Just wanted to point this out...

I hate seeing a THM or a ARCHER tanking.. Like really. A archer tanking Great Buffalo? Cooommme on. Im really hoping for this "Skillful Play" will work out. or atleast gimp THM skills and make some people cry. XD

:mad: I want new content.

well, i do see archers tanking, but only when they buff too much for a weapon skill XD otherwise i've never seen an archer tanking because they want to tank.
As thm myself instead, we can tank easly only dodore right now, firm convinction is been adjusted from a while. I don't see the problem tanking as a mage thou, with the right setup was possible in ffxi too. Rdm o blu tanking was possible and very fun too.
The real thing should be:
1)tanks should be obliusly the main choise, and with the new algorithms for enmity generation incoming the problem should be solved. for damage mitigation abilities we should be ok, maybe shield should stand up a little more (and adjust animation) or maybe even be automatic.
2)a mage could have tanking capability, sacrifing damage mitigation (aka a limited tank, maybe for weak adds) BUT it should't be an healer. Let's say, if SE will design cnj like a pure healer, it don't need tanking abilities.Else, if thm would end like a enfebleer/factotum like rdm, it could have some tanking abilities
3)Some hybrid dd/tank as marauder (or evasion tank like pugilist) still could have room BUT pure damage dealers like archer should be totally uncapable of tanking. Not saying they should be oneshotted at the first aoe, but they should' be allowed to tank anything serius

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ennvy

I hate seeing a THM or a ARCHER tanking.. Like really. A archer tanking Great Buffalo? Cooommme on. Im really hoping for this "Skillful Play" will work out. or atleast gimp THM skills and make some people cry. XD

:mad: I want new content.

---

Why do you hate it so bad? Why do you care?

It is kindof sad. Archer's actually just as good a tank as marauder or pug. It's just that we all refuse to believe it because it sounds so utterly ridiculous, so no one designs their archers to take hits and the healers refuse to recognise archers getting hit as anything but an accident that's not their fault.

I've been saying this for months, people are only going to get more bold with thauma and archer as far as disproving what the other jobs' fanboys claim they can't do. Those two jobs are grossly imbalanced.

People who say the phrase "glass cannon" need to be backhanded. Archer's defensive capabilities are ridiculous to be honest. They actually can take a hit just as well as a pug, and their power mitigates a ton of damage because DEAD things stop ATTACKING.

As a 35 archer I could take down a R50 Qiqirn and Kobold and take less damage than on my 40 marauder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neptune

Why do you hate it so bad? Why do you care?

---

Its just stupid. I feel bad for my GLD who wanna tank and see a archer tanking GREAT BUFFLO. Like I said in another post. "Hey send in the medic first, since he can patch himself" And I do care cause there no real fun in the game like that. You must care since you reply to the post.

you don't wanna see Thaumaturge tank, but you want Goldsmith tank? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

you don't wanna see Thaumaturge tank, but you want Goldsmith tank? :D

---

badum tsss

I agreed with this way back when Peregrine got flamed up and down for suggesting that ARC was overpowered, and something needed to happen to balance and distinguish classes from one another, lest the game become Archer Fantasy XIV (not that it hasn't already).

Sure I can tank and do damage with my PUG, but compared to an archer? Forget about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ennvy

Its just stupid. I feel bad for my GLD who wanna tank and see a archer tanking GREAT BUFFLO. Like I said in another post. "Hey send in the medic first, since he can patch himself" And I do care cause there no real fun in the game like that. You must care since you reply to the post.

---

For the fight you're talking about we used an ARC because that is what we had in the group. I'm of the opinion that if it works, use it. Who cares if the strategy is used by everyone else on the server or not. If an arc can tank successfully, let them do it.

Let's say you're in a bar fight with a bigger dude, like really big.Would you only use your fists because that's what's fair? I wouldn't. I'm picking up anything that's not nailed down, because that's how I'll win. Same strategy here.

oh hey it's ANOTHER THM and ARC thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isaaru

oh hey it's ANOTHER THM and ARC thread.

---

Oh hey. ANOTHER same comment.

Hasnt every post been duplicate alot already? If we had new stuff to talk about we would XD lol

yeah you can talk about this all you want, it should just be confined to 1 thread instead of flooding general discussion with new topics everyday all about the same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evangela

you don't wanna see Thaumaturge tank, but you want Goldsmith tank? :D

---

No Mercy lol :p You know what it actually means XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isaaru

oh hey it's ANOTHER THM and ARC thread.

---

Hey, these are the concerns. If SE would address them, maybe we wouldn't feel the need to repost.

Instead we get auto-attack. GAME FIXED.

Yeah and these concerns have been posted many times before this thread. Fixes take time especially when a dev team is revamped and they have to look through 5 years of work and then make their fixes. This is one thing most people don't realize. Look at the chart in letter XI, they are well aware of the issues regarding current classes and are working on fixing them.

EDIT: I'm assuming your comment on auto-attack is sarcastic, but actually auto-attack can easily be a major fix for ARC overly high damage output seeing how the stamina gauge is going to be removed and nobody knows how multishot is going to work. Again, like I said read the chart in letter XI then you'll actually know what they're doing with the game. If you reply with "it's taking too long" please re-read my post before the edited in comment.

