Some reasons the game fail so BIG

There is like 3 groups players 1 2 3


1 these players want have more time sink harder mobs

2 these are pretty happy like it is

3 these want more easy faster exp easier transport movement in world


Everytime something changes one group gets happy 2 gets unhappy


other games solve this diffrent take for example starcraft 2


there you play in diffrent series and it works good

here you can also chose how many stars you want starting your leaves or how hard mobs you wanna fight but the experience cap makes no reward do it

same fight the faction NM fight more stars makes no diffrence in the reward

In starcraft 2 you meet other players if you are in highest series diamond you want to have hard competition and you get it

In FFXIV you want harder game but you get nothing for it the reward is broken exp capped

In starcraft 2 you working on you rank in game position in ffxiv you work on your character rank equipment rank

In FFXIV you do most time behest rank up there you have a mix players often from all 3 category easy medium hard players

Please remove the cap of experience so people who want harder fights atleast get reward for it

Please make NM with long spawn time also

Please make things with some hard content also without options and is there options for faction NM the reward should be diffrent also make the stones possible to drop in 1 2 3 star option if the fight is in 1 2 3 star option

Most of the people i know who left the game is old FFXI players who is tired on the instant gratification here

And the player base shows that make something so easy not helping the game anywhere

Most of my friends old FFXI people left this long time ago and my only reason to stay is i really hope there will be something in future worth staying for

Of everything i accoplished so long i feel not wery much

In FFXI every thing was feeling good you accomplished you felt you worked for it

My job for the moment is Tharmathuge and iam lucky if i need cast 2-3 spell each fight in leaves fight i almost falling asleep ranking up

More then half way to get all jobs 50 allready after that nothing to do.

SE promised to get something for both casual players and hardcore players

Please remove experience cap so people can fight harder mobs who want and atleast get reward for it

Or make a FFXI-2 anything good tired waiting for the content SE promised the hardcore people

the only thing who keep me still in the game is the crafting of +2 +3 items it make something nice to do

i have done a few +3 and that is the only reason i stay make the crafting easier will kill the little felling have left of the game

the player base drop every week maybe its time make something to reward people who want harder content or maybe time start work on FFXI-2 i dont know

but i know almost all people i know who left the game is old FFXI people and they dont even use there time on the forum here

me brain not wurk good when I think hard I get hurt.

Overall, the Purple Chested Hardcore is a dying breed. They were never the most populous of species, despite having a very loud and overpowering call. The Purple Chested Hardcore is known for it's distinct tendency to disappear when there is nothing around to actively challenge it. Purple Chested Hardcores are very needy on the food chain, requiring far larger amounts of nourishment then other breeds. This causes an environmental effect called "Starts at Max Level"fication, which causes serious damage to other species. The resources required to sustain a single Purple Chested Hardcore can tax the rest of the ecosystem, causing a severe lack of available nourishment for the middle to lower spectrum of the food chain.

The environment niche previously occupied by the Purple Chested Hardcore is now being taken over by the newly more assertive Casualbird. The Casualbird takes it's time plodding through the environment, exploring and experiencing a far more diverse diet then the Purple Chested Hardcore, which is known for it's refusal to digest anything but the most efficient fare. They consume very little in the environment, giving plenty of time for resources to develop across the entire spectrum of the foodchain. They hope to someday be able to tackle the large prey that the Hardcore can, but are content to spend months, if not years, flying around before they consider doing so.

Now, wise park rangers have started to learn that the same resources expended to attract and maintain the interest of a single Purple Chested Hardcore can easily sustain 5, if not 10, Casualbirds. And, if they are wise, they have also realized two things: Both versions crap pure golden nuggets of the same size. Thus, the smartest rangers have realized that the smart plan is "cater to the Casualbird", because it means you have far more birds pooping gold on your lawn for a much longer time.

Now that storytime is over, There will never be another successful "Hardcore" MMO. It worked when there wasn't a diverse selection of them in the market, but now that you can't even flip through a game magazine without reading about at least two new MMO games.. well, sorry. But "Hardcore" is dead, because the casual players will simply take their time, and money, to a game where they can actually feel like they're accomplishing something without needing to sit down to a 6 hour game session.

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Originally Posted by Atma

Overall, the Purple Chested Hardcore is a dying breed. They were never the most populous of species, despite having a very loud and overpowering call. The Purple Chested Hardcore is known for it's distinct tendency to disappear when there is nothing around to actively challenge it. Purple Chested Hardcores are very needy on the food chain, requiring far larger amounts of nourishment then other breeds. This causes an environmental effect called "Starts at Max Level"fication, which causes serious damage to other species. The resources required to sustain a single Purple Chested Hardcore can tax the rest of the ecosystem, causing a severe lack of available nourishment for the middle to lower spectrum of the food chain.

