People abandoning after 2 tries.

This kind of mindset needs to stop because all it is doing is wasting time for the dps and being annoying for healers and tanks. I honestly think the abandon vote is the worst thing that SE has ever implemented in this game cause now if you dont beat it in the first 2 tries people will vote to abandon because that gets you anywhere totally.

Well at least it's improving, used to be after only 1 try :p

Depends.
When u do a pf for a primal required experienced players only and people fall after 2 landslide there is no need to continue past 3 tries...
But for most content i agree, especially when very close to clear

its very normal people are seaking easy win or try be carried pass something.

This kind of train of thought of it being "normal" needs to stop. its just a waste of time to do that.

Then start making PF groups with the header "Only join if you intend to stay after several wipes."

Problem solved.

Abandon should not be allowed after a single attempt.

Did a CT run the other day and after a single wipe the notice pops up, I reject, so did most others and we carried on.

Wipe again, box pops up, reject, on we go, making more and more progress as we go.

This must have happened on at least 6 more occasions on the same run, eventually 1 player quits and someone else comes along.

We wipe yet again, but after that it was completed, total time taken 40-45 mins approx.

People dont seem to have the stamina these days, its a lazy way of doing things, hoping for the perfect team to breeze through instead of helping others and enjoying the struggle.

I come from the days of actual arcade machines, where everyone died and had to learn the long way, sometimes a queue of over an hour just to get to your turn.

Now its "youtube the tactics before learning for yourself or I dont want to be in a team with you" - thats not the way I am made

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Then start making PF groups with the header "Only join if you intend to stay after several wipes."

Problem solved.

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lol that heading sounds like my Titan HM attempts x.x I'll beat it eventually! :o

It's ok to abandon after 2-3 wipes in some place like Titan and Coil. It's not something you can expect people to learn it after 2-3 wipes. I will keep trying only if everyone knows the fight but just need to be tuned up their teamwork.

It's always someone else's fault isn't it.

Anyways waiting 2 attempts is way too long to vote abandon, I mean who has time to wait for two attempts.

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Originally Posted by Skotie

It's always someone else's fault isn't it.

Anyways waiting 2 attempts is way too long to vote abandon, I mean who has time to wait for two attempts.

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Statement: It is when a BLM parses south of 100 DPS, a Healer gets knocked off every attempt, or a tank doesn't grab adds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skotie

It's always someone else's fault isn't it.

Anyways waiting 2 attempts is way too long to vote abandon, I mean who has time to wait for two attempts.

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Hey if you are the type who think you can destroy the wall by bashing your head against it, by all means stay the whole duration. Maybe that next headbutt on the wall will give you that victory.

The better/more experienced a player is the more easily they can identify mistakes and see how serious they are to their chances of winning. Don't expect people to endure your/others mistakes more than 3 times unless the fight is going reasonably well (past 50% at least). DF is already a negative place because people tend to use it for learning since they don't have the same level of pressure as someone joining a server based group.

There are far too many intolerant players in this game, and it's starting to hurt it. There are plenty of people who are still learning the mechanics of particular fights and haven't had first-hand experience despite that they've watched a video of the strategy. The mentality now is that you have to have cleared any given content at least a dozen times before anyone will even consider you for a spot, which excludes anyone who hasn't already run that content and players levelling a new class or role for the spot.

Honestly, if that's the game you people enjoy then enjoy watching FFXIV become a distant memory with a skeleton crew of players still clinging onto it. I've seen many MMO's go down this same route, and ultimately they fail not because of the content, but because of the community.

You are exactly right Lemuria. The funny thing is that the game honestly hasnt even been out that long for everyone to be all elitist and shit like they are currently.

It has nothing to do with that Lemuria. Its about the bad players who refuse to get better. I have no problem with a new players who is willing to try their best and learn. Its the people who go afk during CT, the people during Titan who don't bother to dodge stuff, the people during dungeon runs who just sit in reticles and eat it, etc.

Casuals have cried and whined and pretty much have killed the MMO genre over the last 10 years. They have dumbed down these games to the bone to appease the baddies.

I don't have time to group. Ok we will make 95% of the game soloable with silly stupid fetch quests. We will make it so you can level super fast.
I don't have time to make friends. Ok we will but in a group finder and slim it down to 4 man group instanced dungeons.
I don't have the new tech to play the game. Ok we will make the game run on the 8 year old toaster PS3.
This end game content is too hard! Ok we will nerf it so you can clear it.
The overworld is to dangerous! Ok we will make it where most of the mobs don't agro, thin out of population, shrink the world size, and put in a ton of teleport spots. We will also only have mobs chase you 10 steps before giving up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nysneirdre

Casuals have cried and whined and pretty much have killed the MMO genre over the last 10 years. They have dumbed down these games to the bone to appease the baddies.

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Casuals didn't ruin anything over the last 10 years.

As for the rest of that stuff, are you seriously blaming casuals for that?

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

Casuals didn't ruin anything over the last 10 years.

As for the rest of that stuff, are you seriously blaming casuals for that?

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Take a step back and look at the whole design of the game in general and others that have released in the last couple years.

Look at how you generate your character....the very few options to select.
Look at how they design the zones. The size of zones, the layout of mobs, the way quest hubs are designed. Look at how they design a vast majority of quests.
Look at how simplified classes are.
Look at the map they put in the game along with quest markers. They lead you right to the spot by the nose. There is no thinking involved.
Most of the game is soloable until end game.
They don't even teach you how to work in a group together until late in the game with mechanics that finally scale up in difficulty. They don't prepare you for it.

