PLD - Upgrade Sword or Shield to Relic +1 (Zenith) first?

Hi folks,

Just umm-ing and ahh-ing as to which relic I should upgrade first? Come reset, I'll only be able to build enough myth to upgrade one or the other. I'm in full DL barring one ring, but I'd prefer to upgrade the sword/shield first.

Am I better off with slightly more block from +1 shield, or slightly more vit/str/parry from +1 sword? Any advice is most appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Neither are worth it. You can get Allagan shield off T1 which is a joke as difficulty goes. Upgrading the sword will make an extremely small increase in agro capability at the cost of 600 myths, so not worth it until you are fully decked out.

I am an ilvl 80 PLD and I still have the original Curtana relic. You will hate yourself for doing this, believe me. Upgrade from the ilvl 70 pieces, chest 1st, head 2nd, legs feet, and then the ring that is not darklight.

The reason for doing chest 1st, is because the head drops off T5, so you probably won't be getting it anytime soon, and you can wear either the i55 helm or a crafted i70 helm until you get the AF2 head.

Te thing is the sword equivalent to Curtana +1 drops in t5 as well.
It also affects the agro generation from your flash significantly.
So its good if you want the extra agro/stats.

Technically the shield upgrade is better than the sword upgrade in terms of tanking, but as someone already said you can get the allagan shield from coils T1 fairly easily. Saves you the 300 myth.

Also armour upgrades are greater priority than the sword.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

I am an ilvl 80 PLD and I still have the original Curtana relic. You will hate yourself for doing this, believe me. Upgrade from the ilvl 70 pieces, chest 1st, head 2nd, legs feet, and then the ring that is not darklight.

The reason for doing chest 1st, is because the head drops off T5, so you probably won't be getting it anytime soon, and you can wear either the i55 helm or a crafted i70 helm until you get the AF2 head.

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this is so wrong.... on so many accounts. the chest drops off T1 So do not buy chest first. buy the helm first pants drop in turn 2 so dont buy the pants either buy the boots. But get your sword +1 before anything else. also there is no crafted helm for tank.... its body/helm combo its darksteel heavy armor no seperate helm.... you also could do the primal extreme weekly and get ilvl 90 shield as well as weapon. though its not the best option its still an option.

Tank should NEVER upgrade their weapons first, agro is not an issue and if it is for any tank they're plain terrible.

Upgrade your armour and accessories first up then go for your weapons last.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

Tank should NEVER upgrade their weapons first, agro is not an issue and if it is for any tank they're plain terrible.

Upgrade your armour and accessories first up then go for your weapons last.

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has nothing to do with holding agro but more to adding to damage more overall party dps the better the run will go. being that you can get an upgrade from chest and pants very quickly because of turn 1 turn 2 dropping them... you can get helm and boots off vendor after you up grade your sword. with 450 a week you can get pieces much faster off vendor. the weapon upgrade and helm upgrade wont come till turn 5... its best bang for your buck to get weapon helm boots first.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

So do not buy chest first. buy the helm first pants drop in turn 2 so dont buy the pants either buy the boots. But get your sword +1 before anything else. also there is no crafted helm for tank.... its body/helm combo its darksteel heavy armor no seperate helm.... you also could do the primal extreme weekly and get ilvl 90 shield as well as weapon. though its not the best option its still an option.

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Actually we were both wrong. He should do T1-2 this week and see what drops and make his judgement after. Do not upgrade the weapon by all means, that is such a huge waste, so that is completely wrong sir. But you are right on the other account, it's been so long I forgot helm was 1st.

The next week do T2 before you buy anything again. I was absurdly unlucky on my runs and have not been able to even obtain a body or legs, so don't count on them dropping, and even if they drop, you aren't guaranteed to beat the other tank on the roll.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

has nothing to do with holding agro but more to adding to damage more overall party dps the better the run will go. being that you can get an upgrade from chest and pants very quickly because of turn 1 turn 2 dropping them... you can get helm and boots off vendor after you up grade your sword. with 450 a week you can get pieces much faster off vendor. the weapon upgrade and helm upgrade wont come till turn 5... its best bang for your buck to get weapon helm boots first.

