DPS check for Extreme Primals

So, just a short simple question, that I haven't found an answer to anywhere else...

I'm a SMN, and as I understand it, Omnitome (EX primal weapon) is an equally or even better weapon than Relic + 1. So now I would like to get it :)

The question is: Do I have to spend 900 myth tomes on Relic + 1, just to be able to beat the EX primals and get Omnitome ?

If that's the case, that's just wrong.... I thought I would be able to take a different route and skip relic + 1 for now, so that I could spend more tomes on armor.

Appreciate if you explain why or why not Relic + 1 is needed :)

Use a job with relic +1 to get another job's EX primal weapon.

I'm curious about this too.

One would say "it's for alts"... well, I don't run Coil with alts, so why would I want a level 90 weapon for them?

I've only done Garuda, my regular Stardust Rod seems fine. But I also use foods, potions and save my cooldowns for Suparna.

I don't think you need Relic +1 for the EM Primals as "DPS". However, you need ilvl80 wp.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

I don't think you need Relic +1 for the EM Primals as "DPS". However, you need ilvl80 wp.

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Okay... Yeah I will definitely try to do it without Relic + 1.

Right now I use Titan weapon and have ilvl 76... But I was planning on getting better gear before doing EX primals. Plus using food and potions.

This is not an alt btw :) I don't have any job that's higher, so doing it with another job is out of the question.

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Okay... Yeah I will definitely try to do it without Relic + 1.

Right now I use Titan weapon and have ilvl 76... But I was planning on getting better gear before doing EX primals. Plus using food and potions.

This is not an alt btw :) I don't have any job that's higher, so doing it with another job is out of the question.

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Yeah you should be fine, it is just Tanks who can't afford to be at lower ilvl than the DD by a huge margin. So long you are hitting the DPS check on Titan heart and killing Garuda before the 4th time the sisters shows up you will be fine.

do you have accuracy issues as summoner? otherwise +1 relic aka The Veil of Wiyu Zenith is way better then omnitome

and omnitome is ugly as hell ...

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

do you have accuracy issues as summoner? otherwise +1 relic aka The Veil of Wiyu Zenith is way better then omnitome

and omnitome is ugly as hell ...

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Yeah...

Checked around some more, and found that Zenith is the better choice in the end, and it looks much cooler :)

The problem is Accuracy, but if I get Necklace from Ultima, I should be okay after using food.... Then I go for EX primal accs and allagan legs for more accuracy.

Thanks for the answers :)

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

do you have accuracy issues as summoner? otherwise +1 relic aka The Veil of Wiyu Zenith is way better then omnitome

and omnitome is ugly as hell ...

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it's not way better. your char being seeker of the sun miqo'te compared to a duskwight elezen has a bigger impact on your damage than those 18 determination. the acc on the other hand which is the same for everyone opens up more opportunities when you gear up your char.

Be warned: even though an i80 weapon is totally fine for ex primals, you will get trolled by people. Also, plenty of e-peen enthusiasts will quote parser numbers claiming that you do low damage. They will not disclose that their parser does NOT count pet damage into dps averages. (most times they don't even realize it, or how the numbers they see are actually affecting a fight)

You're really pushing it with i76 and no +1 (in my honest opinion). It's not impossible, but makes life just a tiny bit harder, as for tanks I believe 5.7k HP should be minimum, the one that's very demanding is actually the DPS. Healers can get by as long as people don't die, thus exhausting their MP. With lower DPS you: Risk getting another WotL during heart phase, risk not killing adds in time before double plume, risk not destroying superbomb in time especially if a dps died (which they shouldn't, but let's face it, we are all humans and we lose concentration sometimes)

As for hard enrage, if the entire team goes with iLevel 76 I believe there might be a fair chance of getting him enraged (wipe earthquake I hear,never got there :P)

I'm like you, I don't really like going +1 so I guess at least you could try until you get more myth pieces.

All Primals, HM and EM are perfectly doable in iLvL 70 gear. In example full darklight + ilvl 60/70 weapon from Hard Modes or any other form. best would be from Thornmarch(king moggle mog) pre-relic.

The new weapons are more for people who want them on other jobs, not people who need one in the first place.

If you look at them you will notice that for some jobs relic +1 is better, and for others the Extreme Mode Primal Weapon is better. You should get what's best, or have one first.

Sure you can do the Extreme Modes with a relic dps, but not 4 relic dps.

To be honest though, im an il86 Paladin and I still die to this fight sometimes from double wicked wheel if it's timing is off due to low dps. So having low dps is definetely an issue. If DPS does not kill chirada fast enough Double Wicked Wheel goes off before Garuda and Suparna jump, making it hard to anticipate without a timer macro. And said timer macro is generally off by 3 or 4 seconds, still making it hard to anticipate. But if dps get's chirada low fast enough Garuda and Suparna jump before double wicked wheel and double wicked wheel 2 seconds after they return, making it easy to pop sentinel or rampart + forsight for. I have 6700+ HP and sometimes Double Wicked Wheel + melee attack immediately basically one shots me. Popping cd's for it is a necessity.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Sure you can do the Extreme Modes with a relic dps, but not 4 relic dps.

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I hear where you are coming from but I disagree. If you have 4 dps that know the fight and know how to maximize their own rotations in that fight, it can be done. The hardest part about doing a primal ex with 4 relic dps is convincing the people in your party not to worry about the extra couple mechanics you'll have to deal with. (i.e. plumes after circle bombs/landslide on titans heart or having an extra rotation with garuda's sisters while she sits at 2%)

I main black mage mage. I had this same question. I decided it was worth it to upgrade my relic to help me get the extreme weapon. I'm still on Garuda EM, but now duty finder groups have enough DPS about 90% of the time instead of 70% of the time. Upgrading your weapon is probably the best thing you can do to increase your DPS to make up for weaknesses in other party members. For example, most Ultima HM groups I join lack the DPS to kill it in time (it's actually mostly because DPS die too much if I were to be honest and not skew things), but I have been in an Ultima HM farm group that killed it before the enrage timer started (even with a couple of DPS deaths). My DPS is alright, I was even complimented on it last night, but you can't always be sure the other DPS will be good.

So this is the best answer if you want less stress and aren't clearing EM primals with a geared, skilled, static group:

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Use a job with relic +1 to get another job's EX primal weapon.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

I hear where you are coming from but I disagree.

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Like I said, it can be done, but if garuda double wicked wheel's early it's a pain. I've done it with relic dps but we had to wipe at least 10 times to adjust to the timings of having low dps, and I had to make a 30 second macro for double wicked wheel.

Really the biggest problem with garuda EM is if you take more than one melee... lol... 9/10 melee don't move for wicked wheel and they die. And with our strat we don't swap suparna off the MT, I tank garuda and suparna the whole time, the OT just stands in the back doing nothing with the spiney plume after chirada dies. That means the melee that was on chirada has to run throw tornado to DPS suparna, which is easy to do if you do it between tornado pulses on the edges of them. But then they get wicked wheeled and die, they need to run out to the ranged people, but generally don't make it.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

it's not way better. your char being seeker of the sun miqo'te compared to a duskwight elezen has a bigger impact on your damage than those 18 determination.

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what? dont get what you want

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

what? dont get what you want

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5 int racial difference does make a bigger damage difference than 18 det