The environment niche previously occupied by the Purple Chested Hardcore is now being taken over by the newly more assertive Casualbird. The Casualbird takes it's time plodding through the environment, exploring and experiencing a far more diverse diet then the Purple Chested Hardcore, which is known for it's refusal to digest anything but the most efficient fare. They consume very little in the environment, giving plenty of time for resources to develop across the entire spectrum of the foodchain. They hope to someday be able to tackle the large prey that the Hardcore can, but are content to spend months, if not years, flying around before they consider doing so.

Now, wise park rangers have started to learn that the same resources expended to attract and maintain the interest of a single Purple Chested Hardcore can easily sustain 5, if not 10, Casualbirds. And, if they are wise, they have also realized two things: Both versions crap pure golden nuggets of the same size. Thus, the smartest rangers have realized that the smart plan is "cater to the Casualbird", because it means you have far more birds pooping gold on your lawn for a much longer time.

Now that storytime is over, There will never be another successful "Hardcore" MMO. It worked when there wasn't a diverse selection of them in the market, but now that you can't even flip through a game magazine without reading about at least two new MMO games.. well, sorry. But "Hardcore" is dead, because the casual players will simply take their time, and money, to a game where they can actually feel like they're accomplishing something without needing to sit down to a 6 hour game session.

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Wow lol. you seem to be confused. The hardcore player is not the dying breed- the ffxiv player is. Just so you know there are more hardcore players than you think. I started this game with 13 casual friends and 2 hardcore friends. Out of those friends 2 remain. I think you can guess which ones. This game currently has no sense of accomplishment for either groups. Casual players want goals to look forward to. The hardcore players who are decked out are usually the people that the casual players set as their goal. It has been proven in mmo's that you must appeal to both groups. If you do not appeal to the casuals you lose more people who play short term. If you do not appeal to the hardcores then you lose fewer people, but you lose people who would play the game long term. I'm not saying that some casuals aren't long term, but for the most part they tend to be on and off the game. Hardcore players are usually consistent. Basically I'm saying don't post that they should just appeal to the casuals. They need to appeal to both groups. Each is important to the game.

Gath thinks these things;
1. My opinion is that which has a heavier weight than anybody else who has an opinion, which means mine overlaps anybody else.

2. When there is a longish rant such as this one, grammar is a very nice English tool.

3. My opinion, since it's the only one that matters, states that this game is ran by hardcore players.

We progress the story forward, the hardcore players, they also get good "buyable" gear on the market, which the casuals (sheep) buy the items and make us hardcores lots of gil.

Gath has spoken, no more needs to be said, my awesome has blessed this fail of a thread with enlightenment.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by ClashBlades

Wow lol. you seem to be confused. The hardcore player is not the dying breed- the ffxiv player is. Just so you know there are more hardcore players than you think.

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Well, I'll certainly agree with you that the FFXIV players are they dying breed, but ultimately I don't even think that the debate comes down to "hardcore" versus "casual". I'll elaborate later. "There are more hardcores than you think" is a loaded statement. Are there more hardcores left in the game now? Unequivocally, yes. Are there more potential hardcores out there to entice to come back than casual players? Oh no. God no. Not by an even measurable amount.

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I started this game with 13 casual friends and 2 hardcore friends. Out of those friends 2 remain. I think you can guess which ones.

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My response would honestly be "The optimistic ones". I'll freely admit that I'm not playing as much as I'd like to, but it boils down to I'm starting to lose hope. SE just doesn't grasp the fact that weeks between large patches isn't good enough for where the game is right now, but it's not like I expected differently. It's the same thing they did with FFXI, and they seem content to not learn from previous mistakes.

If I were in charge, I'd go downstairs, upstairs, down the hall, or whatever. I'd get my developers in a room, and I'd toss a CD on the table. I'd tell them "Here's the code for the FFXI auction house system. I want a working version of this on the test servers in a week. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go tell the art team that I need auction houses in the game in a week.

It's a system we use at the place I work. We call it "FWFB". 3 of the words are "Fix What's Broken", I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on the 4th. Does demanding results guarantee them? No. But it gets you closer then "ok.. we have a 3 month timeline for determining what we're going to do to address problems with a concept as simple as players being able to buy and sell goods."

Right now, they're going house to house, replacing one rotted piece of wood at a time, with the promise that eventually the entire village will be a beautiful, happy place again. That doesn't work. Never has. Rip something down, rebuild it from the ground up, move on to the next one.

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This game currently has no sense of accomplishment for either groups. Casual players want goals to look forward to. The hardcore players who are decked out are usually the people that the casual players set as their goal. It has been proven in mmo's that you must appeal to both groups. If you do not appeal to the casuals you lose more people who play short term. If you do not appeal to the hardcores then you lose fewer people, but you lose people who would play the game long term.

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Alright, here's where I'll address the difference between "Hardcores" and "Casuals" as it pertains to FFXIV. The problem is that FFXIV needs to attract people. Worrying about who they are losing at this point is a secondary concern. Your argument about casuals can be true, but there's an important variable: your game cannot be crap. While I have hopes for FFXIV pulling itself out of that gutter in the somewhat near future, right now it's hard to argue that this game is not just in all ways bad. All around, for everyone.