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The boots drop on T1 as well you know...and the small Curtana upgrade at 600 myth is certainly not "bang for buck". That's absurd.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

has nothing to do with holding agro but more to adding to damage more overall party dps the better the run will go. being that you can get an upgrade from chest and pants very quickly because of turn 1 turn 2 dropping them... you can get helm and boots off vendor after you up grade your sword. with 450 a week you can get pieces much faster off vendor. the weapon upgrade and helm upgrade wont come till turn 5... its best bang for your buck to get weapon helm boots first.

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Actually you add more damage to the party upgrading from a ilvl 70 armor to ilvl 90 vs an ilvl 80 weapon to 90. Not only that, but you will stay alive much longer with the armor vs weapon because you get way more vitality.

So the gist is to get the Helm-> Armor-> Boots?

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Originally Posted by Sunah

So the gist is to get the Helm-> Armor-> Boots?

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Helm-> everything else is luck honestly. You will screw yourself one way or another because you are forced to upgrade either the ring/legs/boots/chest and the next week or so you will get one to drop probably.

It's like playing the lotto, but yes, just make sure to do T1-2 1st before making the purchase. Or just save the heck out of myths and don't buy anything for 2-3 weeks, which is actually the most efficient way to do it. But myths are like money, and burn holes in your pocket.

with 5 armor drops in the first 2 turns for pld tank its a waste to buy armor for those slots with myth... and with primal extremes droping accessories its much easier to get those now... Weapon first. Higher weapon damage=more emnity and more dps. Chest shield boots pants belt drop in the first 2 turns...

Get weapon first upgrade is turn 5
get helm first upgrade is turn 5
get gloves first upgrade is turn 4

then get the rest of the gear because its turn 1 or turn 2.

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Originally Posted by Sunah

So the gist is to get the Helm-> Armor-> Boots?

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Griever made a fairly extensive Paladin Compendium here. Can refer to it for BiS etc.

The order in which you purchase vendor items is largely up to you and whatever luck you have with coils drops. However, the Curtana Zenith is certainly not a priority.

Cool good to hear. Was so close to getting +1 on my sword and shield when i got it haha.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

with 5 armor drops in the first 2 turns for pld tank its a waste to buy armor for those slots with myth... and with primal extremes droping accessories its much easier to get those now... Weapon first. Higher weapon damage=more emnity and more dps. Chest shield boots pants belt drop in the first 2 turns...

Get weapon first upgrade is turn 5
get helm first upgrade is turn 5
get gloves first upgrade is turn 4

then get the rest of the gear because its turn 1 or turn 2.

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Scratch weapon off the top and that's actually a decent order to get them.

Sorry for the noob question. But if i get the helm what armor do i need to have? Because the DL is a helm+armor thingy.

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Originally Posted by Sunah

Sorry for the noob question. But if i get the helm what armor do i need to have? Because the DL is a helm+armor thingy.

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AK last boss:

Body:
90ME - Valor Surcoat - Vendor, Auriana in Revenant's Toll (825 Allagan Tombstones of Mythology)
90AM - Heavy Allagan Armor - Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 1
70ME - Heavy Darklight Armor (Cannot equip Head) - Vendor, Auriana in Revenant's Toll (1320 Allagan Tombstones of Philosophy)
70ME - Heavy Darksteel Armor (Cannot equip Head) - Crafted
60AE - Hoplite Tabard - Anantaboga in Amdapor Keep (Last boss)
50EM - Herklaedi (Cannot equip Hands, Legs, or Feet) - Vendor, Aelina in Revenant's Toll (5 Odin's Mantle)

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Originally Posted by Omagana

Griever made a fairly extensive Paladin Compendium here. Can refer to it for BiS etc.

