Will trade sleep for the ability to cast/attack while moving. Willing to trade for heavy defense & multiple instant stuns with 10 seconds damage resistance. May trade for several instant attacks that actually do damage (definitely if they silence or bind). Will trade for a pet that heals me & teammates or the ability to instant rez & do major damage with pet. All classes have their advantages & disadvantages. Instead of looking at a specific ability & crying that it is OP, look at the entire class picture and mitigation. Even though I am a blm, I face the same chance as you of coming up against a blm or whm with sleep & those CCs impact me the same as you. I see no issue with sleep when looking at the entire picture & existing mitigations (avoidance, purify, esuna, leeches, diminishing, black drops, materia) so I will trade my sleep (& the bounty on my head that goes along with it) for any of the above - all reasonable offers will be considered.
Wanting to trade/sell sleep
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12-30-2013, 07:50 PMrealistic1Wanting to trade/sell sleep
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12-30-2013, 09:16 PMQuackley
This isn't gonna be received well. :l
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12-30-2013, 09:53 PMrealistic1Of course not, how many forum poster ever see the actual point of a post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackley
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12-30-2013, 10:50 PMRawkzor
Because nobody gets hit for 700+ non-crit Scathes, ever. Oh wait, I do. Even with over 200 Morale, I find myself asleep, slowed, or rooted for the majority of fights against SMN+BLM. It's not just me. BLM has a lot more power than you think, if you want "more instant cast abilities" and the ability to cast while moving. Not to mention 3 different forms of CC, with Heavy, Bind, and Sleep. Maybe you're not using your procs right, or sprinting enough?
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12-30-2013, 11:11 PMrealistic1I am, and of course, you missed the actual point of the post.Quote:
Maybe you're not using your procs right, or sprinting enough?
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12-31-2013, 01:22 AMNeninDo you mean Scathe? It won't 'hit' you for 700+ unless they have Raging Strikes up, a HQ Mega-Int Pot, and you've been hit by Full Swing. Depending on the BLM's gear you might also need Blood For Blood up or Phantom Dart. Even then it only has a 20% chance to hit that hard (100 potency normally, 200 potency 20% of the time). With all those buffs and debuffs Scathe is the least of your worries though. A hardcasted Flare + instant Fire III will deal anywhere from 3k to 6k+ in the same situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawkzor
To the OP, BLMs would still be focused down even if they didn't have Sleep for precisely that ^ reason. They could remove Sleep, Freeze, Blizzard, and Blizzard II and you'd still see BLM>SMN>Healer>... kill orders. A BLM left alone can quickly build up the highest spike damage of any job/class and BLM damage suffers the most from spell interruption so it's a no-brainer.
BLM was probably meant to be a glass cannon and it plays like one. We don't have much in the way of defensive abilities but having Sprint and Aetherial Manipulation makes the situation tenable. As a final note, Sleep doesn't really affect BLMs the same way it does others because BLM is almost always the priority kill target. You CAN chain sleep a BLM but people very rarely do. -
12-31-2013, 01:30 AMstudionevermore1
I think this could start a flame war of epic proportions
http://img.pandawhale.com/27717-Zeld...d-gif-LwhD.gif -
12-31-2013, 01:52 AMRawkzor
@Nenin, Yes, I did mean Scathe. I forgot what it was called at the moment I was typing. I realize it only has a potency of 100, but also caster weapons have far more damage on them. I have seen SMNs hit for almost 2k with crits. It's more than possible for a Scathe to hit for 700 with buffs. You don't need food+pots+buffs+enemy debuffs to land that much damage. The point was that BLM does have a lot, and the OP clearly isn't making use of their tools.
I agree with all of the other things you said. On a side note, if the Defense / magic defense added by Protect even affects damage taken in PvP, SCHs protect doesn't add M.Def, so there's that to factor in as well. -
12-31-2013, 02:18 AMrealistic1Quote:
The difference being, you are a BLM, so your team will always have it.
The discussion is not whether a BLM has sleep, it is that sleep is not OP. I do not have one advantage over you regarding how the CC being discussed impacts me and chances are, there will be a sleep on the opposite team- 50% chance on heals plus blm class. We are discussing whether or not the CC is too OP for game, not who has it.
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Sleep and Weight are two of the only status effects that last longer than 12 seconds, and even really call for the reduced cooldown on Purify.
Great, then I would recommend saving purify for these two things (I would prioritize sleep) and not wasting it on issues that do not really call for it. -
12-31-2013, 02:21 AMrealistic1Quote:
If you get Swiftcast Sleeped, Purify out of it, and get put to sleep again, you're still asleep for 15 seconds.
All healers have a sleep removal so 15 seconds is not the only option. Most of the time I have sleep readily removed by pug healers. I can honestly say that in almost 200 matches I have never had a 30 sec cc and I remember less full 15 sec CCs than I can count on one hand. Chalk this up to luck of the good healers in all my pugs, skill, or sleep not being OP. As you know, I side with the latter. Sleep has never been a big issue for me even though I am often the target of enemy sleeps due to my CC ability. The only time I am not a priority on sleeps is when I am a priority for kill which does happen quite often. -
12-31-2013, 02:23 AMrealistic1Quote:
Not to mention the instant cast AoE sleep that BLM can take as a PvP skill. 15 more seconds of sleep and the next sleep is still 15 seconds.
