EX garuda question: suprana only strategy

Hi all,

Recently I saw this a lot in high ilv PF's comments (suprana only or burn suprana), I have googled it but I didn't find any useful information about it. (Ofc PF leader doesn't borther to reply /tell)
Can anyone give me a brief introduction on it? How does it work and why is it good?
I know the normal way: OT provoke Spiny and pull Chirada, DPS down Chirada, OT provoke Suprana and MT provoke Spiny.

Thank you for helping.

That strategy is so the tank only has to suffer from double WW once instead of risking Suparna does another WW later that might hit the OT and the melee DPS. This strategy usually employs a more range heavy composition or an experienced melee to dodge double WW.

OT take suprana , make thing more simple. Garuda and Chirada rotation is easier to predict plus they wont do feather rain like Garuda + sup. BTW i dont know why ppl want OT to voke Spiny right away, to me it really pointless to do so. Spiny will not do any damage (well barely), so why not just left it on whoever (healr MT or DPS) then voke it off them at 2 stack.., it make thing a lot more simple ;S

I.E. OT can pull add adn get into position faster (not having to pull spiny ) and DPS can burn OT add faster as well. if done right OT's add should die or close to dead when tornado start.

Thank you for replying.
I have one more question: If OT pull Suprana and MT take Chirada what will happen when Suprana and Garuda swap positions? Suprana and Chirada will be back to back (so 5 stacks buff for both). Do DPS suppose to kill Suprana before this happen?

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Originally Posted by Remn

OT take suprana , make thing more simple. Garuda and Chirada rotation is easier to predict plus they wont do feather rain like Garuda + sup. BTW i dont know why ppl want OT to voke Spiny right away, to me it really pointless to do so. Spiny will not do any damage (well barely), so why not just left it on whoever (healr MT or DPS) then voke it off them at 2 stack.., it make thing a lot more simple ;S

I.E. OT can pull add adn get into position faster (not having to pull spiny ) and DPS can burn OT add faster as well. if done right OT's add should die or close to dead when tornado start.

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OT provoke Spiny right away will make sure his provoke will be ready when his add die. If his provoke is on CD (because provoke Spiny late) he may have trouble to pull MT's sister through Tornado.

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Originally Posted by ImDingDing

OT provoke Spiny right away will make sure his provoke will be ready when his add die. If his provoke is on CD (because provoke Spiny late) he may have trouble to pull MT's sister through Tornado.

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OT grabs Chirada, MT takes ruda and Suprana, spiny goes to a random, Chirada dies, OT grabs Sup, MT vokes spiny, or OT vokes spiny MT stays with ruda and sup, OT "tanks" spiny close to party. Second way allows for a LNC to OT or a lesser geared tank. MT needs to be on the ball tho for double WW.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

That strategy is so the tank only has to suffer from double WW once instead of risking Suparna does another WW later that might hit the OT and the melee DPS. This strategy usually employs a more range heavy composition or an experienced melee to dodge double WW.

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If that's the worry why not just do a 3 way method where the dps take chirada, ot takes suprana and mt takes Garuda. It's a pity most people can't play with Japanese pugs because they always do this method and in most compositions it is clearly superior. The strats popular in EN groups shift the difficulty away from ranged dps way too much.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

If that's the worry why not just do a 3 way method where the dps take chirada, ot takes suprana and mt takes Garuda. It's a pity most people can't play with Japanese pugs because they always do this method and in most compositions it is clearly superior. The strats popular in EN groups shift the difficulty away from ranged dps way too much.

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I don't see how it's popular or even remotely close to superior, it's slow and terrible with the current ilvl environment... Melees can't do their positional attacks and healers burn through the mp and you lost a lot of time moving through tornados.

Even the normal battle line up, garuda dies in 2-3 tornado phases for journeymen, and once you get good, at most 2 tornado phases.

A good team of ilvl80ish can wreck suprana in double WW in approx 1 rotation, and can down both sisters just a little over 1min, leaving a good 30 seconds on garuda.

When you add in one more dps, with 1 healer battles, the battle becomes 1.5 tornado rotations.

How can 3 ways even come close to that type of maximization.

Healing 1 tank is better then healing 6 people, and you can't even use cure 3 anywhere. Having full on positional and dot damage is better then messing around with dancing.

People who don't like the current strat, just don't work well as a team and assign stupid tasks on each other. A good team would never let the MT suffer much of the double sisters, and good healers are prepare to back up the MT. There is nearly zero lost in damage and healing with the standard method. End Of Story

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Originally Posted by Remn

BTW i dont know why ppl want OT to voke Spiny right away, to me it really pointless to do so

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Using the "provoke method" (OT grabs spiny and Chirada, Chirada dies first, MT and OT then swap Spiny/Suparna) the OT should grab the Spiny for several reasons:

- this way the MT always knows which person will get the debuff, so he know where to look for the stacks
- OT has control over the spiny's position, so he can bring it to the edge of the big cyclone
- healers and DPS can focus on their job rather than watching for a debuff and having to bring the spiny within provoke range
- spiny will often go to the MT so you OT has to grab the spiny, because otherwise he can only provoke spiny or Suparna off of the MT later on

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

OT grabs Chirada, MT takes ruda and Suprana, spiny goes to a random, Chirada dies, OT grabs Sup, MT vokes spiny, or OT vokes spiny MT stays with ruda and sup, OT "tanks" spiny close to party. Second way allows for a LNC to OT or a lesser geared tank. MT needs to be on the ball tho for double WW.