The order in which you purchase vendor items is largely up to you and whatever luck you have with coils drops. However, the Curtana Zenith is certainly not a priority.

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hmmm right from that post.... VIT vs STR
Currently from the data I have gathered, VIT is all you want. This may change later in the game. STR will increase the chance of physical mitigation and generate more threat. So if it’s physical, it will give you a chance of mitigation. Chances are not reliable. Threat is nice, but a better weapon will give you more bang for your buck than stats will.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

AK last boss:

Body:
90ME - Valor Surcoat - Vendor, Auriana in Revenant's Toll (825 Allagan Tombstones of Mythology)
90AM - Heavy Allagan Armor - Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 1
70ME - Heavy Darklight Armor (Cannot equip Head) - Vendor, Auriana in Revenant's Toll (1320 Allagan Tombstones of Philosophy)
70ME - Heavy Darksteel Armor (Cannot equip Head) - Crafted
60AE - Hoplite Tabard - Anantaboga in Amdapor Keep (Last boss)
50EM - Herklaedi (Cannot equip Hands, Legs, or Feet) - Vendor, Aelina in Revenant's Toll (5 Odin's Mantle)

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Outdated info, AK/WP now have identical drops of ilvl55s.
ilvl60s drop off the 3 new 4p dungeons.

Actually THE BEST way would be to get your T1-2 done, and CT loot for the week, then make your decision.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

but a better weapon will give you more bang for your buck than stats will.

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I don't understand why you keep posting this. This is not true. Not trying to be rude.

He's not even making sense now.

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Originally Posted by Lanceton

Outdated info, AK/WP now have identical drops of ilvl55s.
ilvl60s drop off the 3 new 4p dungeons.

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Thanks for the correction.

always go full vit to strength until you're close to being fully decced out on your i90 gear. I learned the hardway and let's just say some content was a flat out pain. Also it's to be noted you can get well within the acc cap but if you're to force your self to buy anything go for anything that improves your acc

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Originally Posted by Dlewis1986

always go full vit to strength until you're close to being fully decced out on your i90 gear. I learned the hardway and let's just say some content was a flat out pain. Also it's to be noted you can get well within the acc cap but if you're to force your self to buy anything go for anything that improves your acc

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This is exactly why you get armor 1st. "bang for your buck" he states on weapon is not true, because the weapon upgrade gives like 3 vit, while an armor upgrade from i70->i90 on chest/helm is like mega crap tons of vit. Which is why I stated chest/helm.

Edit: 1 vit = 20 hp I believe. So do the math. 3 vit on weapon upgrade, or the armor which is waaaay more, like around 9-11 vit.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

This is exactly why you get armor 1st. "bang for your buck" he states on weapon is not true, because the weapon upgrade gives like 3 vit, while an armor upgrade from i70->i90 on chest/helm is like mega crap tons of vit. Which is why I stated chest/helm.

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Omagan posted a link to a guide saying weapon isnt first that armor should be first because the stats would be better then the weapon... I then posted a snip from that thread saying the weapon is the better bang for your buck.

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Originally Posted by Omagana

Griever made a fairly extensive Paladin Compendium here. Can refer to it for BiS etc.

The order in which you purchase vendor items is largely up to you and whatever luck you have with coils drops. However, the Curtana Zenith is certainly not a priority.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Actually you add more damage to the party upgrading from a ilvl 70 armor to ilvl 90 vs an ilvl 80 weapon to 90. Not only that, but you will stay alive much longer with the armor vs weapon because you get way more vitality.

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Originally Posted by Griever2003

Currently from the data I have gathered, VIT is all you want. This may change later in the game. STR will increase the chance of physical mitigation and generate more threat. So if it’s physical, it will give you a chance of mitigation. Chances are not reliable. Threat is nice, but a better weapon will give you more bang for your buck than stats will.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

Omagan posted a link to a guide saying weapon isnt first that armor should be first because the stats would be better then the weapon... I then posted a snip from that thread saying the weapon is the better bang for your buck.

