How long should content take?

There has been a lot of threads lately about the climate being very toxic and players feeling left out, being vote kicked just because they failed something once etc. Often you can read that the most impatient players want a "quick win" to get drops etc. Extreme primal fights, Ultima HM, Coil and CT are examples.

Here's the thing though. When housing prices were announced and a lot of people were so disappointed because it would require massive amounts of grinding to be able to buy one, there were those that said that that we shouldn't whine so much, it should be difficult to get something as nice as an FC house and grinding is part of the fun.

I haven't seen one such post about the toxic game climate, saying that grinding the endgame content with newcomers is part of the fun. Why not? What's the difference between grinding for a house and grinding for a drop? Having new people there is part of the game, the game is for everybody, it's not made for an exclusive clique.

I hope that the players expecting quick wins and drops and are rude to others as a consequence aren't the same ones as those saying daily grinding for a FC house for 3 months is totally acceptable. But sometimes it feels like it.

So, how long should content take? If some think that housing is allowed to take 3 months at the very least, some up to a year, shouldn't the same be said about beating the extreme primals? 3 months at least? Would that be totally unthinkable? If it is to you, and you still think housing should take 3 months, can you understand the people who really wanted housing in a month's time maximum?

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Originally Posted by TatamiTami

So, how long should content take? If some think that housing is allowed to take 3 months at the very least, some up to a year, shouldn't the same be said about beating the extreme primals? 3 months at least? Would that be totally unthinkable? If it is to you, and you still think housing should take 3 months, can you understand the people who really wanted housing in a month's time maximum?

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I don't know how long the content should take, but I know one thing for sure.
This game should totally stop being P2P and going F2P as soon as possible.

Three months for housing? I'm fine with that.
~36 Euros before seeying housing? No thanks.

They are not just wasting my time, they are wasting my real money. If I want to be stolen from, RMT is there for the purpose. SE should help us, not drain us from Gil AND Real Money.

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Originally Posted by TatamiTami

I hope that the players expecting quick wins and drops and are rude to others as a consequence aren't the same ones as those saying daily grinding for a FC house for 3 months is totally acceptable. But sometimes it feels like it.

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Of course they're the same people, the typical selfish and seld-centred MMO player of today .. aka. Generation Y and younger.

EX Primals do, in fact, take 3 months for most players. Lots of players aren't even past HM Titan.

Similarly, some guilds can already afford housing :\.

I'm not gonna whine because IDGAF about making gil, unlike the people I know with >50m gil in the bank.

Well if the climate is toxic, I better stop playing in the rain. Hue.

I personally think content should take a reasonably long time. But this isn't that kind of game, this game was designed for casuals so everything is going to be quick.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

I personally think content should take a reasonably long time. But this isn't that kind of game, this game was designed for casuals so everything is going to be quick.

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I agree with the "reasonably long". But housing means you have to grind hours everyday for at least three months. That's not reasonable to me. And about rude people ruining the gaming experience in DF, it's usually because some are very impatient and want to clear the instance an hour ago :P I think there needs to be some balance between how long content should take, just because it's a dungeon or trial doesn't mean it has to be quicker than housing and the other way around.

content should last almost to the point of the release of new content.. which is the point of lockouts etc. If not, most people would be finished with it in a week or 2, and then as time goes on, there wouldnt be anyone left to do the content later. In a game in this early stage where there is only a small amount of content, if everything is completed in a week, you cancel your sub. It would be like if netflix had 5 movies and you watched them all.. keep paying for it? no.

As far as housing goes, lots of people asked for earning gil to have a purpose. They want goals that you can make progress on instead of relying on RNG for a long time. Think of gil as tokens, and you just need ALOT of tokens to get your house. Sad thing is what this is doing to the economy. Some people in the MMO community still enjoy working towards a goal, without medium to long term goals, the game has 0 purpose.

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Originally Posted by TatamiTami

Snip.

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I think the whole housing thing went south because he made things too easy to obtain, crafting, rare gatherables, good drops being untradeable, etc. I think if things weren't so easy, then the housing prices wouldn't seem so far fetched. That's error on Yoshi's half, maybe he'll address it eventually and fix something.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

content should last almost to the point of the release of new content..

