Perfect Balance: TwS or DK?

Hello, was having a discussion regarding Perfect Balance. Ill use PB on a Boss fight, and am *guaranteed* 4 hits. With this, I go Twin Snakes - Snap Punch - Snap Punch -Demolish.
My friend, also a monk, told me he goes Dragon Kick- SP - SP - Demolish

You can also get 5 hits during a PB buff depending on latency, Skill Speed and how fast you get your GL stacks. 5 Hits will omit this question, BUT..

What do you all prefer to use between the two?

Twin Snakes adds a 10% damage buff with a max potency of 140 from Flank.
Dragon kick decreases Blunt Resistance by 10% on target, does a potency from 150 from Flank.

Assuming we are running a Light Party (with no other monks), is it more beneficial to have +10% damage or -10% Blunt Resistance? I would assume Blunt Res. but heavily depends on how much the enemy has. I tried to test on Dummies in Summerford Farm, but im sure they have little to no blunt resistance; I got slightly better results from damage buff. Any insight would be helpful!

If you do Demolish - Snap Punch - Snap Punch first, you can fit Twin Snakes and Dragon Kick.

Don't really see the need for Demolish in there since the changes to the move in 2.1.

Also, my MNK has pretty average gear and SS but I can always get 5 hits in after PB, since 2.1 i've been using DK > TwS > SP > SP > SP.

you better off doin true strike or bootshine while doin PB. it depend but i feel like after 2.1, TS does more damage than SP. and with the malee buff BS also give you good option.

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Originally Posted by Grembo

Don't really see the need for Demolish in there since the changes to the move in 2.1

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Demolish's damage over time would be increased from the stacks of Greased Lightning.

The better choice between the two listed in the OP would be Dragon Kick > Snap Punch > Snap Punch > Demolish. Dragon Kick requires Opo-opo form to get the bonus, which would require three more GCD after Perfect Balance (which gives no forms, for whatever reason), whereas Twin Snakes would only require one GCD. However, I'm not exactly sure how DoT damage is calculated in the case of Demolish (is Demolish's DoT "Blunt" damage, or simply "DoT" damage?), so the Twin Snakes benefit to Demolish may or may not be worth losing out on the Blunt Resistance for three GCD.

Sadly because of the long animation delay of Demolish, the attack sometimes fails to complete if you use it as the fifth move during Perfect Balance. Depending on your gear (and/or luck of the asinine global enfeeble/buff timer), it's possible to land Twin Snakes > Dragon Kick > Snap Punch > Snap Punch > Demolish, but you may be better off switching the last two skills around to guarantee the Demolish.

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Originally Posted by CHunterX

Demolish's damage over time would be increased from the stacks of Greased Lightning.

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Bleh, haven't paid enough attention to my MNK skills and rotation since 2.1 dropped. Didn't even know it dropped a DoT :/

I guess DK > TwS > SP > SP > Demolish would be ideal for me.

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Originally Posted by Remn

you better off doin true strike or bootshine while doin PB. it depend but i feel like after 2.1, TS does more damage than SP. and with the malee buff BS also give you good option.

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Im not using Snap Punch for its power, but for the Greased Lightning stacks (when using Perfect Balance)


On another note, nobody has yet to answer the question of which is more beneficial between +10% damage or -10% Blunt resistance

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Originally Posted by MrDiezel

On another note, nobody has yet to answer the question of which is more beneficial between +10% damage or -10% Blunt resistance

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Maybe i'm dumb but since Mnk's deal Blunt damage doesn't -10% Blunt resistance = +10% mnk damage?

Did a quick test in Whitebrim.

Out of 20 Bootshines with no buffs up I got an average of 188 damage.

20 Bootshines with Dragon kick buff, I got an average of 207 damage.

EDIT: Tried with both DK and TwS up, got an average of 226 damage. I guess both are as beneficial as each other?

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Originally Posted by Grembo

Maybe i'm dumb but since Mnk's deal Blunt damage doesn't -10% Blunt resistance = +10% mnk damage?

Out of 20 Bootshines with no buffs up I got an average of 188 damage.
20 Bootshines with Dragon kick buff, I got an average of 207 damage.
EDIT: Tried with both DK and TwS up, got an average of 226 damage. I guess both are as beneficial as each other?

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im tring to see between +10% damage and -10% blunt damage, which is better depending on enemy. Lets say im hitting bootshine (no buffs) for 400 solid damage. With +10% damage, its 440.

On the other hand, if im dealing 400 Bootshine ( no buffs, and my enemy has a total of 400 Blunt Resistance (i dont think thats real number for resistance in this game), Dragon Kick takes Resistance down to 360, which (and this is what im not sure of) would result in me doing 40 extra damage, for a total of 440 Bootshine? im just not sure how those numbers scale

Fairly sure the optimal opener for PB was Snap Punch -> Snap Punch -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish -> Dragon Kick. Pretty much gives you full GL stacks, fully buffed Demo and applies Twin Snakes to you and Dragon Kick on the target, I land this every time playing from Australia on NA servers. Placing DK first though can be extremely detrimental due to latency since you'll most likely miss out on the last hit due to not having built up enough GL stacks.