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With reasoning that made no sense. The stat bonus from Curtana Zenith is tiny, literally +3 str, +4 vit, +2 parry. That is in no way worth 600 myth, you don't even get an armour bonus. Defense > Damage. You are a tank, no?

Valor gauntlets, for example, give +6 str, +6 vit, +10 parry over DL and increased defense while costing less myth than the Curtana Zenith.

This is without even discussing best in slot.

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Originally Posted by Omagana

With reasoning that made no sense. The stat bonus from Curtana Zenith is tiny, literally +3 str, +4 vit, +2 parry. That is in no way worth 600 myth, you don't even get an armour bonus. Defense > Damage. You are a tank, no?

Valor gauntlets, for example, give +6 str, +6 vit, +10 parry over DL and increased defense while costing less myth than the Curtana Zenith.

This is without even discussing best in slot.

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hey im just posting what the guy says in the thread you linked. he says the weapon is best bang for your buck over the other stats because Chance to parry chance to lower damage isnt reliable.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

hey im just posting what the guy says in the thread you linked. he says the weapon is best bang for your buck over the other stats because Chance to parry chance to lower damage isnt reliable.

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It's more about the vit + armor bonus honestly. But the str is even more, and helps you achieve higher shield block and parry cap tiers.

Reference: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/block-and-parry/

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

It's more about the vit + armor bonus honestly. But the str is even more, and helps you achieve higher shield block and parry cap tiers.

Reference: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/block-and-parry/

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like i said he refrenced that thread i was just pointing out that the thread states weapon is better bank for your buck.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

like i said he refrenced that thread i was just pointing out that the thread states weapon is better bank for your buck.

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This isn't a thread. This is a breakdown on a website of raw data on shield block and parry tiers gained through strength increase.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

This isn't a thread. This is a breakdown on a website of raw data on shield block and parry tiers gained through strength increase.

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sigh i wasnt refering to what you posted..... you guys fail at reading comprehension. I was refering to the thread he posted. that was suppose to prove that armor was better then weapon. But in the guide he linked it says that weapon is the better bang for your buck because teh stats on armor are % chance and % chance isnt really all that reliable. I was just proving a point that his thread he posted doesnt back up the point he is trying to make.

now to your post I'm all good for chart values and min/maxing but to me the OP wants to know what he should get gear wise off the vendor best item/time. since 5 pieces of armor drop from coil in turn 1 turn 2 and 3 pieces drop from turn 5 the best value best bang for your buck would to get the 3 turn 5 items first above anything else because you have a much higher chance of seeing turn 1 turn 2 pieces. Now if your FC full clears coil every week then ya what the hell get what ever you want off teh vendor. But im willing to bet he pugs turn 1 and 2 coil every week and bangs his head against turn 4 in a pug every week. If thats the case then getting his Helm Gloves weapon will be his best bet.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

hey im just posting what the guy says in the thread you linked. he says the weapon is best bang for your buck over the other stats because Chance to parry chance to lower damage isnt reliable.

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What you referenced was a comparison of VIT vs STR, i.e. where you spend your 30 points. He's saying a better weapon is worth more than spending points in strength. Then discusses how Vit is better. Nothing to do with whether Curtana zenith is a priority over armour upgrades...

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Originally Posted by Griever2003

VIT vs STR
Currently from the data I have gathered, VIT is all you want. This may change later in the game. STR will increase the chance of physical mitigation and generate more threat. So if it’s physical, it will give you a chance of mitigation. Chances are not reliable. Threat is nice, but a better weapon will give you more bang for your buck than stats will. Stacking VIT scales with abilities like Stoneskin, Lustrate, Mercy Stroke, Benediction, etc. Also there is a health generation during the fight that happens every 3 seconds based on your overall health. Larger health pools allow for a healer to ignore you and possibly resurrect someone. You are also less spikey.

