Tank "Guidelines"

First, I know how frustrating (or stressful) it can be to tank a dungeon. My main is a Paladin.

However, I have seen an increasing trend of tanks (last time I seen it this bad was at relaunch) regarding agro and numbering. I don't mean an occasional pull from a DPS...I mean as soon as a DPS or healer does something, the enemy gets pulled.

1. Aggro. Please understand and learn your rotations and your agro management. For me (again Paladin advice) I always start with:

a. Shield Lob
b. Flash (2x)
c. Two combos
d. Flash (1)
e. MP combos

I never get an enemy pulled from me with this. I would recommend something like this or something you are comfortable with but please remember...one flash will not last an entire battle. One provoke is very weak...its not used to just pull him back and then you can continue to another enemy.

My best advice is to tank up with your FC in dungeons until you are comfortable. You may get away without agro(ing) things but by Brayflox you MUST learn this essential tanking skill.

2. Numbering. Maybe it's my OCD or maybe it's something else, but I have to see mobs and them being numbered. As a tank I do it to instruct the DPS to focus on each target at a time. It's also considered respectful so that a blackmage in your party will know which ones to sleep immediately without having to wait to see which enemy's lifebar is dropping. It's also respectful for the healer because if another DPS hammers on another mob the tank isn't tanking then that DPS will probably pull it...creating an additional member for the healer to worry about.

It's also good for other dps so they can just jump right in without having to see which one the tank is tanking.

I will never complain in a group. It's not my style. I would hate it if someone scorns me so I only try to give valuable advice without making the tank feel worthless. Many people in the game are always happy to help.

As a tank don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't act like you are God's gift to the sword or the ax (usually, I find the tanks who put down other DPS or healers in a dungeon are usually very bad themselves but they will try to deflect the blame elsewhere).

I hope this advice helps anyone :)

Fyi,
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...mpendium-2.0.1

Only advice I have for tanks is STOP PULLING WITH PROVOKE IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING xP

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Only advice I have for tanks is STOP PULLING WITH PROVOKE IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING xP

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Pulling is fine if you need the range AND there will be no immediate threat of anyone ripping threat off you.

Using it mid combo for no reason however...

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...d-facepalm.jpg

I will say after running with my Pally for a few weeks now, the rotations are fairly simple. I have noticed one advantage WARs have that we dont is their ability to spam "Over Power" over and over and over again to really lock in that threat. While we get "Circle of Scorn" with is on a 25 second CD we don't get the luxury of mindlessly spamming one move until we feel comfortable we have threat. They way I see it, Pally were designed for MT-ing bosses and single targets. WARs were designed for multi-target purposes.

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Only advice I have for tanks is STOP PULLING WITH PROVOKE IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING xP

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It is the longest range ability we have. I pull with it all the time, but then I usually follow it up with a flash or a lob.

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

one advantage WARs have that we dont is their ability to spam "Over Power" over and over and over again to really lock in that threat. While we get "Circle of Scorn" with is on a 25 second CD we don't get the luxury of mindlessly spamming one move until we feel comfortable we have threat. They way I see it, Pally were designed for MT-ing bosses and single targets. WARs were designed for multi-target purposes.

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That's not how Overpower works. The TP cost is enormous, and WARs usually only have about 3 Flashes per encounter, which don't Blind. Additionally, the Halone combo is both enmity generator AND debuff in one; while the WAR's combos for enmity and debuffing are split into two different combos, making it more tricky to manage hate while debuffing enemies although they have less damage mitigation than a PLD. But if you want to over-simplify it, yes, PLDs are usually good MTs for hard-hitting bosses, WARs are great at holding down groups.

Also, Provoke is not a good idea to use on pulls if you have a party where dps or healers tend to peel aggro easily because they outgear you. You might wanna then keep it to peel it back off and onto you in a jiffy. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

That's not how Overpower works. The TP cost is enormous, and WARs usually only have about 3 Flashes per encounter, which don't Blind. Additionally, the Halone combo is both enmity generator AND debuff in one; while the WAR's combos for enmity and debuffing are split into two different combos, making it more tricky to manage hate while debuffing enemies although they have less damage mitigation than a PLD. But if you want to over-simplify it, yes, PLDs are usually good MTs for hard-hitting bosses, WARs are great at holding down groups.

Also, Provoke is not a good idea to use on pulls if you have a party where dps or healers tend to peel aggro easily because they outgear you. You might wanna then keep it to peel it back off and onto you in a jiffy. Just saying.

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I've only played a WAR to 20 and from how I'm seeing a lot of End Game WARs, constant spam of Overpower is all I see come up on my battle feed and on my parser :/

1 - generate enmity
2 - ?
3 - profit

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

I've only played a WAR to 20 and from how I'm seeing a lot of End Game WARs, constant spam of Overpower is all I see come up on my battle feed and on my parser :/

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Technically you don't *need* to spam it. 2 Overpowers at the beginning of each pull is enough to make the mobs stick to you like glue.

