I want to know what a non casual game is!

Pretty simple, tell me! I have played WoW (4yrs?), FF11, SWTOR, some GW...and from what I am told, all are pretty casual.

Look at the one thing those all have in common

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Originally Posted by Blunx

Pretty simple, tell me! I have played WoW (4yrs?), FF11, SWTOR, some GW...and from what I am told, all are pretty casual.

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When did you play FF11?

Have you tried NES games?

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Originally Posted by Blunx

I have no clue...fun?

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I'll give you a clue: It starts with an M-...They're MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Holyhunter

Look at the one thing those all have in common

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I have no clue...fun?

Day-Z!

/10char

The only true hardcore i've ever come across is in DDO, with people who play strict perma-death. it's self imposed, nothing forced on others, but if their character dies, they delete them and all the gear. Yes, even if "killed by lag". They also can't buy gear on the AH, only use what drops for them. That's about as hardcore as i've seen.

EvE might be thought so, but meh, never really found it that hardcore, just annoying. You also won't see many games focusing on hardcore players, as that isn't where money is, regardless of what the hardcore people think.

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Originally Posted by Magis

When did you play FF11?

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when it dropped on 360...played for like 6months (actually my first mmo)

Pretty much all those now could be consider console games slap on mulitplayer because pretty much solo everything and I personally suggest changing MMO genre to MMOC (C= casual) or MMOT (T=Themepark) because thats either what they have became or was released as.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Have you tried NES games?

I'll give you a clue: It starts with an M-...They're MMO's.

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More specifically, themepark MMOs

you aren't going to find non casual games here

Casual/Hardcore just used to represent styles of play, now it's some pointless civil war fought by groups that have no self esteem and can only find a feeling of superiority through constantly declaring the other-side to be inferior. There are "casual" players who put in 60 hours a week all the while fuming about hardcore players, there are hardcore players who finish up their server first kill and only raid one night a week after having all the hardmode content on farm.

The idea that there aren't "casuals" who played Ultima Online or EVE is ridiculous. You can play anything hardcore OR casual. It's a ridiculous line in the sand to draw and only people who don't know what they're talking about it do it.

Ultima Online, Before Trammel/Felucia crap = Hardcore

Ultima Online was, Everquest was, FFXI was... Legends of Kesmai was.. not sure how any of those are now. Kesmai is only on private servers now.

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Originally Posted by Staris

Ultima Online, Before Trammel/Felucia crap = Hardcore

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Though people still played the game casually. I mean no one really raised with Spellcasting legit, they all used a script. So what's the fundamental difference between UO and a game where it's easy to level? How does having skill gains being so slow that you simply cheated make that game more hardcore? Are you suddenly being casual when you use that program to raise your Spellcasting?

Hardcore MMOs required a large time investment to accomplish most things while casual MMOs don't. I'm not saying what's better or not but that is the main difference. I'm sure most people including the OP realize this and this thread was made just to create drama.

I'm of the opinion that the casual/hardcore distinction is no more than a false dichotomy. I've played FF xi for seven years as a casual hardcore and never suffered from it, as have a majority of other players I've known there. And I have only known a mere handful that could be called 'Hardcore'. The majority of game play considered to be 'Hardcore' is the kind of repetitive tedium I would term 'unfun' in polite company.

That's just my 2 gil, though.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Have you tried NES games?

I'll give you a clue: It starts with an M-...They're MMO's.

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I was gonna say Metroid :(

EVE Online can be very punishing, but I wouldn't call it hardcore. It mostly just promotes a very risk-averse playstyle, all the while calling anyone who isn't risk-averse a newb and murderballing them while stealing their stuff... and then splitting it with the other 18 people who helped you kill one person.

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Originally Posted by Worm

Casual/Hardcore just used to represent styles of play, now it's some pointless civil war fought by groups that have no self esteem and can only find a feeling of superiority through constantly declaring the other-side to be inferior. There are "casual" players who put in 60 hours a week all the while fuming about hardcore players, there are hardcore players who finish up their server first kill and only raid one night a week after having all the hardmode content on farm.

The idea that there aren't "casuals" who played Ultima Online or EVE is ridiculous. You can play anything hardcore OR casual. It's a ridiculous line in the sand to draw and only people who don't know what they're talking about it do it.

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Bravo to this. It seems that the more people play MMO games, the more acute the division becomes. MMOs have become the past time of so many people now from kids to retirees. It is no longer the niche market of 15 or so years ago.

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Originally Posted by Kaaylryn

Bravo to this. It seems that the more people play MMO games, the more acute the division becomes. MMOs have become the past time of so many people now from kids to retirees. It is no longer the niche market of 15 or so years ago.

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Well I think it always was a diverse market, plenty of people of all ages and backgrounds played UO and EQ. Things just weren't as focus grouped. I don't mind if games get easier (I like FFXIV's puggable raids for example) but it's important to remember that neither EQ or UO(not that I remember high level combat super well) had the kind of rotation/skill impetus that modern games have. Those older games were difficult in different ways. People are just mistaking correlation for causation. I think people now have a real expectation of being catered to, which is silly. You'll see people who want to be able to progress by playing 60 minutes a week, then on the other hand you have people who aren't happy unless it takes 60 hours a week of raiding to progress.

The silliest thing is that the guy who wants the 60 minute progression isn't going to play, and the guy who wants the 60 hours probably won't progress. It's a silly division, people are set against themselves for no good reason.

Demon/Dark souls series would be what I call "Hardcore" game as it clearly caters to an experienced gaming crowd who enjoy online pve/pvp, immersive story and lore and a deep battle system with tons of customization. This game literally says "Yeah I'm so hard so what? deal with it!" I already have the CE edition pre-ordered and I'm currently debating if I should continue playing FFXIV on the side or just stop entirely when DS2 comes out.

Try "Don't Starve" on PC/Chrome, you will probably rage quit

Depends easy content Casuals but some easy content has something hard about it making it half and half.

Then you have Hard content where casuals learn to become better at things which improves their game play.

I guess you can say all MMO is casual at the start but trains people to be better to step out of the casual area.

A MMO that was easy? diablo 2.