I use Snap > Snap > Dragon > Twin > Demolish > ToD as an opener. If you don't lag it works every time, you just have to be fast.

ive always used PB when i have all my buffs on, pre 2.1 i just spammed snap punch, now, i use the 190 potency rear attack then demolish for my last hit so GL doesnt fall off. that way i do the most damage.

Don't use Dragon Kick first because it doesn't apply the -10% Blunt Resistance if you are not in Opo Opo Form, which is impossible to achieve during Perfect Balance. Opo Opo is only gained through use SP or Demo, and I'm almost certain it won't apply the form if you use either of those while under the effects of PB.

I use PB>SP>SP>SP>Demo>ToD. I'm of the opinion that the faster I can get my GL3 up the better, not only for the potency increase and the increased damage from SS increase, but from the flexibility it provides. And I'd rather not apply DoTs until I'm fully stacked. I think BFB is a good option to pop right before Demo as well.

Best opener is either: DM SP SP DK TW

Or very close to it.

Cool. i will test these out sometime today. But again... +10% Damage or -10% blunt Resistance if you had to choose between one?

Depends on what you attack with next.

The blunt resist is +11% to all your direct damage and 10 higher base potency. The Twin buff is +10% to all your damage.

Basically using DK gains you 10 flat potency and then trades +1% direct damage + costs you 10% to DoTs until you recover the TW buff. If you use ToD or Demolish before you recover the Twin buff, then Twin is better. If you don't use those before you recover the Twin, then DK is better.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Depends on what you attack with next.

The blunt resist is +11% to all your direct damage and 10 higher base potency. The Twin buff is +10% to all your damage.

Basically using DK gains you 10 flat potency and then trades +1% direct damage + costs you 10% to DoTs until you recover the TW buff. If you use ToD or Demolish before you recover the Twin buff, then Twin is better. If you don't use those before you recover the Twin, then DK is better.

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thanks for the info! If you dont mind me asking, where did you get this information from as far as Blunt Resistance

It's semi-common knowledge based on the way the resist system works. Some other people tested it. Even if the testing is wrong and it is +10% instead of +11% (1/0.9), that's not a meaningful difference. The main difference is that DK does 10 more potency than TW, and the blunt% only applies to direct damage, not DoTs.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Best opener is either: DM SP SP DK TW

Or very close to it.

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Do you get the DK blunt resistance bonus if you are not in Opo Opo (i.e. still under PB?)

I prefer demolish>snap>dragon>twin>snap.

I like demolish first because if I put it last I don't get as many ticks of it off before I will reapply it again with full buffs. Having gl2 before applying the demolish might make up for the lost ticks but I haven't done the math.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Do you get the DK blunt resistance bonus if you are not in Opo Opo (i.e. still under PB?)

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I am 95% sure you do, even though that seems like an error (don't mention it to SE).

This question keeps coming up and I keep forgetting when I last tested it. I should play my Monk more often.

You do get the Dragon Kick debuff while under the effects of Perfect Balance, and Bootshine will crit if used from behind while under it's effect as well. It flat out removes all stand requirements while leaving the bonus effects in tact.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Don't use Dragon Kick first because it doesn't apply the -10% Blunt Resistance if you are not in Opo Opo Form, which is impossible to achieve during Perfect Balance. Opo Opo is only gained through use SP or Demo, and I'm almost certain it won't apply the form if you use either of those while under the effects of PB.

I use PB>SP>SP>SP>Demo>ToD. I'm of the opinion that the faster I can get my GL3 up the better, not only for the potency increase and the increased damage from SS increase, but from the flexibility it provides. And I'd rather not apply DoTs until I'm fully stacked. I think BFB is a good option to pop right before Demo as well.

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Wrong.

When you are in Perfect Balance, you gain all the Opo-opo stance bonuses without being in Opo-opo. You get the Dragon Kick debuff, the guaranteed crit from the rear with Bootshine, and the silence effect from Arm of the Destroyer.

Above answer is right. My opener on any boss(well the bosses that I've done so far). Under PB I do SPx3-DK-TwS. I tried playing with SP-TrSx2-DK-SP, but I don't get full stack of GL.

Lol ok, thanks for correcting me 4 people in a row!

I go SP > SP > Demolish > DK > True Strike. 9% damage + 5% haste > 10% damage so I prioritize getting my Lightning up first. Dragon Kick debuff only works in Opo-Opo form so if you don't apply it during PB, you won't have it for awhile. Twin Snake will be applied shortly after PB ends so its not that important to use it during PB. It will be a very very slight DPS increase to use Twin Snake instead of True Strike but I like going DK > Twin Snake and I will be using a DK immediately after PB ends so its just of matter of convenience.

Optimally I would go SP > SP > Demolish > DK > Twin Snake > (buffs) > ToD > DK > True Strike > etc.