So my primary role in this game, is warrior. i feel that the development team has put forth a good effort in trying to keep paladin and warrior balanced, however it still is not there. while we have been raised to a comparable level to that of a paladin in terms of defense, our offensive scale is sadly NOT where it should be. we are still slightly behind paladin in terms of mitigation ability, which IS COMPLETLEY OK! but as a trade off.... our over all damage capabilities should be expected to be WAY higher than a paladins..... however... they arent.....
heres some tweaks to existing abilities, and new abilities that i feel would help warrior shine more at dealing out that damage.... it would also remove the need to put in that terrible tank swap mechanic.
Some suggestions to increase warriors damage output by tweaking existing effects.
Defiance - Reduce damage penalty to 10%
Berserk - Remove pacification. its pointless for it to be there. no other offensive cool-down gives this large of a detriment. infact only ONE Other offensive cool-down gives any detriment, and its not that bad.....
Improved Fracture - Cut the TP cost in half, Remove it from the global, and allow it to not break chain.
Fracture is largely just a TP sink at this point in the game, as the damage it puts out is minimaly better in comparison to standard abilities. on paper its great, but its TP drain sucks, and the fact that i have to Put off either my enmity combo, or debuffing rotation to do it is stupid.
Increase our overall base damage by 10%... its a freaking greataxe... it should hurt when we hit somebody, but 99% of the time the damage is laughable .... i mean FFS... the marauder quest is about shattering BOULDERS with an axe half the time. don't see paladins doing that.....
or we could do New job abilities.... if you want to go that route.
Oor Dolg (Nordic for Battle Frenzy) This is intended to be analogous of Defiance
TP Cost: 0
Recast: 10 S
Cannot be used with defiance
Increases base damage by 25%
Reduces Healing Received by 20%
Prevents Bonus Enmity Generation from abilities
Abilities generate wrath (Infuriate, Steel Cyclone & Inner beast work with Oor Dolg)Inner beast: Restores 300% of damage dealt as HP – Increases attack speed by 5% for 8 secondsFury Break
Steel Cyclone: Increased Critical Hit rate. Critical hits Stun your opponents
TP Cost: 0
Recast: 0
Potency: 200%
Requires Enraged V
Only Useable with Oor Dolg
Consumes all Wrath when used
Delivers an area of effect attack
Additional Effect: Applies Current targets Warrior Debuffs to all targets in melee range, and refreshes their effect duration to their maximum. (works with Storms Eye, Storms Path, and Fracture)
** off of global
Rampage
TP Cost: 0
Recast: 5M
Duration: 30 Seconds
Only Useable with Oor Dolg
Grants 5 wrath
Lowers wrath cost for moves to 1 (maximum of 5 Wrath powered moves)
Additional Effect: “Exhaustion”
“Exhaustion”: Prevents any Wrath Generation for 60 seconds
War Cry
TP Cost: 200
Recast: 3 Minutes
Any Stance – Generates 2 wrath – No Stance – Recovers 400 TP
Oor Dolg: Lowers all enemies defense by 10% for 30 seconds
Defiance: Lowers all enemies Attack by 10% for 30 seconds
No Stance: Enhances the melee attack speed of all party members in range by 10% for 30 seconds
Tivar Hamarr (Gods Hammer)
Level 30
Tp Cost: 150
Potency: 125%
Recast 45 Seconds
Any Stance – Generates 1 wrath
Can only be used when 10-20 Yalms from target
Leap to your target and deliver an area attack to targets within range (range is equal to fire arrow radial icon)
Suggestion: Warrior improvements
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02-03-2014, 10:33 PMVeronycaSuggestion: Warrior improvements
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02-03-2014, 11:11 PMTiggy
Take Defiance off. The warrior will now do more damage. The entire point of Defiance mode is to tank. Not to do damage. I don't think these suggestions are required at all. If you want a DD then just play a DD.
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02-03-2014, 11:23 PMThorauku
The only change I want for WAR is Holmgang. How come I can't freely move when I bind someone using my chain?
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02-04-2014, 12:41 AMAlvarionYou know, I am not for or against any of the suggestions made by the OP, but god forbid you enjoy playing a class/job, right? I mean, who wants more versatility? I know I sure don't..... /sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
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02-04-2014, 12:50 AMSpookyGhostBeing stuck in place isn't so bad, but being able to live with 1 HP and still requiring mass heals is a bit... meh. It'd be cool if Holmgang had an increased healing received buff so that it didnt take Cure 2/Lustrate bombs to get you back up to full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorauku
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02-04-2014, 12:56 AMSotekBecause you're still holding onto the chain? The animation makes it seem like you throw the chain at the enemy, pull them in, and hold them there. If you could move around then you would effectively be holding a lead and you'd be pulling the enemy. I just wish Holmgang had a longer range...Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorauku
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02-04-2014, 01:36 AMPArcherPacification on Berserk is actually useful in long fights...a forced break to regen TP. WAR have no other means to do so other than to stop attacking completely (PLD have Shield Swipe, the other three TP users have Invigorate)Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
Also, the other detrimental CD, AKA Blood For Blood...yeah, I'll take 5 seconds of Pacification over the potential to be OHKed anyday...oh, and that +50% damage instead of +30% (or 10% for cross-class)...
You also know that Fracture isn't the most TP-costly DoT, right? Phlebotomize, Windbite and Venomous Bite all cost 90 TP...
As for the rest, WAR is fine. I vastly prefer to WAR over PLD due to the versatility, and its just more fun. And like its been said, just turn off Defiance when you're not tanking if you need to DPS... -
02-04-2014, 01:44 AMRaideDuku
Don't expect too much sympathy from BRD's and SMN's, considering that the last patch ripped abilities from them and gave them to WARs. You want to do DPS, play a DPS class.
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02-04-2014, 01:47 AMFelisC
WAR already does quite a bit more DPS than PLD, at least in my experience. If you're that worried about your DPS, stance dance more; you can get away with it in most fights.
Although it'd be cool to have another stance that outright increased DPS and dps abilities, that's asking a lot for a single class. -
02-04-2014, 01:57 AMJunpei
NO 2 OP.
/10char -
02-04-2014, 01:59 AMHeartlly
Why dont u just suggest a dps job for mrd rather then slaping more skills on curent job >_>
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02-04-2014, 02:01 AMAlvarionNot at all! Why not have versatility in your job/class?! Asking too much? Why, because it can be turned into a DPS build? Why is that a bad thing?! Why are people so intent on keeping everything so cookie cutter and boring in this community? I just don't get it. Why can't jobs have different play-styles and utilities? It's such narrow minded thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by FelisC
Edit: And I know this thread is about Warrior specifically, but why can't all jobs have more versatility? 5 skills that separate you between your class and job? Everything in this game has become so watered down. Remember when paladins used to build threat based on heals?! Divine Veil, Holy Succor?! Things that set itself apart from the other tank jobs. What is wrong with having multiple ways of playing a job/class? -
02-04-2014, 02:05 AMZantetsuken
What OP really wants is Berserker job for MRD.
Heck, I want it as well...
But WAR doesn't need any real fixes (other than maybe longer range for Holmgang.) -
02-04-2014, 02:06 AMPArcherBecause you CAN turn WAR into a pretty good DPS as it is now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarion
Just throw on melee accessories, turn Defiance off...and bam, you're doing a ton of damage.
Heck, right now I think I've seen my Butcher's Block get to 800-900+ crits with Berserk + Maim + Storm's Eye (+ Unchained). And that was when I was closer to i70...I would love to see a full i90 WAR's damage with melee accessories. -
02-04-2014, 02:08 AMAlvarionYes, but you will never take a warrior into a group over any other DPS if given the option and you already have your tank situation taken care of. What is being suggested is creating the option of having a viable DPS output from a warrior. Which, in all honestly, most likely won't come until they introduce another job.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
Edit: And I have put out over 170+ DPS on my warrior with dps jewelry on while stance dancing. -
02-04-2014, 02:13 AMFelisCYes, I should have said it was a lot to ask of a job, not a class. Versatility in your job's given role and asking for your job to have multiple roles are two different things. I would love to have a 2nd job for MRD that was DPS oriented, but it doesn't make sense to latch it on to WAR as part of a 3rd stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarion
I think the limited playstyles are largely a result of the simple combat system and couldn't be solved by tweaking abilities. -
02-04-2014, 02:14 AMPArcherSo...wait til they put out the MRD DPS job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarion
I can't effectively tank as a DRG or MNK yet, nor really heal as a BLM. -
02-04-2014, 02:21 AMTiggyI do enjoy playing warrior. I play it all the time and I have a great time doing it. As for more versatility I wonder to what end you want more versatility. Warrior is a tank class first and foremost, and shoehorning various DPS enhancing skills on it does nothing more than make the class far too versatile in that primary role, and therefore overpowered for a tank slot. I don't want the suggested skills because warrior is already very powerful after the 2.1 changes, and no changes are required for this class at this time due to those changes. I have no interest in breaking class balance just because you want a tank to be DPS more than it already can be. When used properly the tank does plenty of damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarion
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02-04-2014, 02:21 AMAlvarionAgain, I am in no way agreeing or disagreeing with the OP on "fixes" for warrior, however with that being said, I am all for increasing job dynamics as combat for almost every class/job is pretty stale in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
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02-04-2014, 02:24 AMVactus
You're asking for us to have a DPS job attached to MRD. I'm ok with that, but any of those changes would be obscene for one JOB to have. One class split to two jobs would be great.
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02-04-2014, 02:35 AMAlvarionYes, within the confines of how this game works currently, this is the only logical way to achieve such a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vactus
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02-04-2014, 02:38 AMMook_Mook
the issue with war is that when oting or dps mode you don't gain wraith meaning to be useful at your job you gotta pop infuriate just to have access to your abilities. it puts them petty far behind when paladin who has access to all its skills all the time.
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02-04-2014, 02:44 AMAirget
There is nothing wrong with Berserk, with it's 50% increase in att power compared to blood for blood's 10/30% if DRG wtiha 25% dmg taken increased Berserk is still stronger.
Berserk is 50% at 20 seconds, 5 second pacification with 90 second recast
Blood for Blood 30% 20 second, for that 20 seconds you take 25% more dmg. 80 second recast
If in AOE heavy fights that's a very risky move to use for a 30% increase in dmg for DRG and a 10% for cross class.
Honestly during the pacification phase you can just use that time to spam Flash once or twice to add in bit more hate since you can't attack but you can still use magic.
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I think the issue is you're trying to make War(Tank) both a DD and a tank and that's just not balanced, if you did that then you would have to do the same for PLD. If PLD and WAR could pull off the same DD numbers as other DD and still tank/have a tank form there would be no need for the other battle classes.
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Now rather than say that War should get new abilities, the ones you listed could be for the second job class "Berserker"
(30)Oor Dolg: The opposite of Defiance, grants the same Enrage charges and said charges are used to use other abilities.
For each charge could give a 5% increase in dmg but also 5% increase in dmg taken, so it's a give and take to either keep those charges up and risk taking more dmg or using them for abilities
Change "enmity gain" effect to "increased crit chance"
*Removes the pacification enfeeble from Berserk*
(35)Unburden:Removes the dmg taken penalty for Enrage charges for 30 seconds
(40)Rampage:5-fold attack that leaves you vulnerable, increases dmg taken by 10% for 15 seconds 5x100 potency attack
(45)War Cry (V Enrage) grants AOE dmg increase 10% and AOE weakens target's defense by 10% for 20 seconds (2 min recast)
(50)
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Can't think of a 5th ability but the idea is it's better to consider the second job for marauder rather than develop/alter Warrior to be a pure tank or pure DD. You can use the idea of your abilities to develop a new job that marauder can change into but trying to change the dynamics of war itself would just imbalance the class and make it to powerful. -
02-04-2014, 02:48 AMCrystalRainbow
I play brd, My wife plays Warrior, Only think I would like is being able to see her TP bar.
If I can't have that. Please give Warriors a self TP kick.
3 Min cool down, Next 10-20 seconds no TP cost. -
02-04-2014, 05:48 AMWiseWolfHolo
There is nothing wrong with warrior, our dps output especially in beserk is broken. Have you ever even though bloodbath is pretty bad now, but is not meant to self heal a crap ton, but waited til you have 5 wrath by build up, hit unchained, beserk, bloodbath and used convalescence as a cooldown in big pulls and seen the broken aoe numbers that can come up even with fending accessories, add crafted for the more crit and str and yes broken. Yes beserk needs that pacification as a trade off to the boost, but also as a 5 second rest to regen the tp you just madly went through, but if you have a healer and can coordinate like our static does and calls when pacify will pop up you can insta esuna/leeches it. Even during pacified state you still have options, flash although if u used beserk you should not need to worry about hate or if you can stun a mob, guess what 1 less mob hitting you is a form of a mitigation.Also if you have yet to notice you say paladins are close in terms of dps, how, when we have maim which is a permanent fight or flight with no cooldown, that does not even count beserk, now if you are talking about you losing hate because you think a paladin OT is doing too much damage, no they just have a 1,2,3 enmity debuff combo which is all they really can do. Warrior is just fine, only change should b is that holmgang cant drop you below 20% hp, because it is broken and can much like hallowed by used to build up massive limit break.
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02-04-2014, 06:44 AMGamemakoConvalescence does not affect amount healed by HP drain attacks (Bloodbath, Inner Beast).Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseWolfHolo
That's what Infuriated abilites are for. They cost no TP and are subbed in every 6-9 attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow
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02-04-2014, 07:55 AMVeronycafirst off mook, thank you for seeing the obvious to the whole "just turn off defiance" card. a warrior without defiance is just a marauder that can wear JSE gear and has a slightly higher stat pool. aka pretty terrible in any light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mook_Mook
Paladin can do the same, and still par-parse a warrior.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
See above. Taking off defiance, which fuels every single warrior ability, thus making us effectively NOT a warrior, should not be the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
Fracture: 360 total potencyQuote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
Phlebotomize: 330 total potency
i shouldn't need to point out the obvious, that a dragoons 330 potency will deal 2-3 times that of the warriors 360 potency. Also phlebotomize is on a much shorter duration, which makes it possible to use on trash.
not even going to argue bard DOTs. they deal less damage on paper but critical way more often, and proc bloodletter, making them into utility.
its been parsed. the damage difference is so miniscule its sickening.Quote:
Originally Posted by FelisC
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02-04-2014, 09:45 AMAbigs
turning defiance off isnt simply the solution to all this since you lose 25% of your HP where paladins dont lose anything.. turning on defiance does not heal you for 25% of this HP.. therefore its much riskier swapping tanks with the warrior toggling defiance on and off
also, you lose all your wrath stacks by turning defiance off.. sometimes you need a buffer for aggro (steel cyclone) or buffer for damage (inner beast) when swapping so yea defiance switching isnt always the best answer -
02-04-2014, 10:00 AMGiantbaneIt's not the TP cost (even though it's high) that's the real problem. The extra damage from fracture is of questionable benefit. The DoT portion (2/3 of the damage) does not benefit from the Storm's Eye buff, so the potency of the attack isn't as good as you'd think. It also means that you're sacrificing either 100% up time for that Storm's Eye debuff (even more of a penalty with another tank in the group) and/or not using another move that could be adding to your wrath stacks (another 2% crit, access to wrath moves, etc). I rarely use it anymore, even if I have TP to spare.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
Oh, AND the TP cost is expensive. -
02-04-2014, 10:07 AMGiantbaneis it? I thought dots tick every 3 sec. Fracture is 100 initial potency, dot lasts 30s (10 ticks) for 20 potency each. 300 potency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
right?
Both jobs are tanks, they should be doing roughly the same amount of damage whether tanking or DPSing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
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02-04-2014, 11:29 AMLordSideKicksI loled so hard I almost cry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mook_Mook
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02-04-2014, 11:35 AMThoraukuThe chain was long enough for you to move around isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotek
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02-04-2014, 12:18 PMSotekYou seem to have missed the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorauku
You attach the chain to them, and pull them in so they cannot move while you're holding the chain. You're not chaining them to the ground, you're chaining them to yourself; if you move, they're going to be dragged along behind you. It's like if you put a dog on a lead and then pull in the lead such that the dog can hardly move. I doubt the developers could successfully work that, so you're both just bound instead. -
02-04-2014, 01:28 PMFelisCAll the parser numbers I've seen show WAR with a clear advantage with similar ilvls. Maybe it's a playstyle issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
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02-04-2014, 02:23 PMReiszRieuntrue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
WAR throws out more DPS than PLD even with Defiance, and yeah it has been parsed since I have both WAR and PLD at i89 and 90 respectively
There is nothing wrong with WARs, the only problem is the player's own abilities. -
02-04-2014, 02:27 PMReiszRieTurning off Shield Oath loses 20% damage reductionQuote:
Originally Posted by Abigs
Maim > Storm's Eye > Unchained > Berserk > Inner Release -
02-04-2014, 02:40 PMPArcherYou do know you just confirmed what I said, that Fracture is not the most costly TP DoT...Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
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02-04-2014, 03:55 PMGamemakoThe answer to what? WAR is a tank, not a DPS. If you want a DPS, play a DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
Uhh... no. Fracture is 300 total potency (100 up front a 10 ticks of 20 thereafter). Fracture is so bad that I almost never use it on WAR. Costs too damn much TP. Would rather maintain buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
Actually more like 15-35% more depending on WAR equipment choice. WAR also gets bigger damage buff (20% vs. 15%).Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronyca
//EDIT:
While not tanking, they're basically identical. Sword Oath brings PLD in line with MRD DPS. While tanking, it will depend on your rotation. For max DPS, a WAR will do a BB/SE rotation. Compared to RoH-spam PLD, that comes in around 20% ahead. In reality, you're using BB/SP rotation for that debuff, which puts WAR and PLD pretty close over time (WAR will have a 10% lead or so while just attacking, but FoF is straight-up better than Berserk).Quote:
Originally Posted by FelisC
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02-04-2014, 04:12 PMDeadRiser
I remember back in the day when SE said that in 2.0, Warrior's can tank or dd. :(