it first. Watching videos, especially for a fight like this, isn't as helpful for people like me. The only mechanic that I would have been a little better prepared for would have been the Ifrit rushes. I walked into Ultima a few days after it released, had no idea what to expect, and my group got it down in about three tries. I was a healer, too, so I didn't "get carried," as I am sure many might proclaim. How many people watched Titan videos but still couldn't master the mechanics? A lot.

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Watching a video and/or reading a quick guide before doing a fight WILL help you out a lot more than not doing so. Did you know to stack with everyone else when Aetherial Boom went off to eat those bombs together? Or were you too close to the OT that solo ran through those bombs and you died? Did you know as soon as you entered that a PLD can't block/parry any of the attacks and would need extra attention than a WAR?

All that I am saying is if you choose to join any group for high lvl content, put in the effort like the others in the group and come with the basic knowledge of the mechanics. If you are the type that does not like to research a fight because it ruins your experience don't expect to get anymore than 'Dodge shit, don't die' response when you say that you don't know anything about the fight. Wanting people to explain to you what you could have found out yourself if you took the 5min of time to google is simply lazy. Keep in mind, I am not saying this is you.

Lets say for example you are in a group with people running Titan HM. One player continuously keeps dying to plums before you get to the heart. This is a 'learning party' in the PF not a 'exp only etc.' type of party. You are 10+ wipes deep and he keeps dying to plums. You made this group, what do you do at this point?