The only thing I've found different between Warrior and Paladin is that I can't seem to chain groups as effectively with Warriors, than with Paladin. Due to higher TP consumption, and lack of a GCD stun.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

1 - generate enmity
2 - ?
3 - profit

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Cool so just use the Rage of Halone only? Alright! I'm ganna be a great tank.

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Technically you don't *need* to spam it. 2 Overpowers at the beginning of each pull is enough to make the mobs stick to you like glue.

The only thing I've found different between Warrior and Paladin is that I can't seem to chain groups as effectively with Warriors, than with Paladin. Due to higher TP consumption, and lack of a GCD stun.

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If you find you're having trouble with TP doing trash pulls on your WAR, be sure you're utilizing Steel Cyclone in your moveset. It greatly alleviates TP consumption problems that WARs will run into if they rely too heavily on just Overpower for all their aggro needs.


I do my trash pulls with Tomahawk or Provoke > Infuriate (if Wrath < 5 stacks) > Flash to snap the group to me and pack them tight > Steel Cyclone > Overpower once or twice > start laying into them with Storm combos. Every second or third combo drop an Overpower if the DPS is really on the ball that day and is actually getting within the same postal code as me enmity-wise.
If it's a really big pull with lots of mobs that will take awhile to finish, Steel Cyclone again when you've got the Wrath and repeat as necessary. If not, by the end of the fight you've got the Wrath ready to go for your next Steel Cyclone on the following trash pack.

The stun thing, meh. Very few things happen that I would want to avoid with a stun that I can't just step away from. I generally use my stun as a lock down button should something actually be pulled away from me during a fight (unlikely). Gives me enough time with the mob standing there in a daze to get off a Butcher's Block (combo'd if possible), use Provoke if necessary or just generally give me a moment to sort things out and pick the right tool to get things back on track. It isn't needed often enough for it to be a concern that it isn't recharged in one GCD.

My main is a dps and I kind of dislike when the tanks don't mark, so when I'm on my 23 GLD or 31 WAR I have a macro for marking that I use. I wish more tanks would practice it, though. It's not like it takes that long to do and it helps smooth things out.

#1 pull with shield lob / tomahawk.
#2 use flash / steal cyclone & then overpower / circle of scorn / flash (or the other way around)
#3 change targets and end your enmity combo on a new mob. keep doing this combo it ends rage of halone / butchers block

if someone steals aggro provoke then use an enmity move right away. Holmgang if you think you need a sec to gain hate.

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Originally Posted by RONINRAVER

great advice

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I'm looking forward to it. I'm only Level 40, but I have been farming Brayflox for the Cavalry set, so I am still stuck at Level 34 gameplay. I've heard Steel Cyclone generates even moar aggro than Overpower, so that's something to look forward to.

For chaining group of mobs as a Paladin, when the last mob is at about 20% health, I stun it, and start pulling the next group. I don't do this as a Warrior, since I use off-GCD skills whenever I can if I don't need their effects, for a DPS increase (like Paladin using Spirits Within on any fight that does not require a Silence).

Got 50 PLD and 50 WAR.

Flash spam is not a lot weaker to Overpower spam now, with the Shield Oath buff. I like spamming Overpower because it lets me dump my TP so I have an excuse to stand there and chat. You don't get that on the PLD...most BRDs don't care if you've got 0MP, so when I spam Flash so the BLM and BRDs can just AoE, I have to recover using Riot Blade for the next pack.

The Warcry-Steel Cyclone combination is also very powerful. Prep a wrath stack and do two Steel Cyclones at the beginning, you won't even need Overpower.

I wish the wrath stacks don't fall off though. The only times when I can't have a 5-stack prepped for the next pack (gotta love those double Steel Cyclones) is when someone is not keeping up. And there's nothing we can do about that. Otherwise I don't really have trouble in the current myth-farms (i.e. WP, AK, Haukke, CbM). Warcry (Infuriate for EN?) is on a 1m cooldown so it should be up every second pack anyway. I don't think I've ever needed to use Flash since getting Warcry. It's still sitting on my hotbar, but I'm seriously thinking of removing it---although it does come in handy for things like a 5% HP spiny...(yes it does happen orz)

Regarding BLM and Sleep. It's a mass sleep anyway so as long as you have 1 marked, it shouldn't cause too much trouble on the pull. Tanks should try to have 2 marked before 1 is about to die, though, so the DDs can prep for their next target. Don't wait until 1 has died to mark the next 1; aim to have 2 marked by the time 1 is at 25% or so.

My experience regarding Sleep/Repose is that more often than not in pugs, they will just cast it on whatever they happen to TAB to. I've got used to marking only 1, and then when the Repose/Sleep comes, I mark the 2 and 3 according to which one got the Repose first. New tanks need to watch out if you want to do this, though, as auto-attack will wake them up if you're tab-marking.

