[1019] Market Wards Small Fix

Well, this is a small addition that I think would be beneficial to the market wards. Sorry I couldnt find the proper tag. Last night I wanted to put something up in the wards. I did not want to under cut because that is a huge problem we are having atm. Being able to see all the items allows for a guaranteed undercut. What I am proposing though is that If you do decide to put the item up for the same amount as the person on the top of the list at least make it so you are guaranteed the spot at the Top. I think if people are fighting over just being at the top they might slow down in some cases with the monster under cuts.

Thank you!

EDIT: I did try going in with the same price as the person at the top of the list and for some reason I was pushed somewhere in the middle I believe, or maybe at the end of that price. I dont know I was not paying that much attention. All I know is that I was not first..

I apologize for the Bump but I wanted to see if anyone else thinks this is a good idea before it gets off the first page.

I presumed the order goes by Cheapest then Alphabetical order. Name your retainer Aaron or Acme or similar, and if your price is the same as anyone else, you'll be listed before their.

I don't think doing as you say will be a good idea, i prefer the way it work in FFXI where if you and another person list item for the same price, whoever listed first get sold first. A first in first out inventory management is superior to a last in first out one.

To be in the top of the list you should put a lower price which is good for consumers. however, I think if you put the same price, then the list will sort with the modified date. I guess

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hopecord

To be in the top of the list you should put a lower price which is good for consumers. however, I think if you put the same price, then the list will sort with the modified date. I guess

---

Yeah but ultimately what people want is to be on the top of the list and they are undercutting very bad to get there. So why not give people a reason to set a decent price and not undercut?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

Yeah but ultimately what people want is to be on the top of the list and they are undercutting very bad to get there. So why not give people a reason to set a decent price and not undercut?

---

I'm not sure they care about being at the top of the list. I think what they really want is for their stuff to sell, so they undercut to achieve that. That's why I undercut when I do it, anyway.

Yeah but in theory if your at the top of the list with the same price why would you choose the second guy?

Exactly. That's why I undercut.

Edited for clarity: If I would automatically go to the top of the list by setting the same price as the lowest guy, I'd still undercut.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

Yeah but in theory if your at the top of the list with the same price why would you choose the second guy?

---

Why should you be chosen over the second guy in the first place? He's been there longer than you.

In your system, people will be making trips to their retainers all the time just to "refresh" their prices in order to show up at the top of the list, increasing server activity and making the system more unstable.

The older style of first-to-sell-goes-first would be fairer and have less server impact.

I will always undercut. And I will undercut by a considerable margin, if i'm still making a profit. I don't need inventory sitting around in my retainer, so the quickest way to sell will always be undercut by a wide margin. It discourages others from undercutting me, when they see a gap between my price and the next lowest.

When the mats for a synth i'm grinding on are 1/3 of what the finished product sells for, i see no reason to maximize my profit. Especially if i'm going through a lot of synths. If something cost me 3-5k gil to make, and the lowest is selling for 15k, i'm going to undercut to 10-12k and sell/make as many as i can as fast as i can.

Undercutting is not a problem. What this thread is suggesting is similar to price fixing. "Let's all set our price high, and the first person to list it, will sell."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zoozoo

I will always undercut. And I will undercut by a considerable margin, if i'm still making a profit. I don't need inventory sitting around in my retainer, so the quickest way to sell will always be undercut by a wide margin. It discourages others from undercutting me, when they see a gap between my price and the next lowest.

When the mats for a synth i'm grinding on are 1/3 of what the finished product sells for, i see no reason to maximize my profit. Especially if i'm going through a lot of synths. If something cost me 3-5k gil to make, and the lowest is selling for 15k, i'm going to undercut to 10-12k and sell/make as many as i can as fast as i can.

Undercutting is not a problem. What this thread is suggesting is similar to price fixing. "Let's all set our price high, and the first person to list it, will sell."

---

You and people like you are the reason stuff sits on your retainer for 3months. There is always someone who thinks just like you that bombs the price of many items. When things should be worth something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cutriss

Why should you be chosen over the second guy in the first place? He's been there longer than you.

In your system, people will be making trips to their retainers all the time just to "refresh" their prices in order to show up at the top of the list, increasing server activity and making the system more unstable.

The older style of first-to-sell-goes-first would be fairer and have less server impact.

---

People make trips anyways to see if things sell. At least this way the item still retains some worth. Why do people undercut so it sells quicker. If your name is at the top of the list it would sell quicker than if you name is at the bottom.

Hmm. . . Silver Arrow mats cost 10 gil/arrow to buy from the wards on my server, and that includes shards. Everyone else seems to think they should sell for 34/35 gil/arrow. You're saying if I undercut that to 32 gil/arrow, the arrow loses its worth?

Well, what I am saying is if 3 people want to sell that arrow it can become 20gil an arrow real quick. In FFXI we had a history and we put things up blind, we did not know what the other people had put the item up for. Being able to see the price for all the items up makes it even easier to undercut, and by a considerable amount. I was proposing this so it would take away some of the reason to undercut so much. Which imo is rampant. I think the price of an item should be decided on its worth not how quick you want to sell it. Ask yourself if that arrow is worth 35 gil? If it is not no one will buy any of them and the price will go down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

Well, what I am saying is if 3 people want to sell that arrow it can become 20gil an arrow real quick.

---

Which is still a 100% profit margin. I can't agree with your premise, at all. Undercutting is fine.