Crap, Dont take my multishot NOoooo ><
And Im not going to ever post on a thread that was made like 2months ago and look for it. That just dumb.
And half the time, some of the post are book story long. Keep it simple, Short, Sweet.

EDIT: Instead of making another post, Ill just say what I want here.
"And when we find that post from several months ago and reply to it, we get accused of necroposting.

You can't win the game of forumzz" Sooo True Eekiki

And when we find that post from several months ago and reply to it, we get accused of necroposting.

You can't win the game of forumzz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

For the fight you're talking about we used an ARC because that is what we had in the group. I'm of the opinion that if it works, use it. Who cares if the strategy is used by everyone else on the server or not. If an arc can tank successfully, let them do it.

Let's say you're in a bar fight with a bigger dude, like really big.Would you only use your fists because that's what's fair? I wouldn't. I'm picking up anything that's not nailed down, because that's how I'll win. Same strategy here.

---

Hiya Molly!

It was your team we noticed doing this. Our gld was bummed by it -- asking what's the point of his class if an archer can tank with THM abilities. I dont think anyone was criticizing your folks from doing it as it does work...moreso that it can be done in the first place. :D

Definitely some balance issues to work out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ennvy

I hate seeing a THM or a ARCHER tanking.. Like really. A archer tanking Great Buffalo? Cooommme on. Im really hoping for this "Skillful Play" will work out. or atleast gimp THM skills and make some people cry. XD

:mad: I want new content.

---

Can't put new content in until the battle system is released....content means killing shit, if you have a battle system that isn't what you want, you can't just add content, it has to work with the algorithms and math from the battle system....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drogyn

Hiya Molly!

It was your team we noticed doing this. Our gld was bummed by it -- asking what's the point of his class if an archer can tank with THM abilities. I dont think anyone was criticizing your folks from doing it as it does work...moreso that it can be done in the first place. :D

Definitely some balance issues to work out.

---

His class is there to make me some rings, of course. >_>

Hell the only reason I tanked on Archer is that I had roughly 700 more HP than I did on THM. And using nexattack buffs generates stupid hate. All about gaming the system (or thinking inside the box as I call it, exploring the basic "why"s of a given code/ruleset) until they change it. I don't play chess like I play checkers after all :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eekiki

badum tsss

I agreed with this way back when Peregrine got flamed up and down for suggesting that ARC was overpowered, and something needed to happen to balance and distinguish classes from one another, lest the game become Archer Fantasy XIV (not that it hasn't already).

Sure I can tank and do damage with my PUG, but compared to an archer? Forget about it.

---

If you think it's bad now, wait until the devs throw in a little stress into the game. It's already started to snowball. Two powerful jobs stay powerful. The players get bolder and bolder in testing the power of those jobs. Jobs that aren't involved try to posture that they're good in response to not getting as much attention as they used to. This comes across as lolsy to those two jobs in power, so they start to make fun of a glad's uselessness and a mrd's unreliability. The jobs in power start eliminating the jobs without power just to make a point--that those jobs have no real use.

It becomes a who'se right and who'se wrong issue, and at that point thaumaturges and archers will just pwn the other jobs and prove them wrong out of spite.

Same thing happened in XI.
The first time you get together a group of archers, it's not to spite gladiators. It's just to see how it goes.
It goes phenomenally.
The second time you get together a group of archers, it's to reproduce that success you didn't get any other way.
At this point gladiators start protesting. They start posturing that they're great and that archers suck.
At that point it's personal, and it's over.
The next archer party is just to spite that foolish gladiator for ever thinking he was useful to anyone.

Horrible things are about to happen all over again.

Again the steps are:
Imbalance is present
It isn't corrected
Players test the extent of the imbalance
And grow accustomed to its successes
Which draws protests from those not included
Fanboys of a job give favored jobs opportunity to strawman the entire unwanted job as even more unwanted.
They stop involving 2nd class jobs out of a new principle and to teach them a lesson.
The 2nd class jobs sit in town, having lost the argument that they were useful when they never had a chance.

They will say,
"I don't have anything against Gladiators, just ones that think they're useful."
"Hey I didn't make marauder gimp, I just play the game the way it's designed."

Only thing to stop that from happening is to balance the jobs.

make positioning matter for archer and the problem is fix, i liked how in the fxi the ranger had to find the spot where his ACC and DMG output was ideal, i played like this until like lat week when a ls buddy told me that i didnt need to be so far im like what really?? thats stoopid!, after that my arc became less fun to play with :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eekiki

And when we find that post from several months ago and reply to it, we get accused of necroposting.

---

Actually, you wouldn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

make positioning matter for archer and the problem is fix, i liked how in the fxi the ranger had to find the spot where his ACC and DMG output was ideal, i played like this until like lat week when a ls buddy told me that i didnt need to be so far im like what really?? thats stoopid!, after that my arc became less fun to play with :(

---

I completely forgot about this, but yes... that was/is a great idea for balancing.