The game pretty much leads you around by the nose or with a rope around your neck until end game. Then you start a silly daily dungeon token loop grind to gear up.

They do this now because of the casual people who claim they don't have the time, the willpower, or even the drive to earn anything.
Why do you think free to play / cash shops do so well? Because casuals for the most part would rather buy their way instead of earning it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nysneirdre

anip

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Fatal error. You're claiming casual = lazy. Casual players love the game, they just don't play 6 hours a night when they get home from work. I'm a casual player with a hardcore mindset, casual is time based and not interest based. I work full time and play games when I have free time. This does not mean I am any less 'into' a game or don't bother learning because I think others should pull me through.

Please can we all stop using the word 'casual' when clearly we mean 'bad player.'

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Terius

Fatal error. You're claiming casual = lazy. Casual players love the game, they just don't play 6 hours a night when they get home from work. I'm a casual player with a hardcore mindset, casual is time based and not interest based. I work full time and play games when I have free time. This does not mean I am any less 'into' a game or don't bother learning because I think others should pull me through.

Please can we all stop using the word 'casual' when clearly we mean 'bad player.'

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That's where you are wrong. The whole design of the game is to cater to casual players that don't want a difficult experience. Hence the dumbed down aspect of modern MMOs. Casual is not just about time constraints or bad players. Its about making things less difficult, less challenging, streamlined, faster, etc.

If you consider yourself a hardcore casual that's fine but you are more of a rare type of player. IF they catered to your type, the game would be more difficult right out the front door instead of late game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nysneirdre

That's where you are wrong. The whole design of the game is to cater to casual players that don't want a difficult experience. Hence the dumbed down aspect of modern MMOs. Casual is not just about time constraints or bad players. Its about making things less difficult, less challenging, streamlined, faster, etc.

If you consider yourself a hardcore casual that's fine but you are more of a rare type of player. IF they catered to your type, the game would be more difficult right out the front door instead of late game.

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You're confusing lazy people who don't want to work for what they want, and people who simply don't have as many hours to spend on this game as other people.

There is a reason it's all about accessibility now. Angry Birds is popular because it's simple, easy to pick up, has a low learning curve, and is accessible (all you need is a smartphone, which many people have these days). People like myself despise how easy and repetitive it is, yet there are also people who are hooked enough onto it to play it several hours a day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nysneirdre

snip

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Firstly, you need to stop thinking that casual = lazy as the lovely fem roeg said below your post.
Casual simply measures the amount of time a player can devote to a game in a gaming session. It does not mean that casual players are any less isinterested or any less dedicated to the game than the "hardcore players".

Secondly, if you want to blame someone for the change in gaming as a whole in the last 10 years you should look to the Investors and Shareholders who dictate how games should be made. In case you haven't realized it yet, they all want to make more money than they invested into the project so they will continue to try to include as many different types of players as they can.

Thirdly, to address your list.
Yes, I would love there to be more features present when creating your character but the amount that is there now isn't exactly what I'd call "few options". There are sufficient options to create a very good looking character with the potential to change that character later once more options are added to the barber shop.

Moving on, I am going to assume that you weren't around for 1.0. At least the way you post it would make it seem like you weren't around for it. In 1.0 the world was truly massive, the world also featured beyond stupid mob placement but more importantly that massive world was nothing but copy+paste of terrain.
Was that a glitch in the matrix or did you just pass the same brook you saw 20yalms back?
The world right now is small and I would love it to be bigger but the way it is now is a lot better than it was in 1.0.
Players were very upset about the copy+paste terrain.
In XI, players were also very irritated by the fact that quests never told you where to go. They very rarely gave you anything for doing the quests, which while certain quests were fun to do- the majority of players didn't do them. The majority only did the quests they "had" to do in order to progress.
But for the remainder of the quests there was no incentive other than lore and there was no way to tell where you had to go or what to do- people had to go look up guides constantly. So what you ended up with was a bunch of quests the majority of the player base never did- aka dead content.

I'm not really sure where your classes information from but that is a matter of opinion and I won't debate that with you.

As far as group work- the game starts introducing you to group work at level 10 with guildhests and in case you missed that you get to go into dungeons at level 15. Sastasha is an introductory dungeon that lets you learn your role in a group as well as how to work as a team.
However, the key factor in people not socializing in parties is game design and personal preference. The current game design, does not allow for socialization via text very much. Instead, it actively encourages voice chat options.
Voice chat not withstanding there are still a great many people who simply cannot be bothered to even say "hello" when they join a group, thus the personal preference part. If you want to be social in a group- go for it, but it would require other players to actually respond to you.

As far as f2p games with cash shops are concerned, that is a whole different bowl of wax and I can't really see what relevance f2p games have here.

Anyroad, hope this clarifies some things for you.

To the rest of the people on this thread, sorry for the wall of text.

Cause the old method of someone taking the 30 minute penalty for leaving and everyone following was a way better solution to this problem...

Vote abandon is a good thing.

People ragequitting after 1-2 tries is not around since vote abandon was introduced, in the beginning people would just not care enough about the 15-minute penalty. Now it's a 30-minute penalty.

Having a vote abandon is an improvement for all of us who actually tried a duty 5+ times, and collectively decided in chat that this party was not working out well enough for the duty, and we'd be better off calling it an honorable attempt and leaving. But used to have someone have to bite the bullet and take the DF penalty although we all agreed to it.