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"STR will increase the chance of physical mitigation and generate more threat. So if it’s physical, it will give you a chance of mitigation. Chances are not reliable." Weapon better bang for buck than str stacking etc etc

Nothing to do with what we're discussing.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

now to your post I'm all good for chart values and min/maxing but to me the OP wants to know what he should get gear wise off the vendor best item/time. since 5 pieces of armor drop from coil in turn 1 turn 2 and 3 pieces drop from turn 5 the best value best bang for your buck would to get the 3 turn 5 items first above anything else because you have a much higher chance of seeing turn 1 turn 2 pieces. Now if your FC full clears coil every week then ya what the hell get what ever you want off teh vendor. But im willing to bet he pugs turn 1 and 2 coil every week and bangs his head against turn 4 in a pug every week. If thats the case then getting his Helm Gloves weapon will be his best bet.

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Getting the gear the fastest way is min/maxing....along with what we're talking about.

And getting the correct gear with the correct stats 1st is part of min/maxing.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

If thats the case then getting his Helm Gloves weapon will be his best bet.

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Lol so it's helm, gloves, weapon now? Page 1 you were saying weapon, helm, boots.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

It's more about the vit + armor bonus honestly. But the str is even more, and helps you achieve higher shield block and parry cap tiers.

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The most important part of upgrading is the defense bonus from higher i-level armor. Weapon adds to your damage, which isn't really something that you should have to care about as a tank, and the accessories add similar stat increases per myth tome spent as the armor but don't provide the defense boost. As such, the first thing all tanks should focus on is the left part of their character sheet.

The best priority list, as I see it, is this (it's slightly different for other classes but still very similar; they just prioritize weapon above armor):

1. Any BiS armors (so that none will be wasted; for PLD, this means hands, pants, and feet)
2. Any BiS accs (so that none will be wasted; for PLD, this means ring and wrist)
3. Any slots in which you have to wait an excessively long time to get a decent equivalent (so that you're not likely to waste them and they provide a tangible benefit; for PLD, this means helm unless you get the CT head)
4. Any slots in which you've had terrible luck upgrading (those pesky slots with i55 gear that you just *can't* get CT or Coil drops for)
5. Relic weapon, if it's actually good (Bravura is bad and you should just elect to use Dual Haken; Curtana Zenith is better than Break Blade, so it applies to PLD).

The important thing is to not waste your myth tomes and to spend them on the stuff that gives you the best bang for your buck first.

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Originally Posted by Omagana

Lol so it's helm, gloves, weapon now? Page 1 you were saying weapon, helm, boots.

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omg just because i said helm gloves weapon here... doesnt mean thats the order i just listed the 3 things you should get first..... it doesnt F'n Matter get those 3 items first before you get anything else off the vendor if you are looking for upgrades verse time fast. For me ill have full sets of both alagan and the vendor gear. so it doesnt really matter about min/maxing i can just throw the pieces on at that point to min/max. I still stand by getting weapon first then helm then gloves. or weapon first then gloves then helm it doesnt really matter.

Seeing as you're a Paladin, just follow this BiS reference when purchasing your Myth items.

I myself didn't upgrade my shield simply because I'm still praying to RNGesus for my Allagan Shield from T1. I was lucky enough to get my gloves from T4 so that's good.

In short, you'd want to spend your myth like this:

Hero's Ring of Fending -> Valor Surcoat -> Valor Coronet -> Valor Cuisses -> Hero's Bracelet -> Curtana Zenith.

If RNGesus hates you as much as he hates me, then go ahead and get Holy Shield Zenith. I still refuse to get it though as I believe in RNGesus.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

I still refuse to get it though as I believe in RNGesus.

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I've found that sacrificing a Lalafell before any coil run causes the Random Number Goddess to bless you with tank loots. Every time I've done it I've gotten at least half of the loot as tank loot.

I got my +1 relic first to help me hold aggro against +1 DPS. Made a HUGE difference. This was before Shield Oath was buffed though. Armor doesn't mean jack when you can't hold aggro against +1 relic'd DPS.