Even if the prices dropped to 20gil/arrow, that price wouldn't last. Mine sell fast enough at 32gil per that my retainer occassionally falls off the list as is. Now, granted, I wish people wouldn't undercut so severely when I'm trying to sell stuff, but there's not much I can do about it. If someone's willing to sell for less profit, I should be willing to either price match (same profit), or undercut. If I'm selling at-price, there's something wrong, if someone is selling at a loss, well, they might not know wth they're doing.

ETA: In response to your edit: No, the arrow isn't worth 35 gil, it's worth 10 gil. I'm selling it at 32 gil because people are willing to pay that much for my time, apparently. 32 gil is already 300% actual cost. If I wanted to sell really quickly, I'd price at ~15 gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trinta

Which is still a 100% profit margin. I can't agree with your premise, at all. Undercutting is fine.

---

I think you may misunderstand the point really. You undercut so it sells first. I am positive you dont undercut just so some lucky guy gets a better deal. If there was a way for you to sell first and not undercut you would do it in a second. That is what I am trying to get at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

I think you may misunderstand the point really. You undercut so it sells first. I am positive you dont undercut just so some lucky guy gets a better deal. If there was a way for you to sell first and not undercut you would do it in a second. That is what I am trying to get at.

---

Yeah, I'm a greedy *******. :) Doesn't change the fact that undercutting is fine, though. You just have to decide what your lower limit is and plan accordingly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Even if the prices dropped to 20gil/arrow, that price wouldn't last. Mine sell fast enough at 32gil per that my retainer occassionally falls off the list as is. Now, granted, I wish people wouldn't undercut so severely when I'm trying to sell stuff, but there's not much I can do about it. If someone's willing to sell for less profit, I should be willing to either price match (same profit), or undercut. If I'm selling at-price, there's something wrong, if someone is selling at a loss, well, they might not know wth they're doing.

---

Yes but why should you HAVE to undercut to get something to sell. It obvious people don't think its a good idea and I can accept that. However, I really do feel that an item should be priced on its worth fully. People are not smart enough to price things properly, and this is why we end up trying to sell the same item for a month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

I think you may misunderstand the point really. You undercut so it sells first. I am positive you dont undercut just so some lucky guy gets a better deal. If there was a way for you to sell first and not undercut you would do it in a second. That is what I am trying to get at.

---

Sure, probably. But there's no way for me to sell first and not undercut, so the point is moot. What you're proposing wouldn't change it, and wouldn't stop undercutting. I promise, because I'd still be doing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

People are not smart enough to price things properly, and this is why we end up trying to sell the same item for a month.

---

What I'm reading: "People won't let me rip people off indiscriminately, and that's why my stuff never sells."

lulz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

Yes but why should you HAVE to undercut to get something to sell. It obvious people don't think its a good idea and I can accept that. However, I really do feel that an item should be priced on its worth fully. People are not smart enough to price things properly, and this is why we end up trying to sell the same item for a month.

---

Let me put it this way. I could go back to selling for 35 gil per, and my stuff would still sell, eventually. Mind you, I don't think anyone else would even undercut. I'm positive they wouldn't if I put it at 34 gil, even. Problem is, people are going to post it after I do, and even if they put the same price, mine gets moved further down the list. So, I undercut--not even as much as I could--so that mine sells first. The thing is, if you undercut far enough, no one will be willing to price match or undercut further, your stuff will sell, and the price will go back to what it was before. I haven't logged on in days, but I guarrantee you the price right now is still 34/35 gil, despite the fact that I've sold ~20 stacks of arrows at 32. Undercutting may get "rampant," but there's always a lower threshold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Point_Zero

You and people like you are the reason stuff sits on your retainer for 3months. There is always someone who thinks just like you that bombs the price of many items. When things should be worth something.

---

So wrong.

If people are willing to "bomb the price of many items" then those items aren't worth their current market value, and the pricing needs to be adjusted accordingly. People who overcut and believe that they are entitled to ripping the consumer off is the real problem in this thread.

Also, the broken crafting system that pretty much screams "make 100's of the same item to rank up" is a large part of the problem. If you've got any sense, and you want to level your craft, you are focused on moving product, and not squeezing every gil you can out of a buyer. So you lower your price to a level where you feel comfortable enough that noone will undercut you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zoozoo

So wrong.

If people are willing to "bomb the price of many items" then those items aren't worth their current market value, and the pricing needs to be adjusted accordingly. People who overcut and believe that they are entitled to ripping the consumer off is the real problem in this thread.

Also, the broken crafting system that pretty much screams "make 100's of the same item to rank up" is a large part of the problem. If you've got any sense, and you want to level your craft, you are focused on moving product, and not squeezing every gil you can out of a buyer. So you lower your price to a level where you feel comfortable enough that noone will undercut you.

---

What's sad is when the two coincide, anyway. 500-600 SP per synth on arrows I can sell at 200% profit? Don't mind if I do!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

What's sad is when the two coincide, anyway. 500-600 SP per synth on arrows I can sell at 200% profit? Don't mind if I do!

---

Haha, i know. What blew my mind is how overpriced this one item was were. When i started skilling off them, they were going for ~1400 each. You get 12x each synth, and the synth costs 4-5k including crystals. That's 10-12k profit off of one easy synth, that you use for skilling up.

Naturally, I undercut to 1000 each, and sold off my 10 stacks in less than a day. Essentially doubling my gil invested for skilling up a craft. Would an extra 100k or 200k really be worth the uncertainty of me not moving my product? I say no.

/sigh, another OP who have no idea how market work and wondering why they can't make easy gil... You should already be grateful if you can get more than a 10% return on your investment within a week, it's a better return than Warren Buffett can ever dream of (10% per week is a 14200% return on your investment per year).