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So why do a lot of players want to beat all the new content NOW NOW NOW? And not include everyone in the battles? The game is more fun the more players stay subscribed. We should help each other and be nice so that everyone gets to play the game as they want. That way everyone has more fun.

because they want to burn through the content.. and then they'll cry about how theres nothing to do. just because a majority wants it doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Be honest. if you could get all of the coil and myth gear in a week or 2, and then all of the CT gear in another week or 2, would people honestly still be playing knowing they wont have any new content for another 3 months? (that will also last 2 weeks)

Reasonably long, and on the flip side a ton of the people complaining were expecting to have the biggest and best house right when it was released. Everything in this game is handed to you as it is, everything is easy to obtain. You can beat the majority of all the new content released in a week if you have the group for it and I personally think that's far too short. Beat all the content in a week and repeat until the next patch where you finish all the content on a weekly basis. Its like they think we are as simple minded as a goldfish swimming in its bowl passing that little plastic house over and over saying "oooo look a plastic house" every time we see it.

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Originally Posted by Taekrys

I don't know how long the content should take, but I know one thing for sure.
This game should totally stop being P2P and going F2P as soon as possible.

Three months for housing? I'm fine with that.
~36 Euros before seeying housing? No thanks.

They are not just wasting my time, they are wasting my real money. If I want to be stolen from, RMT is there for the purpose. SE should help us, not drain us from Gil AND Real Money.

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It is your problem if you pay only for housing. Why not take a rest for 2 or 3 months if nothing than housing interest you ingame?

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Originally Posted by Felis

It is your problem if you pay only for housing. Why not take a rest for 2 or 3 months if nothing than housing interest you ingame?

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Exactly what i thought.. since when is SE.. or any company NOT in the business of draining our real money? If you judge your MMO experience by how much is handed to you in relation to your subscription costs, you should go back to those free games and throw money at the cash shops. Its also pretty well known that people end up tossing more money per month at a f2p game due to cash shop roulette than they spend in a p2p

Well, in XI, Sky lasted from Zilart until when Abyssea came and destroyed the game. So if it could just last 1/10th of the time as sky did, it would be good. Unfortunately, that won't happen.

Casual starting out. Casual leveling all the way to 50, with casual duty finder for casual storyline content progress....
HARCORE EXTREME ENDGAME GTFO NOOB CASUAL YOU SUCK

Players are expected to casually earn myth tomes each week, and be satisfied with MUCH slower perceived progress after hitting 50 with the remaining content. It's the carrot that EVERY MMO dangles in front of you to keep you playing. Sure there's a loud, vocal portion of the population that is trying to beat everything NOW NOW NOW, but really it just comes down to how important it is for you to beat things sooner rather than later.

Try to keep the frame of mind that getting to worked up over any content or particular gear this early in the game's lifespan is silly. The level cap will get raised and all that gear will be replaced by some random guy on a farm that wants you to get him 4 radishes or something rewarding you with quested ilvl115 gear.

Honestly, there really is no time limit on how long content should take.

Each and every person takes it at their own pace. You enjoy the game most when you play it with people who take it close to your own. Merchant guilds who play the market boards, casual guilds which are jack of all trades and master of none or hardcore guilds who sit at the front of progression.

There really is no set pace. The best thing anyone should do when playing MMOs is figure what pace they like and then find people on the same page as them.

A successful MMORPG should have tiers of players at different stages of progression.

As far as FF14, at this point in time I think it should look something like this:


1-5% of the server is at "end-end game", nothing to do because they played 10-12 hours a day from when the patch was released and have mastered all there is to master. These are your ultra-hardcore players, and it's impossible to cater to them because you can't maintain a profit and supply them with enough content to last them from patch to patch.

10-15% of the server is at "end game" and are just working on vanity things like maxing out sub-classes or saving up for FC housing. These are your players who were playing a few hours a day, every day.

25-40% of the population should be at end game for their class, but have plenty of things to work on. The 1 hour a day or "weekend" crowd.

A good 25-40% of the population should be the very casual (pre-lvl 50 or hit 50 and are slowly progessing through post-50 content) players who play a few hours a week.

You should have about 10-15% of your population be new subscribers on their trial period who are testing the game out for the first time.



People are constantly going to be moving from one tier to another, and that's why it's important to continue to release new content.


If more than 5% of the community can max "everything" out before the next major patch/expansion, a developer needs to really sit down and think of better ways to release content.