Remove/rework the "vote to abandon" feature in Crystal Tower

Really, it's the first day that this feature is there and I'm tired already of people misusing it in Crystal Tower. I was with a full party made with my FC (7/8) and still some... "smart" guys were starting the vote all the time. Eventually we got kicked out, and I know for sure that at least 4 of us selected "No" (the rest were busy fighting, as we were in the middle of a fight, and didn't even vote at all).

Is it counting the whole alliance to decide if there are enough votes to leave, instead of the full party you're in? If it is, it should be changed ASAP to make it count only towards your full party, and also that the vote can't be started every second. There's enough trolling going on in CT as to give those guys another tool to screw and/or annoy everyone else.

Thanks.

That's nothing wrong with the Vote Abandon, there is something wrong with the people who are misusing it. Square can't know of the immaturity of MMO players can they? They do their best to accommodate everyone, next patch they need to work out how to stop people from being wankers then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chiramu

That's nothing wrong with the Vote Abandon, there is something wrong with the people who are misusing it. Square can't know of the immaturity of MMO players can they? They do their best to accommodate everyone, next patch they need to work out how to stop people from being wankers then.

---

You can't be serious. You must be some kind of malfunctioning robot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chiramu

That's nothing wrong with the Vote Abandon, there is something wrong with the people who are misusing it. Square can't know of the immaturity of MMO players can they? They do their best to accommodate everyone, next patch they need to work out how to stop people from being wankers then.

---

Actually Square should know the immaturity of MMO players and deliberately build systems to prevent them abusing it. Most other MMOs have their game systems designed to minimise potential abuse... it's common sense design. SquareEnix tend to completely overlook really obvious abuses though, such as votekicking during loot rolls (which was fixed today) and players abandoning CT runs when they get their loot.

It is SE's responsibility to ensure they do not give trolls tools to ruin other people's play experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yshnal

I was with a full party made with my FC (7/8) and still some... "smart" guys were starting the vote all the time.

---

Sounds like you should probably leave your FC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nukocafe

Sounds like you should probably leave your FC.

---

Sounds like I'm the leader of said FC where everyone was really pissed, as the votes were being started on another ali (they were trolling in ali channel, saying "this is over" and other super "mature" things/"jokes" that I'm not going to repeat here, as well as complaining when the vote was rejected a couple of times).

Thanks for your extremely useful input, tho :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

Actually Square should know the immaturity of MMO players and deliberately build systems to prevent them abusing it. Most other MMOs have their game systems designed to minimise potential abuse... it's common sense design. SquareEnix tend to completely overlook really obvious abuses though, such as votekicking during loot rolls (which was fixed today) and players abandoning CT runs when they get their loot.

It is SE's responsibility to ensure they do not give trolls tools to ruin other people's play experience.

---

A good troll can find ways to use ANYTHING beneficial for the general population against them. You're all looking to have your hands held through the dangers of the public, when in reality for such an instance, the punishments should just be ridiculous. Complete ban from the game for proven misconduct. That's epic hand-holding safety. Make it clear they will not tolerate any degree of abuse towards features/functions. People will still do it, but a significantly lower amount of instances will occur.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

A good troll can find ways to use ANYTHING beneficial for the general population against them. You're all looking to have your hands held through the dangers of the public, when in reality for such an instance, the punishments should just be ridiculous. Complete ban from the game for proven misconduct. That's epic hand-holding safety. Make it clear they will not tolerate any degree of abuse towards features/functions. People will still do it, but a significantly lower amount of instances will occur.

---

People will always steal from others so why make laws to try and prevent as much of it as we can?

Just to point a couple more things:

- The decisive vote was started and succeeded only when we were mid fight and some people couln't vote because they were busy doing their work (so it timed out in 30 sec.). You shouldn't be able to start a vote in combat, and timed out votes shouldn't count as a "yes", if they do.

- The vote was being started in another full party, yet it affected everyone else. If you start a vote to abandon, it should only affect your current full party, not the whole aliance. If other full parties want to leave, they could always start their own vote. In our case, at least 4 out of 8 players in our full party voted "no" (and the rest timed out), so we should have stayed in the duty even if the other two full parties left, and only leave when we actually wanted to.