Back to guidelines.

Most frequent mistake I see new tanks make are these:

1. Not pulling the melee enemies towards the ranged enemies - and then trying to use Shield Lob/Tomahawk plus Provoke to maintain enmity on the ranged enemy.
2. Not using line of sight to force packs to congregate.
3. Tanking with their backside.
4. Not using cooldowns.

Although that last point is very much understandable for newbie tanks. You want to save them for real emergencies. But as you get to know the content, you'll know where you can use them. And if you can, you should.

Beyond these, I think it's perhaps best to talk about specific encounters and explain why it's best to do it a certain way. Sort of like case studies. Some people can learn from just reading guidelines; some people learn better from case studies.

The lesson here is just don't play a tank, everyone thinks they know better than you and will berate you to death over it.

People have tp issues? If it'sa rregular dungeon like wp, tomahawk, and wait for a second then over power twice, single target throw in over powerevery second ccombo. If it's a speed run I pop blood bath and unchained and bezerk and spam overpower till the trash is dead. Rarely run out of tp and with the incoming healing from. Blood bath healer can spam holy for 10 seconds or so

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Only advice I have for tanks is STOP PULLING WITH PROVOKE IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING xP

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Yah the point of pull with provoke is NOT to get hate its to be able to pull the mob DUH, I guess you are not a tank if you dont know that. Shield Lob range is extremly low and there are many situations in which you need a bigger range. So its better to pull with provoke than let a bard or a blm pull.

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

Yah the point of pull with provoke is NOT to get hate its to be able to pull the mob DUH, I guess you are not a tank if you dont know that. Shield Lob range is extremly low and there are many situations in which you need a bigger range. So its better to pull with provoke than let a bard or a blm pull.

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I let a bard pull long range ones and sweep the whole mob with one overpower

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

Yah the point of pull with provoke is NOT to get hate its to be able to pull the mob DUH, I guess you are not a tank if you dont know that. Shield Lob range is extremly low and there are many situations in which you need a bigger range. So its better to pull with provoke than let a bard or a blm pull.

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Pulling with provoke is the same as face pulling, you get 0 aggro from it. Just run up and Shield Lob it, if someone else pulls guess what? NOW PROVOKE DOES SOMETHING :O

/factchecking

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Pulling with provoke is the same as face pulling, you get 0 aggro from it. Just run up and Shield Lob it, if someone else pulls guess what? NOW PROVOKE DOES SOMETHING :O

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true story, a waste if you already have hate. provoke is to save people

I do this now when single mob tanking.
1. Lob while running to mob.
2. Start combo while running through mob. (Fast Blade)
3. Spirits Within + Scorn for a slight additional hate.
4. Flash when in position
5. Complete started combo.
6. Resume with 1 2 3 Flash rotations adding spirits and scorn when available.

*Remove Spirits if not desirable to silence.
*Reduce flash if not desirable to get hate on everything.

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Only advice I have for tanks is STOP PULLING WITH PROVOKE IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING xP

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I pull with provoke because it has a much smaller aggro radius than shield lob, as well as greater range. I could alternatively just pull everything at once, those are your options.

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Pulling with provoke is the same as face pulling, you get 0 aggro from it. Just run up and Shield Lob it, if someone else pulls guess what? NOW PROVOKE DOES SOMETHING :O

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If someone else pulls then every mob linked with their target goes straight to them.

The enmity difference between pulling a faraway mob with provoke and lobbing/overpowering/flashing when it is in range and provoking after a dps pulls and lobbing/overpowering/flashing is so negligible as to be laughable, and if I provoke to pull all the linked mobs will run to me, not a dps. And it requires a lot less coordination with dps I may not know or be able to communicate with in a timely manner.

Do I provoke every pull? Of course not, don't be obtuse. But there are situations when it's beneficial. Your counter arguments are misguided to say the least.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

My main is a dps and I kind of dislike when the tanks don't mark, so when I'm on my 23 GLD or 31 WAR I have a macro for marking that I use. I wish more tanks would practice it, though. It's not like it takes that long to do and it helps smooth things out.

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As a tank, you can bind marking targets to an unused hotbar (1, 2, 3, triangle etc etc) and bind those to keys. I use F1 for marking a target as #1, F2 for marking target #2 etc. Can very quickly mark things up mid fight when they're keybound and no need to fiddle around with macros.

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Originally Posted by WhaleBiologist

I pull with provoke because it has a much smaller aggro radius than shield lob. I could alternatively just pull everything at once, those are your options.

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Better do what he says...

He's a whale biologist!

(My life is complete. Thank you.)

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Better do what he says...

He's a whale biologist!

(My life is complete. Thank you.)

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I pull with provoke if I need extra range on pull . Usually when I need to pull boss without moving too far from the barrier like in WP speed runs .