No, this starts out at 10 sec and I believe it counts toward sleep diminishings.
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Try all you want to defend it, but it doesn't matter if it can be on both sides of the fight, it's still broken. Crowd control abilities that can turn a 4v4 into a 4v1 for nearly a minute should not go unchecked
If your entire group or even 3 of you are all getting CC’d for a minute, there are much bigger things you and your group should be focused on and worried about with your pvp. -
12-31-2013, 02:36 AMrealistic1Quote:
The point was that BLM does have a lot, and the OP clearly isn't making use of their tools.
Never once did I state that BLMs do not have enough but this is quite subjective isn’t it? The point of my post is that EVERY class has advantages & disadvantages that we can pick apart. Sleep is one ability specific to my class but it is not OP. You might feel fine about your class but if I started claiming one of your primary ability was OP & wanted to nerf or take it away, how would you feel about your class? Now before you answer that, let me suggest that anything other than 'ok' will be viewed as you not thinking you have a lot already or you not making use of your other tools. As stated previously, I would trade my sleep in for any of the abilities I mentioned above from other classes. In fact, I might just be willing to trade it in to not have to listen to all the unjustified whining. -
12-31-2013, 02:54 AMrealistic1I agree somewhat with the label (more pve than pvp) and this being one reason we likely have sleep.Quote:
BLM was probably meant to be a glass cannon and it plays like one.
One or the other- sleep or kill but you are probably right, I am the kill target a little more than the sleep target. Some matches heals is kill target and I am sleep target, others I am the kill focus. Either way, I have had my share of matches against classes with sleep and have been the focus and do not see an OP issue.Quote:
As a final note, Sleep doesn't really affect BLMs the same way it does others because BLM is almost always the priority kill target. You CAN chain sleep a BLM but people very rarely do.
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12-31-2013, 02:58 AMQCrimson
wrong thread !
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12-31-2013, 07:20 AMRawkzorMulti-wrong. BLM can pop it at the start of a fight, put everyone in range to sleep, and force a group to waste Purify, or wait 10 seconds and watch their teammates die. If you pop Purify, the next sleep on you is 15 seconds. Meaning with both WHM and BLM on a team, they can both Swiftcast sleep/repose to put the healer and another back to sleep for 15 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by realistic1
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12-31-2013, 07:23 AMRawkzor
Sleep simple does not need to last as long as it does. Half a minute is far too much time for the initial duration of a crowd control effect the prevents all action. No other debuff lasts nearly as long.
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12-31-2013, 08:04 AMrealistic1Quote:
Multi-wrong. BLM can pop it at the start of a fight, put everyone in range to sleep
Wait, so everyone will come running to me in a neat tight group and get in range for me to do this? Awesome! You have mentioned before that BLM's CC's were unfair for sleeping an entire team but I had no clue how you were managing this as it never happens in my matches. My dang uncooperative opponents use LOS, avoid grouping, and watch their distance.
Hmmm think this is actually what purify is intended for- sleep and other CCs and effects so not certain I would call it a waste? Or perhaps I am misunderstanding and the waste you are referring to is the fact that your group was forced to use purify early due to running together in a group within range of a sleep wielding class?Quote:
and force a group to waste Purify
Hmmm with swiftcast down and ppl beating on me with stuns and interrupts, likely will be that 10 sec night wing. Oh wait, I forgot that your group is all going to group for me to sleep so I will have zero ppl on me because they all ran mid for me in a nice clump right? Ok, are they all popping purify at the exact same time? If so, I will use night wing first (10 seconds) so that my second sleep is actually 15 seconds- healer has agreed to stay grouped with the rest for sleep correct? As long as they were so kind to all group for sleep, could we also ask that they all use purify at the same time (countdown would be awesome) and stay together so I can resleep the same group mid in the same clump they arranged themselves in for me in the beginning? This would be awesome!Quote:
If you pop Purify, the next sleep on you is 15 seconds.
Wait! Ok, now we have a whm and blm together each time? If I am not mistaken, I already slept your entire neatly arranged group twice so if I am now sleeping just the heals and 1 dps (I am assuming they will agree to stand next to each other for this too and no one will try to silence or stun my long cast), we are down to 7 seconds at the most. Less if I have a whm in my group and they were confused on our purify countdown and accidently applied sleep over mine.Quote:
Meaning with both WHM and BLM on a team, they can both Swiftcast sleep/repose to put the healer and another back to sleep for 15 seconds
Do you think it would be too much to ask to have the remaining survivors all line up again after diminishings/immunity to start over as this would be most awesome- thanks! -
12-31-2013, 02:43 PMRawkzor
I'm tired of your terrible arguments. Goodbye.