- There's no way that we should be able to start another vote right after the previous one was rejected. If a vote is started and it fails, there should be a CD until it can be started again by anyone in the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

A good troll can find ways to use ANYTHING beneficial for the general population against them. You're all looking to have your hands held through the dangers of the public, when in reality for such an instance, the punishments should just be ridiculous. Complete ban from the game for proven misconduct. That's epic hand-holding safety. Make it clear they will not tolerate any degree of abuse towards features/functions. People will still do it, but a significantly lower amount of instances will occur.

---

By your logic it is never worth making any attempt to prevent any crime because someone will always find a way...

FYI making it harder to commit crime in the first place does more to reduce crime than enforcing harsher penalties. It is the same in this instance. If you fail to understand that then I fear I cannot help you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chiramu

Square can't know of the immaturity of MMO players can they?

---

10 minutes looking through these forums would clearly set the bar for none. :)

This literally removes any motivation I had to run CT this week. Trolls in CT were bad enough before this. GG SE. Out of the mountainous heaps of suggestions I see on these boards, I hardly see how this got enough development time to make it to 2.15 over everything else.

Obviously they should've made it so you can vote to leave dungeon with no reprocussions. Not vote to disband entire party

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

This literally removes any motivation I had to run CT this week. Trolls in CT were bad enough before this. GG SE. Out of the mountainous heaps of suggestions I see on these boards, I hardly see how this got enough development time to make it to 2.15 over everything else.

---

Trolls are at an advantage because DF is completely anon. You cant blacklist a troll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grailer

Trolls are at an advantage because DF is completely anon. You cant blacklist a troll.

---

...and this goes to the basic error in SE's development of the DF. The anon nature of a multi-world DF is, in my view, the origins of our toxic community. Acting this way when there are reputational consequences would give one more pause

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

Actually Square should know the immaturity of MMO players and deliberately build systems to prevent them abusing it. Most other MMOs have their game systems designed to minimise potential abuse... it's common sense design. SquareEnix tend to completely overlook really obvious abuses though, such as votekicking during loot rolls (which was fixed today) and players abandoning CT runs when they get their loot.

It is SE's responsibility to ensure they do not give trolls tools to ruin other people's play experience.

---

Vote abandon was a feature players had repeatedly requested for in the forums and now its magically a feature that SE irresponsibly added and should be removed? damned if you do damned if you don't

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rochetm

People will always steal from others so why make laws to try and prevent as much of it as we can?

---

Laws only serves as a deterrence against stealing, there is nothing to stop anyone from stealing from you, similarly, if a player or alliance is trolling you, you can always report them to the GM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

By your logic it is never worth making any attempt to prevent any crime because someone will always find a way...

FYI making it harder to commit crime in the first place does more to reduce crime than enforcing harsher penalties. It is the same in this instance. If you fail to understand that then I fear I cannot help you.

---

What you guys are advocating here (remove vote abandon) is equivalent to banning all knives to prevent knife attacks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiszRie

Vote abandon was a feature players had repeatedly requested for in the forums and now its magically a feature that SE irresponsibly added and should be removed? damned if you do damned if you don't

---

The problem is that it has been added with many flaws, things that a lot of us would have designed another way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiszRie

Laws only serves as a deterrence against stealing, there is nothing to stop anyone from stealing from you, similarly, if a player or alliance is trolling you, you can always report them to the GM.

---

Why give more workload to GMs when it can simply be fixed forever? To use the stealing example, it would be like saying that laws aren't necessary because you can always buy a gun (because you couldn't call the police without a law protecting you). A bit overkill, if you ask me.

Not to mention that it's not only that it can be misused or used for trolling, but that the whole system design in an alliance as they work like now doesn't make sense at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiszRie

What you guys are advocating here (remove vote abandon) is equivalent to banning all knives to prevent knife attacks

---

Actually, I think that you misunderstood the thread. The system only should to be removed (in CT only) if fixing it in a timely manner (as to avoid innecessary bad blood) is not possible. I posted what I would fix in the previous page, and I think that it can be done.

Tangent aside, I think regarding alliances it would be better to have 2/3 majority rather than bare majority just because there are far more people involved. I think it's a compromise between the people who dislike being forced to restart a dungeon because or trolls or quitters or what have you, and the people arguing a simple majority is enough. Plus, three full parties, 2/3 is majority among parties, etc.

As for the vote spamming, I don't understand why there isn't a restriction on it to begin with. Once every 4h (I think that's the timer for vote kick?) is obviously too long but even once every 10 minutes to give a group some time to fail before calling it quits seems fair. Any shorter and it may continue to be obnoxious, but any longer and you deny people the opportunity to re-evaluate the situation.