IMO not having Auto-Attack has been the best part of the game for me....

I dont understand why soo many want Auto-Attack .. i dont get it:(

I get it, but i prefer the hassle of playing a game :P but meh, both are good anyway.

Judging by the general gravitation of most MMOs towards higher actions per minute, I doubt adding auto attack will change having to "play the game" to really put out respectable numbers and/or be an effective player. All it'll really do is give you a way to possibly avoid death if you get d/c'd or your pc freezes while fighting some random weak mob. And maybe make programming bots easier? I dunno.

I dont want to watch the game play it self..... I like it the way it is now..

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Originally Posted by TheLove

I dont want to watch the game play it self..... I like it the way it is now..

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your not gonna watch much. from the vid tp builds up and never reduces as you fight you just will be using your skills more then spaming the attack button.

But ya I perfer more action based combat instead of AA. But least it will not be like ffxi.

Again, don't base this system just off of what you've seen in the video. Yes, its Auto-Attack, but that doesn't mean the game will play itself, all it means is you will have more time to plan your actions with the rest of your party members, or more time to focus on Skill Combos, ex. Featherfoot + Simian Thrash.

Just keep pressing A on an empty macro and you can pretend you're still controlling it.

I prefer to be focusing on my action bar not having to scroll back to 1 everytime, its very annoying with a controller. And i just dont see the fun in hitting 1 constanttttttly.

You know there are other skills you can use to kill the enemy besides pressing basic attack as fast as you can.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

You know there are other skills you can use to kill the enemy besides pressing basic attack as fast as you can.

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not really the case for mages when your basic attack out damages your spells 9/10 times

I can't chat, and people rarely will in a group cause it hurts you if you take too long.
I constantly have to be pushing a basic attack to raise tp for the stuff I actually WANT to do.
I think its a good decision.
besides how exciting is pressing basic attacks, for me, not at all.

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Originally Posted by TheLove

I dont understand why soo many want Auto-Attack .. i dont get it:(

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to me the second best thing in the game. both are being taken away as the armory system and the freedom it had was my favorite. i have enjoyed being able to actually play the game and have to conserve stamina to actually fight efficiently instead of just spamming 1 like so many people love to do.

I enjoy being able to chat during a fight for strategy purposes, rather then repeatedly hitting:

1111111111111111111111111111111111111121111111111111111111111111111111113111111111111111111111112111111111

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Originally Posted by Bled

I enjoy being able to chat during a fight for strategy purposes, rather then repeatedly hitting:

1111111111111111111111111111111111111121111111111111111111111111111111113111111111111111111111112111111111

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if you have to swing that many times to get tp you may want to actually put some points into any stat and get 500 acc rings. i prefer to fight over using a party as a pickup chat room. that can be taken care of in other places than during a fight.

Don't worry. Matsui has declared that you can't possibly win a fight only with autoattack, so there's still skill in the game. Even that, the skills will be taking a balance based on the removal of the Stamina bar. We'll see what they'll turn it out =)

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

if you have to swing that many times to get tp you may want to actually put some points into any stat and get 500 acc rings. i prefer to fight over using a party as a pickup chat room. that can be taken care of in other places than during a fight.

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I would say that in a war/battle strategy, communication among your comrades is key. AA allows for communication which is key to any strategy, sure you can think of some strategy before the fight but when all hell breaks loose and that falls apart its nice being able to talk to my party to devise a back up plan.

Also i would be completely on board with the current battle system if there was more to this manual input feature. If say they were to create combos of sorts like a GLD Slash + LNC Heavy Thrust = gaping wound (a bleed affect). A innovative feature such as that would definitely help in making up the lack of communication.

The system instead takes what AA does and makes the player spam said AA action, its pointless, redundant, and a step backwards. At least in DCUO (DC Universe Online) they had combos in there manual action based combat it was a perfect replacement for AA.

If you think communicating in a battle with your party is a pick up chat room then your sorely mistaken...

Edit:

And if you say you can effectively communicate in FF XIV's current system during a battle i would say your full of sh**, unless of course your using some sort of "team speak" with your whole party.

"I enjoy being able to chat during a fight for strategy purposes" Fights in this game don't need a strategy. Its tank and spank and ohh yeh use the one or two skills that incapacitate.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I would say that in a war/battle strategy, communication among your comrades is key. AA allows for communication which is key to any strategy, sure you can think of some strategy before the fight but when all hell breaks loose and that falls apart its nice being able to talk to my party to devise a back up plan.

Also i would be completely on board with the current battle system if there was more to this manual input feature. If say they were to create combos of sorts like a GLD Slash + LNC Heavy Thrust = gaping wound (a bleed affect). A innovative feature such as that would definitely help in making up the lack of communication.