The only institutions I can think of on the planet have ever been successful by focusing only on minimizing who is leaving while doing nothing to attract new patrons is prisons and cemeteries.

This is why I posted on this thread. Because it's another nonsensical "hur hur make the game more hardcore" thread. That's not what the game needs. It needs to get a solid playerbase back so they can actually start charging, making money, justify the game's existence, and then start making more content for everyone, hardcores and casuals alike. And just being realistic, once hardcore players write a game off, like most have FFXIV, they generally won't come back. Casuals, like myself, I believe tend to be more willing to give things a second shot.

I think it's evident at this point that the writing is, for the most part, on the wall. They need to get the game into a playable state as soon as possible and get the PS3 version out and take another shot trolling the pond with a net. If it fails, I think FFXIV is destined for the "Freemium" market.

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I'm not saying that some casuals aren't long term, but for the most part they tend to be on and off the game. Hardcore players are usually consistent. Basically I'm saying don't post that they should just appeal to the casuals. They need to appeal to both groups. Each is important to the game.

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I'll happily go on the record and say they should appeal to both, but not hardcores at the expense of casual players which is what usually happens. But, I have no intention to stop calling out people who cry "make the game more hardcore." Casual mechanics. Casual progression. Hardcore? That's content based.

In terms of bringing in new content the hardcore content is more appealing. This is the reason that trailers for games show end game fights. Hardcore content can give a goal for both groups while casual content only gives a goal for one group. As for hardcore players writing off games this is not really true. Because of the failure of a lot of games, hardcore players are looking for a home. This is a time of trial for hardcore players. Because no games are that appealing currently it isn't difficult to reel them back in. Regardless of what needs to be done I have the utmost faith in the current dev team. They haven't done anything to lose my trust in them.

I can agree with you that some "hardcore" content would be ok at this point. If nothing else it'd at least give people something to do. But comments like:

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Originally Posted by Original Poster

Please remove the cap of experience so people who want harder fights atleast get reward for it

Please make NM with long spawn time also

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These are the sort of comments that must be crushed, with no mercy. While the first may seem, "hey... that's a good idea though...", there are so many reasons why it is a horrible and exploitable idea.

My objection is not to hardcore content in terms of difficulty, challenge, or necessarily time it takes to progress through said content (as long as it is at max level). My objection comes in when people advocate stupid crap like "make it take longer to level", or "people can teleport too much".. these are the things that drive me crazy.

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Originally Posted by Atma

I can agree with you that some "hardcore" content would be ok at this point. If nothing else it'd at least give people something to do. But comments like:



These are the sort of comments that must be crushed, with no mercy. While the first may seem, "hey... that's a good idea though...", there are so many reasons why it is a horrible and exploitable idea.

My objection is not to hardcore content in terms of difficulty, challenge, or necessarily time it takes to progress through said content (as long as it is at max level). My objection comes in when people advocate stupid crap like "make it take longer to level", or "people can teleport too much".. these are the things that drive me crazy.

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I agree that hardcore content shouldnt be a long respawn in NM's but i would definitely go with harder content, you dont want an easy NM or easy dungeon that you can finish it at the first time, on NM's i would like it to be really difficult and not stay put in one spot fight but something more dynamic and tactical, like phases or some particular skill from the NM that you have to move around at certain points to avoid damage (not WoW clone, plz), and for dungeons i would like something progressive really hard to finish, quest involvement, with some riddles, hard fights, a need for tactics everytime not a run and kill whatever gets in your way easily, with unlockable areas, idk.

Thats what i would call a good hardcore/casual content something that would keep everyone with some sort of goal, if you make content that casuals players can finish easily it wouldnt even hold casual players to stay in the game.

One thing that i would like really and might be too late seeing last patch is that they stop giving gear from NM's and dungeons, they could give materials to make weapons and armor so the crafters would have something to do too.

thats my op.

While this game is ran by hardcores, and I'm a hardcore player with casual play time at the moment, games for hardcore players to play are a dying breed:/

no to longer respawn times, that just means afk'ing half the time, make them pop fast, heck faster then now, and then u got linkshells all fighting for nm pops allllll day long and that is what i call fun. way more fun then afk and come back every 30mins for window.

i'ma skip on the hardcore and casual convo but seriously casuals can go fak themselves and mmo company's that start following this type of gaming is crap and i dont' think i'll ever buy there games no mores. the end. ty. lol.

The drops of some of these nms are so crappy, that the spawn time is justifiable.

drop rates are shitty on the oposite compared to ffxi nm's. i don't think any nms had this good a drop rate and they all had crappy pop times. from leeping lizzy to 24hour repops they all had horrible drop rates. these nm's are a joke compared. all u need to do is say i want one and go get one and you'll have one by end of day. but they are all rare/ex and the servers are also empty so very little competition at all. fact most people will leave if any type of competition. totally oposite of what ffxi was right now.

I posted a huge reason that this game fails so big in another thread. Here's the link (#44-read):

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...802#post187802