Wall of text from Peregrine regarding XI's history comparing it to this game when he has no clue what is being worked on for this game. Classic.

EDIT: Might as well be on topic if this thread is going to be here... I agree with the positioning for ARC it would provide a very good regulation to prevent the tanking from Archers.

Yep, I was able to solo the Nest Commander as a rank 30 thaumaturge, something my Linkshell told me couldn't be done.

And it was my highest combat class at the time, so I was only using THM skills too.

/stretch

*waits for smugness to get blasted by the battle-system overhaul*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ennvy

Its just stupid. I feel bad for my GLD who wanna tank and see a archer tanking GREAT BUFFLO. Like I said in another post. "Hey send in the medic first, since he can patch himself" And I do care cause there no real fun in the game like that. You must care since you reply to the post.

---

Looks to me you are bothered more by what others can do, instead of being bothered by what you can not do. Least you chose your name right.

I think the issues the OP has will be corrected with the coming patches, things like more definition to each weapon and what seems to be a major overhaul to the abilities for each weapon.

Any class can tank ANYTHING right now it's not just thm and arc exclusive. It's because you can sub any defensive ability possible from defender II to emulate to rampart. Casters even get deflection + aegis boon on top of that.

Toss in heals that restore anywhere from 40-70% of your health depending on job and you have ezmode fail.

I would like to see something that doesn't involve Ctrl+C.

You're soooo gonna wait for the Battle System changes before talking about this argument =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radaghast

Any class can tank ANYTHING right now it's not just thm and arc exclusive. It's because you can sub any defensive ability possible from defender II to emulate to rampart. Casters even get deflection + aegis boon on top of that.

Toss in heals that restore anywhere from 40-70% of your health depending on job and you have ezmode fail.

---

I agree with you, but there is an inherent problem with this argument.

Gladiator (to my knowledge) isn't exactly built to do anything ELSE. MRD & PUG are arguably pseudo-tank damage dealers, but Gladiator doesn't really keep up with even their damage very well. So Gladiator ends up with the short end of the stick no matter what. There's nothing on the books that says "Gladiator is a tank" but aside from being a solo- machine (when augmented with THM abilities, like a Red Mage in XI) what would you do with it in party play?

I don't want to see Archer & Thaum nerfed too hard, but there is an imbalance. I'd rather see every class boosted to their level of efficiency than cut the legs out from jobs that are actually fun to play - but SE historically does that instead of boost other classes. That's just me, though.

I love playing THM & Archer. They're the two jobs that actually are fun to play because they are powerful and it takes skill to play them to their full potential. Playing Gladiator to its full potential (keeping enmity focused on you, which soaks up all your stamina) isn't as fun for me. It's hopefully all balanced out in the new battle system. We'll see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renshi

You're soooo gonna wait for the Battle System changes before talking about this argument =)

---

Of course. The laws of physics will be changing within the next few weeks anyway. ^_^

Nerf archer and thm, and get rid of the shitty armory system and all is solved. Why are mrd and lnc casting cure 3 anyways ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radaghast

Any class can tank ANYTHING right now it's not just thm and arc exclusive. It's because you can sub any defensive ability possible from defender II to emulate to rampart. Casters even get deflection + aegis boon on top of that.

Toss in heals that restore anywhere from 40-70% of your health depending on job and you have ezmode fail.

---

that's the key. what class cannot be the tank against the mob? the game is in easymode is why they can do this not so much as them being great.

I dont see why this is surprising or upsetting. The game was designed so that you could pick up any weapon and fill a role you want to by picking the right abilities. A tanking archer is a perfect example of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volsung

I dont see why this is surprising or upsetting. The game was designed so that you could pick up any weapon and fill a role you want to by picking the right abilities. A tanking archer is a perfect example of that.

---

This is what I've been saying for months yet my ranged DD gladiator setup gets no respect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volsung

I dont see why this is surprising or upsetting. The game was designed so that you could pick up any weapon and fill a role you want to by picking the right abilities. A tanking archer is a perfect example of that.

---

This game has a class system for a reason. This isn't Final Fantasy 8 where everyone is the same. There are supposed to be class-defined roles in this game. The only reason an archer could tank right now is because the game is completely broken. I seriously hope people don't get upset when it gets fixed and you have to start using actual tanks for things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punxsutawney

Nerf archer and thm, and get rid of the shitty armory system and all is solved. Why are mrd and lnc casting cure 3 anyways ?

---

Agreed. Mixing abilities makes it fun but using an r48 or r50 ability from another class is taking it too far (they've hinted at restrictions...let us hope). XI you could do this but only to the subjob level. I don't see why that couldn't be done here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isaaru

Wall of text from Peregrine regarding XI's history comparing it to this game when he has no clue what is being worked on for this game. Classic.

EDIT: Might as well be on topic if this thread is going to be here... I agree with the positioning for ARC it would provide a very good regulation to prevent the tanking from Archers.

---

I know your nerf is being worked on, archer! Whether it's relative boost of the other classes or a hearty hammer to the OP job, it's no longer something you can pretend you're not about to get, so you can put the posture away. Too late.

It's coming.