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Spiny goes to a random only works out when that random is not the MT. It's best to have your OT provoke the spiny right away, instead of dragging Chirada into the OT corner first, then realizing that the spiny is on the MT, moving all the way to voke spiny of the MT (which is now later than it would initially have been, causing provoke to come off CD later) and then moving back into his corner (all the while your DPS already goes to town on Chirada so they will probably pull aggro, because you OT was busy with trying to catch the Spiny and moving around all over the place)

I've done Garuda in 5:20 with the 3 method strat, it doesn't even see a second cycle. All those things you listed are absolutely possible with a 3 way method the only difference is that it evenly distributes difficulty instead of just telling the mt and melee to deal with it. We're not even talking about speed kills but if you want e-peen wave over it I can too

The point of popularising a method is not about efficiency but ease and consistency, and this is way easier on the tanks and melee in exchange for getting the ranged to dodge something for once. It was my whole point that strats in the en speaking groups favor ranged too much, and remain popular regardless of merit vs others. You need to play in jp groups it will help you think outside the box.

Seriously what mp loss? You still dodge slipstream and chirada melts right after that, if not before. The add melt at the exact same rate meaning you also have less moves to deal with, I've seen no dps issues if people actually know how to play the strat.

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

Using the "provoke method" (OT grabs spiny and Chirada, Chirada dies first, MT and OT then swap Spiny/Suparna) the OT should grab the Spiny for several reasons:

- this way the MT always knows which person will get the debuff, so he know where to look for the stacks
- OT has control over the spiny's position, so he can bring it to the edge of the big cyclone
- healers and DPS can focus on their job rather than watching for a debuff and having to bring the spiny within provoke range
- spiny will often go to the MT so you OT has to grab the spiny, because otherwise he can only provoke spiny or Suparna off of the MT later on



Spiny goes to a random only works out when that random is not the MT. It's best to have your OT provoke the spiny right away, instead of dragging Chirada into the OT corner first, then realizing that the spiny is on the MT, moving all the way to voke spiny of the MT (which is now later than it would initially have been, causing provoke to come off CD later) and then moving back into his corner (all the while your DPS already goes to town on Chirada so they will probably pull aggro, because you OT was busy with trying to catch the Spiny and moving around all over the place)

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I see, didnt aware that new strat has OT pull 2nd sister. I stop farming Garuda month ago ;P. My usual strat of taking her never involve taunting sister off the MT. if MT pop his/her CD in timely manner he should be able to tank 2.
as for spiny, the timing for OT to voke spiny is alway the same on sister phase regardless of who has it (Around 15 second per debuff, give or take I have 40 second b4 I have to do teh 1st Voke. so it never an issue for me.

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Originally Posted by Remn

I see, didnt aware that new strat has OT pull 2nd sister. I stop farming Garuda month ago ;P. My usual strat of taking her never involve taunting sister off the MT. if MT pop his/her CD in timely manner he should be able to tank 2.
as for spiny, the timing for OT to voke spiny is alway the same on sister phase regardless of who has it (Around 15 second per debuff, give or take I have 40 second b4 I have to do teh 1st Voke. so it never an issue for me.

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Of course that MT would have no issue tanking Garuda and Suparna, that's not why the OT taunts Suparna. The OT only spots Suparna so that your Melee DPS doesn't have to deal with Whicked Wheels (especially not double whicked wheel).

can 3 tanks do this? and how much would the strategy change if they did?

3 tanks can... however if you want 1 tank for each sister and 1 for Garuda just do the triangle strat with dps taking Chirada. It's really the safest way and can be done fast. How this works is MT takes Garuda NE, OT takes Suparna NW, and DPS/heals take Chirada SE during tornado phase, everything before is exactly the same as other strats. The only danger is DPS dying to downburst which can be negated by them stacking for it. 1 DPS eating downburst hits em for around 4k, and can be reduced all the way to around 200 depending on how many people in the SE get hit.

"Suprana Only" strategy, means the MT takes Suprana/Garuda, and OT tanks Chirada, and the DPS kills only Suprana, and leaves Chirada alive and burns Garuda. You take about 3.8k damage in the jump but can be done with SCH or decent HP people at full health.

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Originally Posted by Squa

"Suprana Only" strategy, means the MT takes Suprana/Garuda, and OT tanks Chirada, and the DPS kills only Suprana, and leaves Chirada alive and burns Garuda. You take about 3.8k damage in the jump but can be done with SCH or decent HP people at full health.

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Too many people answered incorrectly in this thread. This is the right answer TS.

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Originally Posted by Squa

"Suprana Only" strategy, means the MT takes Suprana/Garuda, and OT tanks Chirada, and the DPS kills only Suprana, and leaves Chirada alive and burns Garuda. You take about 3.8k damage in the jump but can be done with SCH or decent HP people at full health.

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Thank you thank you, this answered my confustion.

I am interested in the 3 pulls method, so can anyone explain the strategy (or a link)?

Just tried this as a BLM. BLM in general can do this with really low ilv because of "Manaward". And "Apocatastasis" can help another low hp member. Really ez for low dps team.

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Originally Posted by ImDingDing

Just tried this as a BLM. BLM in general can do this with really low ilv because of "Manaward". And "Apocatastasis" can help another low hp member. Really ez for low dps team.

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I thought Apocatastasis was not wind damage? Does it actually work?