So ever since I've hit level 50, every 8-man content has been one Tank (who is usually overgeared) stealing the show. Being the off-tank is legitimately like being in the friend-zone. You're perfectly capable of being a good boyfriend, but there's this one guy you can't get rid off who always takes the girl's heart. And when the bad guy breaks up with her, you're the one that has to comfort her.
Even a lot of Party Finder groups are set for 1 Tank and 5 DPS. Should SE focus on making more 8-man content multi-tank friendly?
What Content NEEDS Two Tanks?
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12-30-2013, 08:34 AMJubez187What Content NEEDS Two Tanks?
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12-30-2013, 08:37 AMRaagnar
Coil turn 2, ultima hard mode, and garuda ex all have tank swap mechanics. if you don't swap at certain points youll die
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12-30-2013, 08:41 AMJubez187Nice! I'm excited to check those battles out. Also a quick question, in Ifrit HM isn't it ultimately better for the Paladin to MT over a warrior? If Pacify does work on eruption, then you're basically never going to let one through (he'll use eruption immediately once the Pacification ends, so you pretty much have a timer on it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Raagnar
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12-30-2013, 08:45 AMRaagnar
PLD don't use shield swipe on him they use shield bash. its a stun used on the GCD, other job stun have their own CD timer so pld can stun eruption better then war. but I think they added stun resistance to ifrit in 2.1 so im not sure anymore (haven't tried it since the patch)
I would also like to add its useful to have an offtank on king mog imo. keep the war and pld moogle away from everyone, they use aoe a lot. -
12-30-2013, 08:51 AMJubez187Okay I'm level 50 I know what shield bash is. I'm just saying, in theory, using 1 Shield Swipe silences him for 6 seconds, and he'll have either Plume or Eruption queued up for when it ends. So right when the Pac ends, you'll get a surefire Shield Bash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raagnar
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12-30-2013, 08:51 AMNiytshade
Ifrit has stun resistance since before this patch. Yes usually the pld is on stun duty since their stun is more readily available than the warriors. Also most groups like 2 tanks in Garuda HM to hold one of the sisters off to the side while the dps focus down the other. Can it be done without a second tank? Yeah but only if your healers are uber awesome :D
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12-30-2013, 08:55 AMRaagnarI guess im not sure why you are even using pacify, you are pointing out the problem with it. and I know there was stun resist before but I heard they added a shorter timer to it building. pre patch you could time it so you never get stun resist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
Also I was referring to garuda ex spiney plume. if mt gets 3 stacks he dies so ot usually takes it at 2, but I suppose anyone could. OP asked about offtank and I was just naming a few that require it. -
12-30-2013, 08:55 AMpeaches
So far all 8 man content I've played requires 2 tanks in 2.1. Ultima, Garuda Ex and Titan Ex. We use 2 tanks for moogle, not sure if its 100% required though.
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12-30-2013, 09:07 AMJubez187You would use Pacify for about 3 reasons (assuming it works): 1. He can't use any skills during the six seconds. 2. Different DR than Stun. 3. ninety-nine percent chance that he will use an ability once it is over, this gives you time to prime yourself for a sure-fire cancel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raagnar
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12-30-2013, 09:23 AMBaci
Pacification usually works like this: If it can be applied to a Boss, it wont interrupt the skills/important skills or the Pacification debuff will just be resisted.
Also you can only use Shield Swipe after an succesfull Block -> makes it unreliable.
The need for 2 Tanks would be Turn 1,2,4 the new Extreme Modes Garuda, Titan, Ifrit. King Mog could be maybe outgeared, for lower Itemlevel groups most likely 2 Tanks. -
12-30-2013, 10:12 AMKal-El
Coil requires 2 tanks for the majority of the content. HM Primals can be solo tanked but Ex Primals require 2 tanks.
If you're over geared you can solo heal a lot as well so it's not just limited to tanks. -
12-30-2013, 10:14 AMVactus
All the 2.0 HM primals can be solo tanked. PLD for Ifrit, either tank type can do Garuda. Titan never needed two tanks.
Garuda Ex can be solo tanked (there is a video) but you have to out gear it so bad it isn't even funny. Titan and Ifrit Ex, Ultima and Mog need two tanks. Coil has plenty of two tank scenarios. -
12-30-2013, 11:08 AMLeiron
You could solo tank Ifrit as a WAR.
If you had a dragoon they could help with stuns given they have like 3 of them. -
12-30-2013, 11:17 AMDartFx
T1 and T2 can be done with 1 tank.
I believe the only things requiring 2 tanks atm are T4, Extreme modes and Ultima. Not sure about King Mog.
So that leaves you with a grand total of: 5 things(Not including CT since you're forced to take 2 tanks in there) -
12-30-2013, 11:21 AMVactusI keep seeing this around about T1. My question is how? Kite method when they combine? Also adds on ADS T1? Honest question no sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by DartFx
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12-30-2013, 11:59 AMProxyTooMuchShield swipe interrupts Ifrit's radiant plumes just fine (not sure about eruption, but potentially that, too), and it won't cause any stun resistance build-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baci
I'm guessing just slow dps/feed slimes until they split so the tank builds up a lot of enmity, then have him run around in a big circle. At 8 stacks, hoodwink does about 6000 damage to a tank, which is possible to overgear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vactus
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12-30-2013, 02:41 PMLeiron
Technically Kitru is right, it doesn't "interrupt" it just "cancels".
The cast is performed but it can't finish so you get no LB from it being successful stopped. -
12-30-2013, 03:04 PMTat_Alaskar
Turn 2 just need 1 tank if your doing the 1 click strategy, But if your doing that I think going in with 3 healers and the rest DPS with no tank is also possible depending on your healers, harder but might be possible. Since Final ADS would just Aoe when the charge is complete.