The system instead takes what AA does and makes the player spam said AA action, its pointless, redundant, and a step backwards. At least in DCUO (DC Universe Online) they had combos in there manual action based combat it was a perfect replacement for AA.

If you think communicating in a battle with your party is a pick up chat room then your sorely mistaken...

Edit:

And if you say you can effectively communicate in FF XIV's current system during a battle i would say your full of sh**, unless of course your using some sort of "team speak" with your whole party.

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talking in battle is hard, you can get out small bursts if you use up stamina and wait, or if you just pause, however when you plan ahead of time, and you play with smart people you are often surprised how well they may adapt.
Truth is a skilled party doesnt need to communicate that much in battle, when they communicate well before. I will admit we dont use most of the useful communication tools in this game any more because we are used to voice options, but look at ffxi, why do you think they had macros and tab speak, and all that jazz, so you could make key phrases and use them in battle, I didnt type in battle in ffxi much. between fights, resting between pulls back when they pulled, after you died, thats about it.

pso cmode, we played with jp people with no tab speak, and we did some crazy things. the only real answer to communication in battle is voice chat, or make battle so slow and non reactive that you lose nothing for taking 10-20 seconds to type messages.

something to think about, even if they take out AA, without stamina, in a cool down system, every second you waste typing, you are delaying the next time you can use said action, if your AA is not enough to win fights as they say, what do you think sitting on your good skills for 15 seconds while you type is doing? this isnt ffxi with 1 skill per minute, or needing only a couple macro presses during a fight. you have like 20 skills, and you get tp fast. with or without AA you wont be able to type long messages, stamina actually gave you a way to do nothing for 20 seconds, without lowering your overall dps/hate, that is gone now.

talk before the fight, mark the monsters, use macros, they gave you the tools, use them.

I don't see any difference really, spamming 1 is basically auto attack anyway.

Removal of the stamina bar is the best thing to come out of this at least.

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Originally Posted by Physic

talking in battle is hard, you can get out small bursts if you use up stamina and wait, or if you just pause, however when you plan ahead of time, and you play with smart people you are often surprised how well they may adapt.
Truth is a skilled party doesnt need to communicate that much in battle, when they communicate well before. I will admit we dont use most of the useful communication tools in this game any more because we are used to voice options, but look at ffxi, why do you think they had macros and tab speak, and all that jazz, so you could make key phrases and use them in battle, I didnt type in battle in ffxi much. between fights, resting between pulls back when they pulled, after you died, thats about it.

pso cmode, we played with jp people with no tab speak, and we did some crazy things. the only real answer to communication in battle is voice chat, or make battle so slow and non reactive that you lose nothing for taking 10-20 seconds to type messages.

something to think about, even if they take out AA, without stamina, in a cool down system, every second you waste typing, you are delaying the next time you can use said action, if your AA is not enough to win fights as they say, what do you think sitting on your good skills for 15 seconds while you type is doing? this isnt ffxi with 1 skill per minute, or needing only a couple macro presses during a fight. you have like 20 skills, and you get tp fast. with or without AA you wont be able to type long messages, stamina actually gave you a way to do nothing for 20 seconds, without lowering your overall dps/hate, that is gone now.

talk before the fight, mark the monsters, use macros, they gave you the tools, use them.

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Communication beats improvising even in the most skilled parties, as you said you mainly use voice chat well for some of us who still use macro command phrases and type the current system is difficult. AA makes communication easier (maybe not perfect) but the current system inhibits communication far too much.

I do need to macro commands more in FF XIV i agree with u there.

Cant wait to say goodbye to having to tell the game to swing my weapon for me. Annoying when im navigating menus, or typing in LS chat, and my character just stands there getting beaten on.

Immersion is fine, but too much and it gets very obtrusive.

I welcome auto-attack with 6 foot long open arms (damn my elezen looks like an orangutan)

Yes because it's so epic hitting 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 all the time. With AA, I can actually sort out my action bar properly and not so that best skills are near 1. Communication will be a lot smoother too.

I hope they are fixing accuracy as well since I'm not a fan of missing like a blind retard while I 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1.

To the people that say auto-attack dumbs down battle, please see sense... Not having to spam 1 allows more time to plan, communicate, time abilities etc

Auto-attack won't be dumbing down this game.

Everyone knows this is why most of the Zelda games flopped so hard. I mean, what were they thinking, only giving you basic attacks for your sword...

Adding auto-attack is a step backwards for the game. All it does it remove control from the player. I haven't had to spam basic attacks since I was PL10. Actually, let me emphasis this so that people might actually read it:

If you're doing nothing but spamming basic attacks, you're simply failing at combat in this game. This is not, nor has it ever been, a valid excuse/reason to wedge auto-attack into the game.

People simply want the same old system they're used to (FFXI, WoW) instead of getting used to something new.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Everyone knows this is why most of the Zelda games flopped so hard. I mean, what were they thinking, only giving you basic attacks for your sword...

Adding auto-attack is a step backwards for the game. All it does it remove control from the player. I haven't had to spam basic attacks since I was PL10. Actually, let me emphasis this so that people might actually read it:

If you're doing nothing but spamming basic attacks, you're simply failing at combat in this game. This is not, nor has it ever been, a valid excuse/reason to wedge auto-attack into the game.

People simply want the same old system they're used to (FFXI, WoW) instead of getting used to something new.

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Yeah yeah we hate all that is new and unique and only want the old stuff. We're all just doing it wrong and there are no flaws with the system. etc. etc.

Haven't heard that one before.

I like the current way but I think the stamina bar needs a lot of work for it to function right. Its laggy and attacks are quite slow when you get down to 0 stamina. So lets hope auto attack still makes it engaging and fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Everyone knows this is why most of the Zelda games flopped so hard. I mean, what were they thinking, only giving you basic attacks for your sword...

Adding auto-attack is a step backwards for the game. All it does it remove control from the player. I haven't had to spam basic attacks since I was PL10. Actually, let me emphasis this so that people might actually read it:

If you're doing nothing but spamming basic attacks, you're simply failing at combat in this game. This is not, nor has it ever been, a valid excuse/reason to wedge auto-attack into the game.

People simply want the same old system they're used to (FFXI, WoW) instead of getting used to something new.

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Ok I admit it, I only spam 1,1,1,1,1,2,3,9,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1,1,9,6,1,1,1,1,1 oh wait that's still spamming 1. Besides how is one failing at combat if one kills them mobs?

And your Zelda comparing fails. Zelda is action-adventure game and FFXIV is MMORPG. See the difference?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

not really the case for mages when your basic attack out damages your spells 9/10 times

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thats why i hope for more tweaks/changes for mages not only the animations. I rather not use any "poof-poof" lol attack.
I would love to just focus on real casting/magic.

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Originally Posted by Ruri

I like the current way but I think the stamina bar needs a lot of work for it to function right. Its laggy and attacks are quite slow when you get down to 0 stamina. So lets hope auto attack still makes it engaging and fun to play.

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the stamina bar was a very one-sided thing. Mobs didnt have it. to offer a challenge they should have it as well... but then...
lvl 70 mob, ... stamina bar... GL with that :)
i think its a good change they are doin it this way.
The system so far was the "zerg" system. AFter the zerg was over it became nothing but a wait for the next base attack.
I dunno why people are so blind and don't see this.
The stamina bar was nothing but a "start advantage" for every fight. Then you had to wait for stamina refill. hmmm where did all the fast attacks go? ... oh wait... stamina needs to refil... get it?

The stamina bar was a good idea but not thought through and due to it overpowering everyone VS the mobs (at least all non nm mobs with shit load of hp) it was easy-mode, nothing else. And implementing the stamina bar for mobs and the proper AI i think that might have been a major problem. So its better this way for future battle and battlecontent.

To me both systems work, so i'm not strongly attached to either one of them. Given how much I use at least 3 of my 4 basic attacks with my main class (PGL) I do wonder how they'll transfer those over into an AA battle system. While I personally don't prefer one over the other, I will say I will probably give the nod to AA in this game since my two qualms I have with the current system are not easily being able to communicate in a fight (yes VOIP does eliminate that problem, but i'm not always on a VOIP) and actions not getting recognized.

Granted the actions not getting recognized will still probably happen even without the 10 or so extra "basic attack" keys getting hit, but it is something that is annoying when i'm engaged with a mob currently, and will most likely happen a lot less without having to hit every attack manually. Either way both system work for me, so i'm definitely willing to get AA a shot and will probably prefer it in the long run, but I still have nothing strongly against manually attacking.

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Originally Posted by Anty

The stamina bar was a good idea but not thought through and due to it overpowering everyone VS the mobs (at least all non nm mobs with shit load of hp) it was easy-mode, nothing else. And implementing the stamina bar for mobs and the proper AI i think that might have been a major problem. So its better this way for future battle and battlecontent.

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I remember fighting mobs and they hit me once while I hit them 6-7 times. Even with auto-attack I think we will be overpowering enemies unless they change their attack speed as well.

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Originally Posted by Ruri

I remember fighting mobs and they hit me while I hit them 6-7 times. Even with auto-attack I think we will be overpowering enemies unless they change their attack speed as well.

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that might be but still this makes it much easier for them to tweak things. And its all about balance, if a mob hits hard as hell, is not that much of a prob if its a bit slower, just like 2 handed vs 1 handed weapons i think.

But as you said. Changes need to be made in every corner of the game. I think that is one of the most demanding things SE is working on. The balancing issues they had, they will be haveing with the new upcoming system etc. etc.
But im staying positive for now. SE has to prove me wrong first :D i hope they don't screw it up big time.

Changing the speed might be easier in a system with autoattack as well i think.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Communication beats improvising even in the most skilled parties, as you said you mainly use voice chat well for some of us who still use macro command phrases and type the current system is difficult. AA makes communication easier (maybe not perfect) but the current system inhibits communication far too much.

I do need to macro commands more in FF XIV i agree with u there.

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ya know with a game that needs a high end computer to run it i don't think $5 for a mic to be able to efficiently communicate is so hard. when we party in my ls you do not have to have a mic, but you do need to get into skype or ventrillo so you can hear what is being said. if you cannot get a free program to be able to communicate more efficiently you can't blame it on 1,1,1. all this will do is lead to more down time which you want to be able to type, but it will lead to a less engaging battle system.

If this game had 4 on pretty every review with auto attack for me that 4 will grow to 7.

I just hope there will be something to do besides "wait for auto-attack to fill your TP bar."

I don't know if it's been suggested already or not, but to fix people's concerns with Auto Attack, could they leave in a couple of basic attacks too? Something to help us build TP faster than just watching the screen and waiting for our TP to fill up? For example, On PGL AA could take the place of Heavy and Light strike, but they could leave in Pummel and Flurry with cool downs like the rest of the abilities. Then you could space out your AA with a Pummel and Flurry when you are trying to max out your TP gauge.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Immersion is fine, but too much and it gets very obtrusive.

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This is the one thing I totally agree with in this discussion!

R

I like to look at the current battle system allot like the legend of zelda+ system. Think about all that time your battling with Link pressing the A button, and if you stop to type something to someone to form some kind of strategy, you would get beaten to death(not that there is a keyboard in zelda, but as an example). Because of that factor, zelda could never have a communication system, AND have a battle system filled with only pressing the A button. The 2 variables, communication, and slash and bash spamming, can not work in the same equation. There for, we now must have AA, or some other form system that can still perform functionality amongst 2 most important features in a battle system.

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Originally Posted by Petori

Ok I admit it, I only spam 1,1,1,1,1,2,3,9,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1,1,9,6,1,1,1,1,1 oh wait that's still spamming 1. Besides how is one failing at combat if one kills them mobs?

And your Zelda comparing fails. Zelda is action-adventure game and FFXIV is MMORPG. See the difference?

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mmorpg has nothing to do with whether you have AA or not. rpgs havent needed AA just because EQ decided to do AA way back in the day doesnt mean every massively multiplayer game needs to use a system of automated attacks. If they ever create a Secret of mana online, or Zelda online it can do very well. role playing game doesnt mean real time strategy game.

Now, AA isnt the end of the world, but it aint really changing anything in and of itself, if you were playing the game spamming 1 button, you will probably be falling asleep in battle now. because you will have nothing to do at all. The changes they make to make battle more entertaining wont be around AA, because AA is not entertaining.

The only thing of value anyone gets out of AA is a few more seconds to type, maybe, i say a few seconds because to be honest you really didnt need to be hitting 1 on most classes all that often. you will be hitting tp attacks just as much or more, and special abilities. and if you are ranged you will be manually inputing anyhow. Write a basic attack macro for yourself if you really press 1 no less than 3 times in a row at a time.

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

I like to look at the current battle system allot like the legend of zelda+ system. Think about all that time your battling with Link pressing the A button, and if you stop to type something to someone to form some kind of strategy, you would get beaten to death(not that there is a keyboard in zelda, but as an example). Because of that factor, zelda could never have a communication system, AND have a battle system filled with only pressing the A button. The 2 variables, communication, and slash and bash spamming, can not work in the same equation. There for, we now must have AA, or some other form system that can still perform functionality amongst 2 most important features in a battle system.

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You will need to use macros, shortcuts, and enemy signs and such to be able to communicate as long as thier isnt voice option. even for FFXI it was essentially that. most talking occured inbetween or outside battle, or some one stopped doing stuff for awhile to tell every one else what to do. people are going to be playing this on ps3 in theory, ill tell you right now, going from controller to KB, is not instant. Even in WoW voice is primarily used for communication in battle. AA wont save you.

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Originally Posted by Physic

mmorpg has nothing to do with whether you have AA or not.

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Wasn't really my point. Point was that Zelda and FFXIV are very different games so comparing them serves no point.