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12-30-2013, 05:51 PMYunnie
I can't imaging turn 4 being solo tank, it's probably possible, but I doubt it due to the knights and soldiers spawning so far away. And in the final phase, 2x dreads, a rook, a knight and soldier... Idk if 1 tank could do it.
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12-30-2013, 08:26 PMProxyTooMuchIf they're bringing 1 extra dps instead of a second tank, and they're overgeared, the first dread (along with knight/soldier) will likely be dead or very close to it before the second drops. Hardest part is definitely going to be trying to keep the knights/soldiers under control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunnie
The first time I downed turn 4 a few months ago (back when everyone was still in darklight), we had a tank go down in the middle of the last wave. The add tank was holding a dread (fed bugs x 2) and two knights all at the same time for about 20 seconds. It's definitely doable nowadays with the amount of gear going around. -
12-30-2013, 08:56 PMContemporary
The only content that requires two tanks would be the new 2.1 Extreme Modes + Ultima HM.
Sadly, you can out gear every single Turn in Coil (Even Turn 5, there are videos all over Youtube). -
12-30-2013, 08:58 PMMaelwysCrystal Tower (No odd setups allowed, hee!), Extreme Mode Primals (Definitely Garuda anyway!). And usually King Moggle (Boss on MT, WAR/PLD on OT) and HM Ultima (Aggro trading for debuff stacks).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
The Entirity of Coil has been done with One Tank - it's pretty easy for Turn 2 if you're using the 0Click method on the final boss. For Turns 1 and 4 it's a lot trickier.
Honestly Turn 2 and HM Ultima's "Normal" methods (Aggro trading) are probably the only situations where I've felt there was no designated MT/OT and both tanks were reasonably equal.
That said, I enjoy OTing certain content like Turn 4. Proper add-handling can take more skill than just keeping your Face in front of a Boss's Fists. -
12-30-2013, 11:13 PMLucavernTurn 1 doesn't require 2 tanks. Overgeared tank can let them remerge right away and kite for duration of fight. DPS has to watch threat and tank needs to be good at mobile threat-gen without getting in melee range, but its doable. Our off-tank was restarting router right before Cad, and we decided to try anyways. Ended up beating it right about same time he came back, laughing while he was outside the room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baci
Turn 1 ADS may require 2 tanks, but I think an over-geared dps can tank the adds. Never tried, but I think its possible. Also, turn 2 only needs 1 tank if you use the enrage method. -
12-30-2013, 11:43 PMGamemakoCT only really needs three of the six, but you can't queue with anything but 2 per group / 6 total. First room needs only 1, second room needs only 1, third room needs only 1, bone dragon needs only 1, Atomos needs none at all, Thanatos needs three, voidsent needs three, Behemoth needs two, Acheron needs one. GKMMXII needs one, Garuda EM needs one. Dunno about other EM primals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelwys
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12-31-2013, 12:23 AMLucavernTitan and Ifrit currently need 2, as they have a stacking debuff that increases the damage taken by the tank. It might be possible to outgear this eventually, but I don't see it happening at present. Titan's stacks fall off on occassion, I believe based on DPS-speed. Not sure how adds would work, but I think a dps might be able to manage them. Ifrit might also be really RNG-based with 1-tank, as from my experience the tethers during nail ended up targetting a healer and dps. This could become extremely painful if the tethered healer was also the Searing Wind carrier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamemako
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12-31-2013, 12:28 AMMaelwysFor CT I was referring to the queue mechanics more than the fights, but it's probably worth pointing out that I've held aggro on Thanatos right through the entire fight (not by choice) several times... so it's definitely doable with one tank, just a bit trickier since competent DPS will peel him off you eventually. I hadn't seen that Garuda video before... a lot of the newer endgame content seems to have built-in Tankswapping mechanics (Ultima inflicts stacks at regular intervals, Titan inflicts them for the Table Flips IIRC, and I'm sure Ifrit is much the same) but it wouldn't surprise me if certain groups find a way around them via overgearing and/or buffing so much that they avoid receiving the stacks... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Gamemako
I suppose once you reach a certain level of skill and party makeup specialisation you could make pretty much the same point about not "needing" DPS classes for certain content... or even Healers :) -
12-31-2013, 01:12 AMSpookyGhostHonestly, the overgeared DPS would be better off tanking ADS lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Lucavern
But yeah, all of Coil CAN be done with 1 tank. Turn 2 being the only exception if you don't want to cheese it with the enrage... though I think it's still possible with SSing the stacks. Never tried it, though.
Garuda EX can be done with 1 tank, but I don't think Titan EX or Ifrit EX can be done without 2 tanks. Same for Ultima HM I imagine (but I haven't touched Ultima yet). -
12-31-2013, 01:23 AMZoomieCheese it with the enrage? I'm not familiar.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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12-31-2013, 01:31 AMwhiskeybravo
I don't think you can single tank Ultima HM. Even if DPS could technically survive through a couple of stacks, they have no Provoke to peel hate of MT. Any amount of gear going to let you eat over 15,000 damage? I don't see how it would work unless MT just focuses on holding on to hate by a thread.
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12-31-2013, 01:49 AMGamemakoTick timer down to zero, let it enrage. Basically starts hammering everyone for 3500 damage a shot, but you can just spamheal through that much damage and kill the ADS without dealing with any mechanics at all. When everybody is overgeared, it's an easy way to avoid all coordination needs and just zerg the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoomie
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12-31-2013, 01:52 AMZoomielol, that sounds hilarious. Gonna have to give that one a go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamemako
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01-01-2014, 06:47 PMViridianaThis just got posted over in the Dungeons forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucavern